X-Men: Days of Future Past

[DiFabio]

Honestly, I think much of the "First Class was awesome" by the fanboys (myself included in this one), is that it was coming off of both Last Stand and Origins. The bar was extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemely low for X-Men films at that point.

Pretty much this.

I don't think it's better than X2, and it's about on par with X1. That's not a slight either, because First Class is a really good movie. I just think, after years of terrible X-Men movies, a good one felt like a godsend. I don't think First Avenger is better than it, but I don't think it's worse than it either.

 

[karamazov80]

And that's where I disagree with you. Superficially, it had heart, because everyone was saying the things they were supposed to, etc. The grenade thing, his not giving up in the fight, his refusal to stand back and be a cheerleader. But I didn't feel it. In other words, I don't think it did what it set out to do as a film, though it was all fine on paper. Some of that may have been due to Cap's most important dramatic stuff being done when his head was CG'd on a freakishly small body, I don't know, but that's how it felt to me. My wife, who knew nothing about Cap really, thought the movie was lame because it was not memorable. She said that nothing stood out. She went to see Avengers only because RDJ was in it. And I can understand how she felt that way. The X-Men movies have their faults, but as far as comic movies go, only Nolan has done drama better IMO.

 

[Khev]

All this Cap 2 knocking seems to be the culmination of all the praise it received in the past 5 months. I remember the same thing happened with The Dark Knight. A few peeps got tired of hearing how great it was and went into the "it's not that great" phase.

Yeah, and to be honest I'm actually a little surprised that this little mini-TWS backlash took so long to hit. But hey, it really is that good and I imagine even naysayers don't want to look silly. Not even the merciless Honest Trailers guys could fault it other than a few tiny nitpicks.

And the thing with Chris Evans as Cap that has really stricken a chord rarely seen in superhero movies is his pure unadulterated earnestness. Somehow he does the "goody two shoes" thing without being cheesy or eye-rolling. Every hero has to be brooding or at war with themselves or guilt driven to be "relatable." And Evans and his directors just haven't gone that route. I still remember opening night watching TFA in 2011. It was a noisy crowd and they were probably sick of superheroes that summer considering three others had already come before it. Lots of guys and their dates and they were blabbing away, laughing inappropriately, and seemingly not really in the mood to give Cap a chance. But then Steve fell on that grenade and everyone SHUT UP. Total silence. Everyone in the whole auditorium was won over seemingly at once and everybody was totally pro-Steve, pro-Cap from that moment on and totally into the movie.

I don't know that I've *ever* seen a turnaround in audience mood like that before.

 

[karamazov80]

But then Steve fell on that grenade and everyone SHUT UP. Total silence. Everyone in the whole auditorium was won over seemingly at once and everybody was totally pro-Steve, pro-Cap from that moment on and totally into the movie.

I don't know that I've *ever* seen a turnaround in audience mood like that before.

I think there was more of a collective yawn/eyeroll in the theater I attended during that scene. They probably shut up because they all fell asleep.

 

[Khev]

I think there was more of a collective yawn/eyeroll in the theater I attended during that scene.

Of course. Every auditorium always collectively agrees with whoever is posting at any given moment. I'm sure when pturtle saw TFA someone in the audience stood up and shouted, "this sucks, when is a time-traveling Wolverine going to show up and fix things!?"

 

[thenammagazine]

Without TFA accomplishing what it did, albeit slow and character-driven, Avengers wouldn't have the memorable confrontations between Cap who represented an antiquated, forgotten and almost obsolete America and Stark who was the personification of modern day America.

 

[pturtle]

Someone should do a FC vs TFA poll, if TFA wins I might just retire from life.

 

[pturtle]

Of course. Every auditorium always collectively agrees with whoever is posting at any given moment. I'm sure when pturtle saw TFA someone in the audience stood up and shouted, "this sucks, when is a time-traveling Wolverine going to show up and fix things!?"

How did you....wait a minute did you happen to watch TFA while visiting NY?

 

[Khev]

And that's where I disagree with you. Superficially, it had heart, because everyone was saying the things they were supposed to, etc. The grenade thing, his not giving up in the fight, his refusal to stand back and be a cheerleader. But I didn't feel it. In other words, I don't think it did what it set out to do as a film, though it was all fine on paper. Some of that may have been due to Cap's most important dramatic stuff being done when his head was CG'd on a freakishly small body, I don't know, but that's how it felt to me. My wife, who knew nothing about Cap really, thought the movie was lame because it was not memorable. She said that nothing stood out. She went to see Avengers only because RDJ was in it. And I can understand how she felt that way. The X-Men movies have their faults, but as far as comic movies go, only Nolan has done drama better IMO.

Sounds like you're letting the missus dictate what your movie opinions are.

 

[pturtle]

My theater experience with TFA was similar to TASM, people seemed bored for most of the movie, then gained a bit of interest with the few good scenes they had, then went back to being bored and left not talking about the movie they just saw but what they planned on doing later in the day.

 

[Khev]

He is in my top 5 Marvel guys, and being serious for a minute, Winter Soldier really did him justice, which I am thankful for. I'm a bit bummed by the prospect of our losing Rogers in the Marvel Studios U when Evans' contract expires.

What has been officially said on this? Anything? Or are people just speculating that Marvel will temporarily retire Rogers with Evans due to comic storylines like Bucky Cap and Falcon Cap?

 

[DiFabio]

And that's where I disagree with you. Superficially, it had heart, because everyone was saying the things they were supposed to, etc. The grenade thing, his not giving up in the fight, his refusal to stand back and be a cheerleader. But I didn't feel it. In other words, I don't think it did what it set out to do as a film, though it was all fine on paper. Some of that may have been due to Cap's most important dramatic stuff being done when his head was CG'd on a freakishly small body, I don't know, but that's how it felt to me. My wife, who knew nothing about Cap really, thought the movie was lame because it was not memorable. She said that nothing stood out. She went to see Avengers only because RDJ was in it. And I can understand how she felt that way. The X-Men movies have their faults, but as far as comic movies go, only Nolan has done drama better IMO.

See, I'd say that the "drama" in Nolan's Batman movies are superficial, especially the last one. It all seems calculated and unnatural, like what I imagine the development process for Pearl Harbor's "drama" was, i.e. edit it in post with some Hans Zimmer music to make it more sentimental than it really is. I'm no Marvel fanboy, but when I'm watching their films (save for maybe the Thors and Incredible Hulk) I get a warm, comforting feeling of genuine goodness be it from tongue in cheek banter or "srs business". They set a particular mood that feels right, I'd say that Guardians of the Galaxy and Winter Soldier are exemplary of this with their openings, or hell, with their ends!

You just need to feel it Kara. We live in cynical and cold times, but that doesn't mean you have to be a machine. It's okay to feel, it's okay! You don't have to be the cyborg that shoots up police officers, you can be the one that knows why people cry.

 

[karamazov80]

Of course. Every auditorium always collectively agrees with whoever is posting at any given moment. I'm sure when pturtle saw TFA someone in the audience stood up and shouted, "this sucks, when is a time-traveling Wolverine going to show up and fix things!?"

LOL

Without TFA accomplishing what it did, albeit slow and character-driven, Avengers wouldn't have the memorable confrontations between Cap who represented an antiquated, forgotten and almost obsolete America and Stark who was the personification of modern day America.

Well if you see Cap, Thor, and IM2 as existing primarily to set up Avengers (and of course that was one of their primary purposes--look at the title of Cap's film!), then I agree with you. They did set the stage for Avengers quite well. We knew where Cap came from, we knew who Loki was, we knew Stark was looking into creating this team, etc.

Someone should do a FC vs TFA poll, if TFA wins I might just retire from life.

I would expect TFA to win. And in fairness, it did some things much better than First Class. It was closer to the comic source, it was more of a traditional crowd pleaser, it had the better villain, and it had a more traditional hero that I'm sure some audiences could more easily relate to than the weirdos in the X-Men.

 

[jye4ever]

"I can do this all day" alone makes it better than FC.

That was inspiring to me.

Hell, the musical number alone in TFA makes it the better of the 2.

I didn't even get to RS yet.

 

[Khev]

"I can do this all day" alone makes it better than FC.

That was inspiring to me.

Hell, the musical number alone in TFA makes it the better of the 2.

"I can do this all day" vs. "go eff yourself." That really says it all right there, doesn't it?

 

[karamazov80]

Sounds like you're letting the missus dictate what your movie opinions are.

Bah. My hero Reed Richards instructs me on how to treat the ladies.

What has been officially said on this? Anything? Or are people just speculating that Marvel will temporarily retire Rogers with Evans due to comic storylines like Bucky Cap and Falcon Cap?

All speculation at this point, but this seems to be the consensus intuition. And some of the Russos comments suggest to me that this is going to happen.

See, I'd say that the "drama" in Nolan's Batman movies are superficial, especially the last one. It all seems calculated and unnatural, like what I imagine the development process for Pearl Harbor's "drama" was, i.e. edit it in post with some Hans Zimmer music to make it more sentimental than it really is. I'm no Marvel fanboy, but when I'm watching their films (save for maybe the Thors and Incredible Hulk) I get a warm, comforting feeling of genuine goodness be it from tongue in cheek banter or "srs business". They set a particular mood that feels right, I'd say that Guardians of the Galaxy and Winter Soldier are exemplary of this with their openings, or hell, with their ends!

You just need to feel it Kara. We live in cynical and cold times, but that doesn't mean you have to be a machine. It's okay to feel, it's okay! You don't have to be the cyborg that shoots up police officers, you can be the one that knows why people cry.

I hear you, and honestly love the Marvel Studios stuff. I just feel they have strengths and weaknesses, and in terms of my own movie tastes, Singer and friends seem to better connect with me. Certainly, when you look at the whole body of work, nothing we've seen is as impressive as what Marvel Studios have done, doing so well with so many different kinds of films. Daredevil has the potential to hit on the kind of genuine angst and drama that checks itself at the door in the Marvel Studios theatrical stuff. But we'll see.

 

[DiFabio]

And in fairness, it did some things much better than First Class. It was closer to the comic source, it was more of a traditional crowd pleaser, it had the better villain, and it had a more traditional hero that I'm sure some audiences could more easily relate to than the weirdos in the X-Men.

 

[karamazov80]

"I can do this all day" vs. "go eff yourself." That really says it all right there, doesn't it?

In some ways yeah, it does And that's appropriate for these respective franchises. X-Men was usually more cynical. In fact, many of those guys probably wouldn't have been heroes at all, except that they were either totally cast out of normal society, or felt they had to do it in order to help ensure the survival of their race. The easy turn in First Class by "Angel" makes sense for that story. She just wanted to be accepted, and to survive. The guys on the Avengers are the kinds of guys that get parades and statues. They do what they do out of duty (Cap), or glory (Thor), egotism and philanthropy (Stark), or whatever. Hulk is the only truly tragic hero in the Marvel Studios U so far. X-Men has nothing but guys like that.

 

[Khev]

If everyone despised the Avengers, and a huge chunk of the population wanted them dead, I doubt we would have Cap reciting patriotic platitudes on the battlefield.

Sure he would. But if the country ever turned on Cap he'd just take down the entire United States just like he did with SHIELD.

Don't piss him off or "the whole thing goes."

 

[Darth Snoopy]

I think there was more of a collective yawn/eyeroll in the theater I attended during that scene. They probably shut up because they all fell asleep.

That's probably because you and the rest of the audience in attendance are unpatriotic unfeeling communist heathens.