X-Men: Apocalypse - May 27, 2016

[meanstreak]

I agree about Avengers... the film paces really slow in the middle. It's not a bad film, and superior to AOU in every way, but was way over hyped (as MCU films typically are) It's at the bottom of my top five and will likely fall below when Guardians 2 comes out or the new Spidey. Hell, maybe even Doctor Strange since that looks different than any MCU film so far and I don't think they are turning it into an Avengers lite. I don't have much faith in Thor 3, but at least we won't be seeing any of the crap from Earth. Hope it's good...

Top five MCU films for me:
1. Winter Soldier
2. Iron Man
3. Guardians of the Galaxy
4. Civil War
5. Avengers

 

[JAWS]

Jye and Khev are trying really hard to elevate Cap’s movies

TWS and CW are nowhere near the greatness of BB and TDK. The first Avenger doesn’t even rank in the top 5 MCU films. People still think Avengers is a great movie?

Add me to that list. I think TWS and CW are up there with TDK and better then BB. BB is great but the finale 30 min or so gets goofy really quick. TWS and CW have some of the best if not the best Action ever done in a comic film.

I won't defend TFA. It is an above average Marvel film. The Steve Rogers character is great and it's greatness ends there for me. But still not a bad film.

I still don't get the hate of the original Avengers film by some. When did it become a bad film? Due to the fact it has Loki it still has the best Villain. It has some great back and forth between the characters and has some of the best action scenes in the MCU. Don't get it... I think people need to watch it again and not let the taste of AOU ruin their memories of this film

It didn't suddenly become crap, no.

Exactly... When did this happen? I really think people have allowed their opinion of Joss and their memory or the Original Avengers film get mucked up by AOU.

 

[jye4ever]

Even though you did not ask me I am going to throw out my opinion anyways..

I watched TFA again the other night (first time since the theater) and I while I enjoyed it, IMO it is far from the same quality as TDK, TWS, and CW. I would stick the first Avengers film in there also. As for TFA, the first hour is great but then it sort of falls apart for the second half. the effects take a dive, Red Skull is not very interesting nor easy to take seriously. Action feels rushed (could be because of Montage). It's still good but I would not really put it any higher then the two Thor Movies and call I slightly above average.

AOU belongs in the basement with IM2 and 3.

I think putting Deadpool with TDKR is fair... I would also stick the majority of X-men films there also.

I almost never see that movie talked about anymore. I know all film is subjective, but thats just one of those movies I’ll never understand how its considered good.



I tried containing myself

What I was getting at is that on its own TFA is the weakest of the 3 BUT it has such a charm to it that it works perfectly as the introduction.

But when you put those 3 together they form a rare breed, a trilogy where the quality improves as it moves forward.

So maybe TFA isn't BB/TDK quality but for me at least it is much better than TDKR.

Which means as a trilogy:

TFA/TWS/CW > BB/TDK/TDKR

Oh, and one more thing, Avengers does NOT suck!

 

[Khev]

Hulk fans love the first Avengers. Cap fans, not so much. I can't even enjoy that suit for the lolz. It's just painful to look at (and apparently wear, if you notice in pretty much every candid shot Evans is doing his best Sad Affleck impression.)

 

[JAWS]

I almost never see that movie talked about anymore. I know all film is subjective, but thats just one of those movies I’ll never understand how its considered good.

Well the MCU is seeing film after film so its easy to look past The Avengers. It's not like TDK which was part of a trilogy of a self contained character. I freaking love the Avengers but don't bring it up as much because it did get topped IMO by TWS and CW and there where seven other MCU films since. But if I was ranking them it still sits firmly at number three.. It could sneak to #2 if repeat viewings of CW don't hold up as well.

I agree about Avengers... the film paces really slow in the middle. It's not a bad film, and superior to AOU in every way, but was way over hyped (as MCU films typically are) It's at the bottom of my top five and will likely fall below when Guardians 2 comes out or the new Spidey. Hell, maybe even Doctor Strange since that looks different than any MCU film so far and I don't think they are turning it into an Avengers lite. I don't have much faith in Thor 3, but at least we won't be seeing any of the crap from Earth. Hope it's good...

Top five MCU films for me:
1. Winter Soldier
2. Iron Man
3. Guardians of the Galaxy
4. Civil War
5. Avengers

I personally am always amazed at how quickly the film moves, even with it's slow middle section.

I will say this... Much of my love for the Original Avengers films stems from how Great Hulk was in it.

Take Hulk out of the film and perhaps I find myself agreeing with you guys. But he was in the film and in that film he has the best parts of the entire MCU.

 

[JAWS]

Hulk fans love the first Avengers. Cap fans, not so much. I can't even enjoy that suit for the lolz. It's just painful.

But it was in Avengers when I really started to love Cap... But that outfit... OUCH.... Give him AOU outfit and I think Cap fans would have no issues with the Avengers.

 

[JAWS]

What I was getting at is that on its own TFA is the weakest of the 3 BUT it has such a charm to it that it works perfectly as the introduction.

But when you put those 3 together they form a rare breed, a trilogy where the quality improves as it moves forward.

So maybe TFA isn't BB/TDK quality but for me at least it is much better than TDKR.

Which means as a trilogy:

TFA/TWS/CW > BB/TDK/TDKR

Oh, and one more thing, Avengers does NOT suck!

I get you now... I would agree about Cap trilogy being better then TDK trilogy... If for no other reason then the third film did not single handedly ruin my enjoyment of the character and the previous two films. TDKR took everything I love about Batman and made him SUCK.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I still don't get the hate of the original Avengers film by some. When did it become a bad film? Due to the fact it has Loki it still has the best Villain. It has some great back and forth between the characters and has some of the best action scenes in the MCU. Don't get it... I think people need to watch it again and not let the taste of AOU ruin their memories of this film

Avengers won't age well,imo. The CGI aliens, and the villain's plan kind of ruins the film. It's still fun and colorful, but very dumb. Still much better than the underwhelming TFA Cap film.

 

[Khev]

But it was in Avengers when I really started to love Cap... But that outfit... OUCH.... Give him AOU outfit and I think Cap fans would have no issues with the Avengers.

AoU outfit would at least allow me to watch the movie right now without cringing throughout. But he was still just "okay" in it. I think if the Hulk slammed Ultron around the way he did to Loki then you'd love AoU as much as Avengers. I did enjoy Avengers despite how Cap was handled because I figured that was as good as it was ever going to get so I turned a blind eye to its shortcomings. Once TWS came out I forsook it and never looked back.

Every once in a while I'll catch a few minutes of it on FX but it never holds my interest past a commercial break. It might be the second most important movie in the MCU, and I appreciate that it prompted Marvel to increase TWS's budget, but it doesn't really hold my interest anymore.

 

[meanstreak]

Yeah, I agree with Khev... Cap wasn't handled well in Avengers. I'm going to throw in Thor as well. He wasn't in it much, got his ass beat by Hulk and got trick stabbed by Loki.

Also Loki wasn't held responsible for any of the destruction that happened on Earth... he was locked in a cell in Asgard and freed cause Thor needed his help on some crappy villain.

 

[Khev]

Yeah, I agree with Khev... Cap wasn't handled well in Avengers. I'm going to throw in Thor as well. He wasn't in it much, got his ass beat by Hulk and got trick stabbed by Loki.

The Russos took pains to give every superhero in Civil War their own arc and great moments in action. You could tell with The Avengers that all Whedon really cared about was Stark, the Hulk, and Black Widow. Cap, Hawkeye, and Thor were clearly afterthoughts.

 

[jye4ever]

CW is far superior to Avengers but I can only imagine what the Russo's will do to Hulk and Thor!

Let that sink in for a second...Russo's with Hulk and Thor in their arsenal!

Oh my khev....hold me.

Jaws head is going to explode!

 

[meanstreak]

I'm excited to see what they do with Thor.

My biggest concern is all the characters that are supposed to be in the film... it'll be hard for everyone to shine this time IMO.

I feel like it would make more sense for Hawkeye to retire, War Machine and Bucky to be out of commission and have Iron Man, Thor, Cap, Widow, Hulk, Witch, Vision, Ant Man, Wasp, Panther, Spidey, Doc Strange, the Guardians and introduce Cap Marvel. Holy ****, that's even A LOT in its self

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I'm excited to see what they do with Thor.

My biggest concern is all the characters that are supposed to be in the film... it'll be hard for everyone to shine this time IMO.

I feel like it would make more sense for Hawkeye to retire, War Machine and Bucky to be out of commission and have Iron Man, Thor, Cap, Widow, Hulk, Witch, Vision, Ant Man, Wasp, Panther, Spidey, Doc Strange, the Guardians and introduce Cap Marvel. Holy ****, that's even A LOT in its self

What the hell is Widow going to do against Thanos? One of those silly head scissors twirls

 

[meanstreak]

I agree, but you know that ***** isn't going anywhere

 

[pturtle]

Add me to that list. I think TWS and CW are up there with TDK and better then BB. BB is great but the finale 30 min or so gets goofy really quick. TWS and CW have some of the best if not the best Action ever done in a comic film.

I won't defend TFA. It is an above average Marvel film. The Steve Rogers character is great and it's greatness ends there for me. But still not a bad film.

I still don't get the hate of the original Avengers film by some. When did it become a bad film? Due to the fact it has Loki it still has the best Villain. It has some great back and forth between the characters and has some of the best action scenes in the MCU. Don't get it... I think people need to watch it again and not let the taste of AOU ruin their memories of this film




Exactly... When did this happen? I really think people have allowed their opinion of Joss and their memory or the Original Avengers film get mucked up by AOU.

What's goofy about Batman Begins third act? Only thing I really remember was Rachel and the taser thing with Scarecrow. TWS went far more off the rails in my opinion, it borderline turned into a Michael Bay film.

I've always hated the Avengers, it's just a very bad movie in my opinion. For movie that required the worlds greatest heroes to come together, it lacked urgency. I can understand enjoying it the first time watching it but once the novelty wears off from seeing all these heroes interact there's not much to enjoy.

Loki is the best MCU villain but not because of The Avengers, all of his greatness comes from Thor 1.

What I was getting at is that on its own TFA is the weakest of the 3 BUT it has such a charm to it that it works perfectly as the introduction.

But when you put those 3 together they form a rare breed, a trilogy where the quality improves as it moves forward.

So maybe TFA isn't BB/TDK quality but for me at least it is much better than TDKR.

Which means as a trilogy:

TFA/TWS/CW > BB/TDK/TDKR

Oh, and one more thing, Avengers does NOT suck!

I know SSF is anti-Nolan, but I just can't see how TFA is better than TDKR.

I will agree that the Cap films are a rare breed that got better as they went on, but that's really it for me.

Well the MCU is seeing film after film so its easy to look past The Avengers. It's not like TDK which was part of a trilogy of a self contained character. I freaking love the Avengers but don't bring it up as much because it did get topped IMO by TWS and CW and there where seven other MCU films since. But if I was ranking them it still sits firmly at number three.. It could sneak to #2 if repeat viewings of CW don't hold up as well.



I personally am always amazed at how quickly the film moves, even with it's slow middle section.

I will say this... Much of my love for the Original Avengers films stems from how Great Hulk was in it.

Take Hulk out of the film and perhaps I find myself agreeing with you guys. But he was in the film and in that film he has the best parts of the entire MCU.

I guess you're right about that, Iron Man was a huge deal when it came out and still my fav MCU film by far but people very rarely talk about it anymore.


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[YoNoSe]

Monday after opening weekend. Four pages of people NOTtalking about X-Men.

 

[jye4ever]

Hey what are your thoughs on Batman Begins.

Oh look, XMA made 65 million, impressive...back in 2005.

 

[karamazov80]

It made closer to $80 million including Thursday, and should be upwards of $100 million after today from what I read somewhere. International take is almost $200 million so far.

Okay, cool. So basically parallel to my history with Cap comics. I fell away a bit in the mid-90's when Gruenwald's stories were getting SO goofy (Cap-Wolf, Battle Armor Cap) and the art got pretty poor for those storylines too so it was quite the double-whammy and then right as Waid and Garney made it cool again bam, Heroes Reborn.

I had every issue of the Wolverine solo series for the first few years and at some point would like to read some of those classic X-Men tales. Is there a particular Epic Collection trade that you're most fond of?

Given your interest in mid-late '80s stuff, you may prefer the Mutant Massacre or Fall of the Mutants storylines (titles pretty accurately reflecting the tone of the X-Men ). But in my book, the best is anything from Claremont/Byrne (though the prior Claremont/Cockrum work from the mid-late '70s set the stage for their stuff), and the second best is the Lee/Kirby run from early on. Roy Thomas and Neal Adams also had a memorable, smaller run in the early '70s. I'm not sure about specific TPBs, but the Marvel Masterworks line has just about all that stuff. This looks like it has some of the better stories, including Dark Phoenix Saga and Days of Future Past:

https://www.amazon.com/Uncanny-X-Me...qid=1464664644&sr=1-12&keywords=uncanny+x-men

Here is the Mutant Massacre collection, which includes my other favorite X-Men comic, number 213 (cover is shown on the backside of this TPB--brilliant Alan Davis artwork).

https://www.amazon.com/X-Men-Mutant...id=1464664843&sr=1-1&keywords=mutant+massacre

and this is contains the earliest issues:

https://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Maste...=1464664956&sr=1-1&keywords=masterworks+x-men

What the hell is Widow going to do against Thanos? One of those silly head scissors twirls

Just as much as Cap, or anyone else we've seen thus far should be able to do. Guy can control time, space, matter. . .no one will have any effect on him from a physical standpoint.

 

[karamazov80]

I forgot to mention another personal favorite of mine is the early issues of Excalibur, which was a UK-based X-Men team including Captain Britain, Kitty Pryde, Nightcrawler, Rachel Summers (future daughter of Cyclops and Jean Grey from the DOFP timeline), and Meggan, a weird shape shifting elemental character who was romantically involved with Cap Britain. Being a huge Alan Davis fan, and a fan of wacky British comics in general--this comic was really an extension of the Alan Moore/Alan Davis Captain Britain UK comic from the mid-'80s, I loved those as well. It has a humor and style that was very different from the standard X-Men comics at the time.