X-Men: Apocalypse - May 27, 2016

[jye4ever]

Is Luke's forgiveness of Vader, and the love shown toward him at his funeral pyre by the Ewoks and whatnot, more acceptable? Because Vader wasn't a passive onlooker in the terrible deeds of the Empire (who killed a lot more than Magneto did). To me, that's a similar thing. Had Vader lived on, I don't think he would have been tried and executed. Or treated as a pariah by Luke and pals.

For the purpose of the narrative in a fictional fantasy tale, I think it can and does sometimes work. I'm assuming we'll see more of the same with Kylo Ren when all is said and done.

Vader did get off easy, he got to become a happy ghost but who was going to arrest and prosecute him anyways, the legitimate government was Palpatine.

But in ways he also payed for his brain washed sins though.

His wife died. He was burned alive. His son lost his hand. He never got to know his kids.

Magneto lost his wife and kid sure but he went and had tea after his atrocities and his son is alive and looks up to him.

 

[a-dev]

Is Luke's forgiveness of Vader, and the love shown toward him at his funeral pyre by the Ewoks and whatnot, more acceptable? Because Vader wasn't a passive onlooker in the terrible deeds of the Empire (who killed a lot more than Magneto did). To me, that's a similar thing. Had Vader lived on, I don't think he would have been tried and executed. Or treated as a pariah by Luke and pals.

For the purpose of the narrative in a fictional fantasy tale, I think it can and does sometimes work. I'm assuming we'll see more of the same with Kylo Ren when all is said and done.

I've brought that one up before myself. I never thought of it while watching the OT as a child but it struck me in more recent years that if we were to take Star Wars seriously there really should be no forgiveness for Vader - even less possibility for it if you take the PT into account where he personally slaughters kiddies.

I guess that same suspension of disbelief is what they're going for with this. It's troublesome though - these films are trying to elevate themselves by knowingly drawing parallels with certain real-life civil rights struggles and yet when they have a morally conflicted character going off the handle and potentially killing millions....you're supposed to not draw upon real-life reactions of horror and condemnation at those who carry out atrocities, you're supposed to say ''it's just a movie''. Can you have it both ways? I guess they always have. As RIDDICK said, Magneto made Charles almost kill every non-mutant with his mind in X-Men 2 - it just didn't happen to be successful. But there has definitely been massive death this time so the issue is more noticeable.

 

[karamazov80]

Comic Apoc is extremely powerful, able to control his molecules and possessing some psychic powers, though X-Factor were able to beat him without assistance (apart from that of Archangel, if that counts) early on. I honestly haven't followed him much past that.

Regarding Vader, his grandson looks up to him! Though of course you would have a government creating and enforcing rules, even after the downfall of the Empire.

 

[Khev]

Another missed opportunity with the Return of the Jedi scene: They could have had Jean ask "So that's it? That's the end of the series right?" And then Cyclops goes, "uh yeah, they destroyed the Empire, what else could happen, have Han and Leia's kids turn to the Dark Side? All they can do now is go back and make Episodes I, II, and III. That will be so awesome."

 

[karamazov80]

I guess that same suspension of disbelief is what they're going for with this. It's troublesome though - these films are trying to elevate themselves by knowingly drawing parallels with certain real-life civil rights struggles and yet when they have a morally conflicted character going off the handle and potentially killing millions....you're supposed to not draw upon real-life reactions of horror and condemnation at those who carry out atrocities, you're supposed to say ''it's just a movie''. Can you have it both ways? I guess they always have. As RIDDICK said, Magneto made Charles almost kill every non-mutant with his mind in X-Men 2 - it just didn't happen to be successful. But there has definitely been massive death this time so the issue is more noticeable.

I think you can have it both ways with movies, and that most do deserve the benefit of the doubt. Because they aren't historical re-enactments, but fictional entertainment. You give a movie some weight when you pull in some heavy, real world stuff. But there's a line somewhere, and I'm sure it differs from person to person. I'm OK with all the Hitler clone movies out there, for example.

 

[Khev]

I'm okay with Vader going to "Force Ghost Heaven." I do assume that if he didn't die he would have been tried for war crimes and received the maximum penalty for such actions (probably execution.) But since it was a kid's movie that alternative obviously didn't need to be addressed or explored due to the convenience of his death.

 

[karamazov80]

Another missed opportunity with the Return of the Jedi scene: They could have had Jean ask "So that's it? That's the end of the series right?" And then Cyclops goes, "uh yeah, they destroyed the Empire, what else could happen, have Han and Leia's kids turn to the Dark Side? All they can do now is go back and make Episodes I, II, and III. That will be so awesome."

Extending the argument re: Magneto, the actions and re-actions of the kid X-Men after unleashing Wolvie can be similarly criticized IMO. The implications of what they did isn't explored, but maybe could have been. I don't think all those scientists and soldiers deserved a brutal death that way, though some maybe did

 

[Khev]

What's ironic is that Magneto almost certainly killed more innocents than Hitler did. So yeah, he can definitely just let Auschwitz go *forever* now.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Magneto lost his wife and kid sure but he went and had tea after his atrocities and his son is alive and looks up to him.

Magneto's story is not over yet.

 

[jye4ever]

Shame its too late to cancel Mangold's Wolverine 3 and just give him to the Russo's to turn into a bad ass.

i'll take a PG-13 Russo Wolverine over a rated R Mangold.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Comic Apoc is extremely powerful, able to control his molecules and possessing some psychic powers, though X-Factor were able to beat him without assistance (apart from that of Archangel, if that counts) early on. I honestly haven't followed him much past that.

Regarding Vader, his grandson looks up to him! Though of course you would have a government creating and enforcing rules, even after the downfall of the Empire.

I forget, was it Apoc that altered Beast so that he got dumber every time he used his strength?

 

[karamazov80]

Mangold has been behind some movies I like, and some I don't. The Yuma remake, Girl, Interrupted, and Copland were all quite good IMO. I think it's gonna be more writing than anything else here.

 

[jye4ever]

What's ironic is that Magneto almost certainly killed more innocents than Hitler did. So yeah, he can definitely just let Auschwitz go *forever* now.

I like how Magneto quickly rebuilt the mansion while the world will be without power, clean water, infrastructure and medicine for decades.

Thanks for bringing humanity back into the stone age but your mansion looks dope yo!

 

[karamazov80]

I have to admit, I thought it was a bit silly to suggest that Mags and Jean would have the architectural know-how to put entire buildings together like that. But cool visual.

 

[a-dev]

I have to admit, I thought it was a bit silly to suggest that Mags and Jean would have the architectural know-how to put entire buildings together like that. But cool visual.

And I wonder which of them handled the plumbing and electricity.

 

[karamazov80]

Admittedly, the movie would have worked better if it ended before they showed Mags and pals chummily defying the laws of nature putting the mansion together, etc. (was Mags putting every nail in every stud???). And if that would have meant no crappy end of credits scene, all the better.

 

[Khev]

It's so weird how these movies deliberately ignore how the last one ended.

1. Final scene of First Class: Magneto in a red outfit is leading evil mutants! Emma, Devil Guy, Whirlwind Guy, Wasp chick! ------> DOFP: Nope! They're all dead, Mags doesn't dress like that either, in fact he never did.

2. Final scene of DOFP: Stryker doesn't have Wolverine because he's really Mystique! --------> XMA: Psyche! That was really Stryker.

The next movie will probably open with a prologue that says "The year is 1993. After 20 years of peace the earth has finally embraced mutantkind..."

 

[IrishJedi]

I wouldn't mind Matthew Vaughn coming back in and ignoring the last 2 movies and picking up where left off with FIRST CLASS.

Won't happen, though.

 

[karamazov80]

It's so weird how these movies deliberately ignore how the last one ended.

1. Final scene of First Class: Magneto in a red outfit is leading evil mutants! Emma, Devil Guy, Whirlwind Guy, Wasp chick! ------> DOFP: Nope! They're all dead, Mags doesn't dress like that either, in fact he never did.

2. Final scene of DOFP: Stryker doesn't have Wolverine because he's really Mystique! --------> XMA: Psyche! That was really Stryker.

The next movie will probably open with a prologue that says "The year is 1993. After 20 years of peace the earth has finally embraced mutantkind..."

*first scene of the next X-Men movie*
Jean: Hey Scott, do you remember how many years it took to painstaking rebuild the mansion?
Scott: Yeah. And right after the Professor cut ties with Magneto forever after all the death he was responsible for. A tough time to be an X-Man, for sure.
Beast: Hey guys. Do you remember how Deadpool appeared, dressed up like a French maid to help cleanup after Wolverine's massacre of all those soldiers? Crazy stuff.

 

[EVILFACE]

Not understanding the DEADPOOL hate, either.

It's not MCU.

Besides, Capt would beat him up.