[XM Studios] Phoenix

[3Cube]

Compromise is a good word here SurlyJ. It's a definite compromise by XM. I only wished they didn't do rush jobs on these things for shows as that's what is creating this whole fiasco in the first place with a piece that isn't painted/designed up to their standards.

I see this type of thing often, especially when it come to garage kits in Japan. The rush to show something that isn't ready just to have a place holder for preordering. Except XM already soldout their preorder months ago, so I don't see why they need to rush another iteration of a WIP that is not ready for primetime.

 

[Y4NK33 PL4N3T]

Yep the changes make perfect sense from an engineering and design point of view. However there are a lot of people who would sacrifice the translucent lean pron Phoenix for the original if they got the original head sculpt. XM is being super respectful and up front about the need for the changes, but tis was bound to happen eventually with changes happening to pieces after the PO. They were going to make changes that a large number of people weren't going to like. Unfortunately it happens to be on their most anticipated piece since Magneto. The blow back on this one is going to be pretty nasty if it isn't changed back

That's fine, but therein lies a problem which in part is that XM listens to community feedback intently and does try to make improvements that will make a majority happy. I love them for it personally.

I'm referring to the Phoenix fire specifically here, as well all know that people on every forum posted non stop about changing the original and instead using translucent material because that's what they wanted and that's what they thought would look better than the original. We had pages and pages of discussion about it, as well as tons of reference pictures of other statues that utilized a similar translucent material that worked well as examples.

XM listened, XM took action and XM delivered what the majority wanted - and it looks freaking amazing.

This change came at a price though, and some people are understandably unhappy about it. That's fine, that's their right I suppose and if they really feel unhappy they can go ahead and cancel. XM isn't screwing them over, which is fantastic. I'll gladly scoop up a PO spot since I passed initially.

I can't even imagine how many hours & how many resources were poured into making the change the community wanted with respect to translucent Phoenix fire. So, if I'm XM I'm not going back to the original b/c doing so would be a complete waste of said time and resources. Plus, there's a TON of positive feedback with people who absolutely love the changes and now you'd run the risk of alienating all of them and coming across as a total **** tease which nobvody wants in the future. Mush on I say.

The old adage of 'be careful what you wish for' plays well here.

Now a different complaint I read was about the change in green paint on her suit, and if that's indeed accurate then I believe XM should give the customers an explanation.

 

[traylorc]

Compromise is a good word here SurlyJ. It's a definite compromise by XM. I only wished they didn't do rush jobs on these things for shows as that's what is creating this whole fiasco in the first place with a piece that isn't painted/designed up to their standards.

I know this whole process has been frustrating to some folks...but AC_808 said it best...we all knew the risks when we elected to pre-order. When you pre-order...you are placing your order based on a prototype that is subject to change. Let's call what it is...most of us elected to take a "leap of faith" based on XM's amazing sculpts and willingness to solicit feedback from their customers.

When it comes to manufacturers...they are concerned about a product "being up to standards" when it enters final production and leaves the manufacturing plant. The whole purpose of creating a prototype is to give the manufacturer and opportunity to "tweek" the product as they see fit & anticipate any problems. This allows them an opportunity to make sure their product adheres to their defined standards before entering final production. During the prototype phase a manufacturer is able to identify problems with their products before being shipped out. I am glad XM was able to identify a potential problem with leaning prior to Phoenix being delivered to customers. Sometimes you have to make trade-offs and sacrifices during the production process...some of those changes will upset some potential customers.

Unfortunately manufacturers cannot wait until the very end of the prototype process to make a product available for pre-order....that is simply not realistic. After all, the pre-order process may provide some insight as to whether the pre-defined ES makes sense or not. No need to produce 999 pieces of a product with a luke warm response from customers during pre-ordering. Nothing places a manufacturer out of business quicker than absorbing the carrying costs associated with stale / non-moving inventory. At the end of the day, none of this is new...SS routinely places banner on their website for pre-order products that says "subject to change".

Given the limited availability of XM products in the states due to licensing restrictions...we either accept the risks associated with ordering based on a prototype or skip the pre-order, wait for in-hand pics, and then take your chances on the secondary market.

 

[traylorc]

That's fine, but therein lies a problem which in part is that XM listens to community feedback intently and does try to make improvements that will make a majority happy. I love them for it personally.

I'm referring to the Phoenix fire specifically here, as well all know that people on every forum posted non stop about changing the original and instead using translucent material because that's what they wanted and that's what they thought would look better than the original. We had pages and pages of discussion about it, as well as tons of reference pictures of other statues that utilized a similar translucent material that worked well as examples.

XM listened, XM took action and XM delivered what the majority wanted - and it looks freaking amazing.

This change came at a price though, and some people are understandably unhappy about it. That's fine, that's their right I suppose and if they really feel unhappy they can go ahead and cancel. XM isn't screwing them over, which is fantastic. I'll gladly scoop up a PO spot since I passed initially.

I can't even imagine how many hours & how many resources were poured into making the change the community wanted with respect to translucent Phoenix fire. So, if I'm XM I'm not going back to the original b/c doing so would be a complete waste of said time and resources. Plus, there's a TON of positive feedback with people who absolutely love the changes and now you'd run the risk of alienating all of them and coming across as a total **** tease which nobvody wants in the future. Mush on I say.

The old adage of 'be careful what you wish for' plays well here.

Now a different complaint I read was about the change in green paint on her suit, and if that's indeed accurate then I believe XM should give the customers an explanation.

 

[Spidey976]

That's fine, but therein lies a problem which in part is that XM listens to community feedback intently and does try to make improvements that will make a majority happy. I love them for it personally.

I'm referring to the Phoenix fire specifically here, as well all know that people on every forum posted non stop about changing the original and instead using translucent material because that's what they wanted and that's what they thought would look better than the original. We had pages and pages of discussion about it, as well as tons of reference pictures of other statues that utilized a similar translucent material that worked well as examples.

XM listened, XM took action and XM delivered what the majority wanted - and it looks freaking amazing.

This change came at a price though, and some people are understandably unhappy about it. That's fine, that's their right I suppose and if they really feel unhappy they can go ahead and cancel. XM isn't screwing them over, which is fantastic. I'll gladly scoop up a PO spot since I passed initially.

I can't even imagine how many hours & how many resources were poured into making the change the community wanted with respect to translucent Phoenix fire. So, if I'm XM I'm not going back to the original b/c doing so would be a complete waste of said time and resources. Plus, there's a TON of positive feedback with people who absolutely love the changes and now you'd run the risk of alienating all of them and coming across as a total **** tease which nobvody wants in the future. Mush on I say.

The old adage of 'be careful what you wish for' plays well here.

Now a different complaint I read was about the change in green paint on her suit, and if that's indeed accurate then I believe XM should give the customers an explanation.

I agree with everything that you have said (yeah I know it keeps happening). I will say that I think this is a case of becareful what you wish for. However, I would say that, and this is a maybe here, before they went as far as changing the head sculpt to accommodate the Phoenix, they could have said to the public "Here is what is going to have to happen to get the resin bird done. Here is what it will look like. What do you want us to do?" It has been months without a real update here. I will add that this really does speak to their commitment to the fans that they would work so hard on this to try and make everyone happy, but it isn't ever going to happen. I know it won't be fare, but there is going to be a backlash against this that last a long time if there isn't a way to get something closer to the original PO head. Hell, people haven't forgiven Rogues butt being filled in yet... lol

 

[Y4NK33 PL4N3T]

I agree with everything that you have said (yeah I know it keeps happening). I will say that I think this is a case of becareful what you wish for. However, I would say that, and this is a maybe here, before they went as far as changing the head sculpt to accommodate the Phoenix, they could have said to the public "Here is what is going to have to happen to get the resin bird done. Here is what it will look like. What do you want us to do?" It has been months without a real update here. I will add that this really does speak to their commitment to the fans that they would work so hard on this to try and make everyone happy, but it isn't ever going to happen. I know it won't be fare, but there is going to be a backlash against this that last a long time if there isn't a way to get something closer to the original PO head. Hell, people haven't forgiven Rogues butt being filled in yet... lol

Well to be fair, Rogues portrait with the googly eyes was one of the All Time biggest fails that company has ever experienced. To this day, it's the poster child for QC gone wrong.

That being said, glad we agree on this. I guess they could have done what you proposed, but honestly, I don't think the company needs to waste that much time stopping their production and asking the opinions of people along the way. Heck, there's no way of knowing that the feedback they'd get is from people who actually laid out money or people that have no intention of buying but just like to chime in.

It's a can of worms kind of thing imo, b/c what happens if half the people say 'stop, we want the original' and the other half say 'translucent bird or fail'?

 

[sarakawa]

Yea, I'm kinda torn. I like the resin bird but I'm not sure I like it so much that I would prefer it to the leaning polystone version. Especially since my favorite hair so far was the original proto type hair. I like the new calm face and the original face with the new hair is fine too. My favorite hair was the first one though and that doesn't work with the resin bird which is a shame. I suppose if I could have my way, I would go back to the polystone leaning bird so they could put a nice metal rod in the phoenix to prevent further leaning and then just give us the new calm face with the original hair and the new head with the original face with flowing up crazy hair.

 

[Silverine]

Of course it's possible for your hair to remain calm in that situation. You're freaking Phoenix and can control almost anything you want with your mind. If Jean wants calm pretty hair with him for a raging inferno behind her then gosh darn it Jean will have nice pretty hair.

Besides, the hair was floating before. It wasn't laying flat like nothing was happening. This is quite clearly a design compromise and there can be zero question about it as that's exactly what XM said it was.

I'm not going to kick up a huge fuss or threaten to cancel my PO. It's not a deal breaker for me but when I look at it all I can see is a compromise, not original intent of conceptual design. It happens. I would do it differently but I'm not a statue designer.

Oké you got me there with the Phoenix is powerful enought to get good looks in a dire situation I like it haha.
The green suite i dont know about that 1 is matte really better?

 

[SurlyJ]

I prefer the older polystone bird too, but the translucent one is fine too.

 

[traylorc]

That being said, glad we agree on this. I guess they could have done what you proposed, but honestly, I don't think the company needs to waste that much time stopping their production and asking the opinions of people along the way. Heck, there's no way of knowing that the feedback they'd get is from people who actually laid out money or people that have no intention of buying but just like to chime in.

It's a can of worms kind of thing imo, b/c what happens if half the people say 'stop, we want the original' and the other half say 'translucent bird or fail'?

Exactly...I think XM has "spoiled" us by actively soliciting feedback regarding their sculpts. We treat these XM pre-orders as if we are ordering a pizza. Certain people want a translucent bird, other people want hair on the original sculpt changed, others don't like the new hair, some want the glossy finish for the costume while others want the matte finish. Evidently XM is suppose to stop production at any point and time and incorporate the updated requested changes.

At the of the day, XM has agreed to refund anyone's deposit who is not happy with the updated changes with Phoenix. We have a company who actively solicits feedback from collectors, tries to incorporate changes based on the aforementioned feedback, and is willing to refund the entire deposit to anyone who is unhappy with the sculpt. XM is not going to be able to make everyone happy...but I have to be honest...I am glad they are willing to take the time to listen and trying to incorporate some of the suggestions. At some point they need to make firm decisions in regards to the final sculpt...I am hoping to receive this statue in 2015.

 

[filip629]

Compromise is a good word here SurlyJ. It's a definite compromise by XM. I only wished they didn't do rush jobs on these things for shows as that's what is creating this whole fiasco in the first place with a piece that isn't painted/designed up to their standards.

I see this type of thing often, especially when it come to garage kits in Japan. The rush to show something that isn't ready just to have a place holder for preordering. Except XM already soldout their preorder months ago, so I don't see why they need to rush another iteration of a WIP that is not ready for primetime.

I'm not saying this is the case but...let's not forget what a pain in the ass it is to get Misney to approve any X-MEN related merch nowadays. I mean, Misney already pulled Deadpool, Quick Silver, and the brown Wolvie from XM. Phoenix was already put on the back burner once by Misney. XM had to fight hard to get Phoenix approved for PO. It's no small wonder that XM rushed her through. If they didn't, it's quite possible Misney would have included her in the list of X-MEN related merch that was pulled from XM. Collectors are very fortunate that Mags and Phoenix slipped through the cracks given the war going on with FOX/Disney.

 

[Y4NK33 PL4N3T]

Exactly...I think XM has "spoiled" us by actively soliciting feedback regarding their sculpts. We treat these XM pre-orders as if we are ordering a pizza. Certain people want a translucent bird, other people want hair on the original sculpt changed, others don't like the new hair, some want the glossy finish for the costume while others want the matte finish. Evidently XM is suppose to stop production at any point and time and incorporate the updated requested changes.

At the of the day, XM has agreed to refund anyone's deposit who is not happy with the updated changes with Phoenix. We have a company who actively solicits feedback from collectors, tries to incorporate changes based on the aforementioned feedback, and is willing to refund the entire deposit to anyone who is unhappy with the sculpt. XM is not going to be able to make everyone happy...but I have to be honest...I am glad they are willing to take the time to listen and trying to incorporate some of the suggestions. At some point they need to make firm decisions in regards to the final sculpt...I am hoping to receive this statue in 2015.

Congrats on securing one!

 

[traylorc]

Of course it's possible for your hair to remain calm in that situation. You're freaking Phoenix and can control almost anything you want with your mind. If Jean wants calm pretty hair with him for a raging inferno behind her then gosh darn it Jean will have nice pretty hair.

 

[IdeaOfEvil]

I guess we should be thorough and also post what it is that shorudan is replying to here:

Originally Posted by DiscoCougar View Post
Through Facebook, Xm is kinda passive aggresively telling people that Phoenix isn't going to be changed at this point.

Would you guys be willing to have them push the release date back in order for them to fix the hair and phoenix angle problem? Or would you prefer them to push it out as it is?
XM Studios Premium Collectibles The phoenix dun have a angle problem ....

Just noticed that now you can't even see the phoenix birds head! Bad hair and obscures the view .
XM Studios Premium Collectibles It just the viewing angle...

Why not keep the original hair and tweak the bird instead? It would not be as noticeable since its flames!
XM Studios Premium Collectibles The fire phoenix is impossible to tweak unless you want a risk for bending over time....cheer

It needs to be changed , looks terrible
XM Studios Premium Collectibles Dun jubge the book by the cover....

Starting to regret buying this now, as im not happy with either head
XM Studios Premium Collectibles You are welcome to have your refund back.let me know which retailer you purchased from. I can help you arrange for the refund.

But now the hair looks weird
XM Studios Premium Collectibles It will be fine....


And the big response from XM about this all:


XM Studios Premium Collectibles Hi guys ,the production for this design is complicated and alot of bending problem on the phoenix as well as blocking problem on the hair with the phoenix . So all this lead us to change the hairstyle. Trust me if I would I will not want to do changes as it hell to make changes. To you guys changes is just 7 letters to us ...... pheeeeeew....
It not so bad after the changes maybe it just the angle of the image .... think back would we want to risk on these to get our name bad where we have gone so many miles already..... last I can say is for those who is not happy with it ,I feel sad too... pls refund and walk forward....there are still many awesome statue that coming the way...

Originally Posted by shorudan View Post
Hey everyone! No fighting! Watch this instead! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUT5rEU6pqM

With regards to the "refund if you're not satisfied", I must apologize on behalf of my brethens that it wasn't well phrased and gave the impression "If you ain't happy, just return it." Remember, the boys skipped education in their younger days to go into the glory of inhaling toxic gas and painting kits so their phrasing may be misconstrued.

What we are REALLY saying is "We can see that you're clearly upset with the posts and frustrated feedback . We understand fully if you wish to ask for a refund and will honor it regardless of our non-refundable deposit policy."

It's funny that ultimately the end statement is the same but when put across differently, gives a very different impression. But point noted we will improve on our communication skills! Hee ya! Any distressed caused is unintended and I apologize...

 

[-jay-]

Gutted that the European distributor can't sell to the UK. They have more of these in stock. Wonder how long it'll be before they can ship here?

 

[c11098]

I am thinking whether to get one from Europe as well.

 

[Stampe]

From a post at SF by bicoid18: Fast forward to around 2:20 minutes into the video And after watching - please stfu and/or cancel

 

[SurlyJ]

I do wish it was the original painted polystone bird but I'm still very excited to get it.

 

[sarakawa]

Ok, the video is just jaw dropping. I don't care which heads i get now, it'll be worth it...just ship it!

 

[wolf-brother]

Ok, the video is just jaw dropping. I don't care which heads i get now, it'll be worth it...just ship it!

I feel the same way after viewing that video. Just bring it!