Zack Snyder's Justice League

[ajp4mgs]

I just finished watching the full four hours again last night too. I still spread it out over several nights and that's probably how I'll always watch it.

I *love* this film.

There's so much I love about this movie it'll be hard to express everything just because there's so much spread out over the entire four hours but here goes with a few:

1. The 6 chapters (plus epilogue) combined with the 4:3 aspect ration REALLY takes me back to those big TV miniseries "events" in the early 80's like Shogun. That makes this feel more "special" and super nostalgic.

And I really love the IMAX ratio. Yeah it's funny to be watching something with black bars on the sides but usually we have black bars on the top and bottom so a picture that doesn't perfectly fit our living room TV's is nothing new. What I *hate* is information being lost due to cropping and since 4:3 is how he framed and composed the shots that's what I want to see. It still pisses me off that we have to watch IW and EG as freaking pan & scan movies at home.

The vertical space is very well used and highlights the towering buildings (skyscapers, Greek and underwater pillars) and heroes very well. I love it. And the overall look and cinematography puts most other superhero flicks (and certainly every MCU movie) to shame.

2. I love all the little moments that allow this film to breathe and us to get to know the characters and more of the world they live in. Even the stuff that makes me chuckle like the sweater sniffing/singing and epic pouring of Lois' latte, lol. I love it all. Barry's extended intro, Victor's full backstory and scenes of him using his manipulation of cyberspace to help families in need, all the little moments like Bruce and Diana's hands touching on the mouse pad and Alfred showing her how to make tea. I wouldn't have wanted any of that stuff cut out.

3. The theme of "second chances" that permeates through the entire film, both within the context of the story and the production of this particular cut in the real world. Not just Supes coming back to life but Victor reconciling with his dad, Bruce recruiting a new boy wonder and getting faith that things will work out which he probably didn't have since he was a child, Diana bonding with a new pilot and hints of a potential romance between her and Bruce and of course the ultimate second chance with Barry reversing time at the end. I did chuckle that Supes ended up being resurrected twice in one movie as a result of that, lol. Just great all around feels that I pretty much always want in a larger than life superhero movie, no matter how dire the stakes.

4. The action is just top notch throughout and despite the insane run time I never find myself checking my watch waiting for the good stuff to happen. It's all good stuff. Like I said earlier interesting quiet moments and character development with just enough action to consistently break it up.

5. Steppenwolf is awesome in this movie. His look, voice, and speeches remind me of Darkness from Ridley Scott's Legend making him both interesting to watch on screen and really fun to root against. He's a real powerhouse cutting through the Amazons and Atlaneans to the point where I found myself feeling kind of bad for those who couldn't escape his brutality.

6. Darkseid is cool. I saw a while back that there was some criticism leveled against him for being shown to lose his first on-screen battle but he was still kicking *** left and right and singlehandedly took out a Lantern before being overwhelmed so I don't consider his intro to be any worse than Sauron's defeat at the beginning of FOTR.

7. Knightmare. Wow, what can I say about this sequence that hasn't already been said. One of the best back and forths between Batman and Joker EVER. Other than the dumb reach around line it was pretty much perfect. I love that both got in each other's heads which you don't usually see, normally it's just one or the other getting the upper hand with the mind****. But no Joker was pushing all of Bruce's buttons and Bruce clearly rattled Joker with his pledge to fulfill Harley Quinn's dying promise. And then of course to save face for his reaction the Joker had to quickly play it off as if Bruce was bluffing. GREAT stuff.

Also there's something poignantly "meta" about the whole Knightmare epilogue, especially now that I know that it was filmed recently and not part of the original production shoot. That means that all the actors themselves were really in different places in their own lives as well, having suffered through any number of global and personal issues. A worldwide pandemic, lapses back into rehab, the ****storm that Amber Heard brought on herself, Leto getting unceremoniously ignored by Birds of Prey and upstaged by Phoenix, Ezra's Irish choking controversy, and of course Zack's own tragedy of losing his daughter and then having a usurper butcher his work. We really were watching a group of people who'd been through the ringer, both due to outside global events, poor choices, and personal tragedies. It gave the entire hellscape sequence just that extra level of authenticity that was impossible to ignore.

But I also like that you kind of *can* ignore it as a dreamlike "worst case scenario" that doesn't have to play out exactly the way that we saw. That somehow with the team's newfound unity, extra assistance from the likes of Martian Manhunter and others, and knowing in advance that "Lois is the key" that maybe it will all be avoided. I'm a sap when it comes to these things so I like to have that happy ending option for my own head canon.

When it's all said and done I just like being in this world and experiencing the ups and downs and ultimate triumphs beautifully captured on screen. That freeze frame moment of the the team in mid leap surrounding the charging batmobile put a smile on my face like few superhero films have.

Sure it'd be cool to see more Knightmare stuff but like the T2 future war I can be content with what we got. At least the promise of that war will never be screwed up or betrayed. I like that Snyder's DCEU is so accessible. Three movies, a single trilogy, done. Or an expanded trilogy if you want to cherry pick the first WW or Aquaman or what have you. Otherwise I'm totally fine with the Snyderverse ending on this awesome high note. This was a great win for "what could have been" and for a guy and his family who went through absolute hell and still stuck the landing in the end.

Absolutely fantastic post! Thank you for taking the time to do this. I'm glad I read this before my next viewing because it's going to enhance the experience now. In particular, and as Bravomite mentioned, I love your point about how the real-world events that these actors went through has a meta symmetry to the context for their characters when coming back after several years to film the Knightmare future scene. Great stuff.

Also want to thank you for pointing out the theme of second chances. It's just one of the themes that will continue being overlooked because I think most people focus so much on plot and action. I was very glad to see this film make an effort to ensure that thematic value wasn't neglected, as that is surprisingly under-served quite a bit in superhero movies, imo.

I love how the story used Superman and Batman to execute so much of that thematic takeaway. Superman's death re-awakened an evil threat, and his resurrection helped silence it. And all the while, Bruce Wayne found faith and embraced fellowship for probably the first time in his adult life as a result of the fall and rise of Superman. Every bit of that storyline reinforced themes carried out throughout the film.

It's great to know how much you enjoyed this. One of the few things I disagree with you about, though, is how content you are with an end to this Snyder story. I can't shake the nagging annoyance that there's an unfinished conclusion. I feel more cheated now because of how satisfying these 4 hours were.

Thanks again.

 

[Spartan Rex]

I just finished watching the full four hours again last night too. I still spread it out over several nights and that's probably how I'll always watch it.

I *love* this film.

There's so much I love about this movie it'll be hard to express everything just because there's so much spread out over the entire four hours but here goes with a few:

1. The 6 chapters (plus epilogue) combined with the 4:3 aspect ration REALLY takes me back to those big TV miniseries "events" in the early 80's like Shogun. That makes this feel more "special" and super nostalgic.

And I really love the IMAX ratio. Yeah it's funny to be watching something with black bars on the sides but usually we have black bars on the top and bottom so a picture that doesn't perfectly fit our living room TV's is nothing new. What I *hate* is information being lost due to cropping and since 4:3 is how he framed and composed the shots that's what I want to see. It still pisses me off that we have to watch IW and EG as freaking pan & scan movies at home.

The vertical space is very well used and highlights the towering buildings (skyscapers, Greek and underwater pillars) and heroes very well. I love it. And the overall look and cinematography puts most other superhero flicks (and certainly every MCU movie) to shame.

2. I love all the little moments that allow this film to breathe and us to get to know the characters and more of the world they live in. Even the stuff that makes me chuckle like the sweater sniffing/singing and epic pouring of Lois' latte, lol. I love it all. Barry's extended intro, Victor's full backstory and scenes of him using his manipulation of cyberspace to help families in need, all the little moments like Bruce and Diana's hands touching on the mouse pad and Alfred showing her how to make tea. I wouldn't have wanted any of that stuff cut out.

3. The theme of "second chances" that permeates through the entire film, both within the context of the story and the production of this particular cut in the real world. Not just Supes coming back to life but Victor reconciling with his dad, Bruce recruiting a new boy wonder and getting faith that things will work out which he probably didn't have since he was a child, Diana bonding with a new pilot and hints of a potential romance between her and Bruce and of course the ultimate second chance with Barry reversing time at the end. I did chuckle that Supes ended up being resurrected twice in one movie as a result of that, lol. Just great all around feels that I pretty much always want in a larger than life superhero movie, no matter how dire the stakes.

4. The action is just top notch throughout and despite the insane run time I never find myself checking my watch waiting for the good stuff to happen. It's all good stuff. Like I said earlier interesting quiet moments and character development with just enough action to consistently break it up.

5. Steppenwolf is awesome in this movie. His look, voice, and speeches remind me of Darkness from Ridley Scott's Legend making him both interesting to watch on screen and really fun to root against. He's a real powerhouse cutting through the Amazons and Atlaneans to the point where I found myself feeling kind of bad for those who couldn't escape his brutality.

6. Darkseid is cool. I saw a while back that there was some criticism leveled against him for being shown to lose his first on-screen battle but he was still kicking *** left and right and singlehandedly took out a Lantern before being overwhelmed so I don't consider his intro to be any worse than Sauron's defeat at the beginning of FOTR.

7. Knightmare. Wow, what can I say about this sequence that hasn't already been said. One of the best back and forths between Batman and Joker EVER. Other than the dumb reach around line it was pretty much perfect. I love that both got in each other's heads which you don't usually see, normally it's just one or the other getting the upper hand with the mind****. But no Joker was pushing all of Bruce's buttons and Bruce clearly rattled Joker with his pledge to fulfill Harley Quinn's dying promise. And then of course to save face for his reaction the Joker had to quickly play it off as if Bruce was bluffing. GREAT stuff.

Also there's something poignantly "meta" about the whole Knightmare epilogue, especially now that I know that it was filmed recently and not part of the original production shoot. That means that all the actors themselves were really in different places in their own lives as well, having suffered through any number of global and personal issues. A worldwide pandemic, lapses back into rehab, the ****storm that Amber Heard brought on herself, Leto getting unceremoniously ignored by Birds of Prey and upstaged by Phoenix, Ezra's Irish choking controversy, and of course Zack's own tragedy of losing his daughter and then having a usurper butcher his work. We really were watching a group of people who'd been through the ringer, both due to outside global events, poor choices, and personal tragedies. It gave the entire hellscape sequence just that extra level of authenticity that was impossible to ignore.

But I also like that you kind of *can* ignore it as a dreamlike "worst case scenario" that doesn't have to play out exactly the way that we saw. That somehow with the team's newfound unity, extra assistance from the likes of Martian Manhunter and others, and knowing in advance that "Lois is the key" that maybe it will all be avoided. I'm a sap when it comes to these things so I like to have that happy ending option for my own head canon.

When it's all said and done I just like being in this world and experiencing the ups and downs and ultimate triumphs beautifully captured on screen. That freeze frame moment of the the team in mid leap surrounding the charging batmobile put a smile on my face like few superhero films have.

Sure it'd be cool to see more Knightmare stuff but like the T2 future war I can be content with what we got. At least the promise of that war will never be screwed up or betrayed. I like that Snyder's DCEU is so accessible. Three movies, a single trilogy, done. Or an expanded trilogy if you want to cherry pick the first WW or Aquaman or what have you. Otherwise I'm totally fine with the Snyderverse ending on this awesome high note. This was a great win for "what could have been" and for a guy and his family who went through absolute hell and still stuck the landing in the end.

Pretty well stated.
I loved it as well, I go for all the details, minutia and exposition.
That said, The Batman leaning so heavily on faith seemed out of character for someone known as “the man with the plan.”
Isnt that the running gag in comic fandom?
That given enough prep time Batman can defeat anyone in the DC/Marvel universes.
If thats the path that Snyder wanted to take than perhaps a more pointed conversation between Bruce and Alfred or with Diana confessing he’s run out options or resources and the clock was running. He couldn?t control the X factor which is Superman. Maybe in hindsight that’s what Joss got right in his version.
He had Bruce make sure Alfred brought Lois to the resurrection of Kal rather than a big ol Co-winky-dink of timing. It was more in keeping with Batman’s leaving nothing to chance personality.

 

[jye4ever]

For a supposedly dark movie it really elevates your spirit while watching it

I’m just blown away on how effortless it was to sit thru those 4 hours!

Oh by the way my wife loved it absolutely loved it!

While the aspect ratio didn’t bother me and I get what he was going for and for the most part it worked but at the end of the day it’s still should’ve been 1:85 and he would’ve achieved the same results while being more immersive.

That is my only gripe

I loved Flash’s (window) and Aquaman’s (smashing waves) slow music scenes!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Clown-El........No!

 

[jal76]

I just finished watching the full four hours again last night too. I still spread it out over several nights and that's probably how I'll always watch it.

I *love* this film.

There's so much I love about this movie it'll be hard to express everything just because there's so much spread out over the entire four hours but here goes with a few:

1. The 6 chapters (plus epilogue) combined with the 4:3 aspect ration REALLY takes me back to those big TV miniseries "events" in the early 80's like Shogun. That makes this feel more "special" and super nostalgic.

And I really love the IMAX ratio. Yeah it's funny to be watching something with black bars on the sides but usually we have black bars on the top and bottom so a picture that doesn't perfectly fit our living room TV's is nothing new. What I *hate* is information being lost due to cropping and since 4:3 is how he framed and composed the shots that's what I want to see. It still pisses me off that we have to watch IW and EG as freaking pan & scan movies at home.

The vertical space is very well used and highlights the towering buildings (skyscapers, Greek and underwater pillars) and heroes very well. I love it. And the overall look and cinematography puts most other superhero flicks (and certainly every MCU movie) to shame.

2. I love all the little moments that allow this film to breathe and us to get to know the characters and more of the world they live in. Even the stuff that makes me chuckle like the sweater sniffing/singing and epic pouring of Lois' latte, lol. I love it all. Barry's extended intro, Victor's full backstory and scenes of him using his manipulation of cyberspace to help families in need, all the little moments like Bruce and Diana's hands touching on the mouse pad and Alfred showing her how to make tea. I wouldn't have wanted any of that stuff cut out.

3. The theme of "second chances" that permeates through the entire film, both within the context of the story and the production of this particular cut in the real world. Not just Supes coming back to life but Victor reconciling with his dad, Bruce recruiting a new boy wonder and getting faith that things will work out which he probably didn't have since he was a child, Diana bonding with a new pilot and hints of a potential romance between her and Bruce and of course the ultimate second chance with Barry reversing time at the end. I did chuckle that Supes ended up being resurrected twice in one movie as a result of that, lol. Just great all around feels that I pretty much always want in a larger than life superhero movie, no matter how dire the stakes.

4. The action is just top notch throughout and despite the insane run time I never find myself checking my watch waiting for the good stuff to happen. It's all good stuff. Like I said earlier interesting quiet moments and character development with just enough action to consistently break it up.

5. Steppenwolf is awesome in this movie. His look, voice, and speeches remind me of Darkness from Ridley Scott's Legend making him both interesting to watch on screen and really fun to root against. He's a real powerhouse cutting through the Amazons and Atlaneans to the point where I found myself feeling kind of bad for those who couldn't escape his brutality.

6. Darkseid is cool. I saw a while back that there was some criticism leveled against him for being shown to lose his first on-screen battle but he was still kicking *** left and right and singlehandedly took out a Lantern before being overwhelmed so I don't consider his intro to be any worse than Sauron's defeat at the beginning of FOTR.

7. Knightmare. Wow, what can I say about this sequence that hasn't already been said. One of the best back and forths between Batman and Joker EVER. Other than the dumb reach around line it was pretty much perfect. I love that both got in each other's heads which you don't usually see, normally it's just one or the other getting the upper hand with the mind****. But no Joker was pushing all of Bruce's buttons and Bruce clearly rattled Joker with his pledge to fulfill Harley Quinn's dying promise. And then of course to save face for his reaction the Joker had to quickly play it off as if Bruce was bluffing. GREAT stuff.

Also there's something poignantly "meta" about the whole Knightmare epilogue, especially now that I know that it was filmed recently and not part of the original production shoot. That means that all the actors themselves were really in different places in their own lives as well, having suffered through any number of global and personal issues. A worldwide pandemic, lapses back into rehab, the ****storm that Amber Heard brought on herself, Leto getting unceremoniously ignored by Birds of Prey and upstaged by Phoenix, Ezra's Irish choking controversy, and of course Zack's own tragedy of losing his daughter and then having a usurper butcher his work. We really were watching a group of people who'd been through the ringer, both due to outside global events, poor choices, and personal tragedies. It gave the entire hellscape sequence just that extra level of authenticity that was impossible to ignore.

But I also like that you kind of *can* ignore it as a dreamlike "worst case scenario" that doesn't have to play out exactly the way that we saw. That somehow with the team's newfound unity, extra assistance from the likes of Martian Manhunter and others, and knowing in advance that "Lois is the key" that maybe it will all be avoided. I'm a sap when it comes to these things so I like to have that happy ending option for my own head canon.

When it's all said and done I just like being in this world and experiencing the ups and downs and ultimate triumphs beautifully captured on screen. That freeze frame moment of the the team in mid leap surrounding the charging batmobile put a smile on my face like few superhero films have.

Sure it'd be cool to see more Knightmare stuff but like the T2 future war I can be content with what we got. At least the promise of that war will never be screwed up or betrayed. I like that Snyder's DCEU is so accessible. Three movies, a single trilogy, done. Or an expanded trilogy if you want to cherry pick the first WW or Aquaman or what have you. Otherwise I'm totally fine with the Snyderverse ending on this awesome high note. This was a great win for "what could have been" and for a guy and his family who went through absolute hell and still stuck the landing in the end.

Nailed it! No lies detected here and I?m happy to bump, this very looong, but equally great, post so that people joining on the next page see it. I was watching this movie as a DCEU skeptic and critic until it won me over for all of the above reasons.

 

[The Buffinator]

I just finished watching the full four hours again last night too. I still spread it out over several nights and that's probably how I'll always watch it.

I *love* this film.

There's so much I love about this movie it'll be hard to express everything just because there's so much spread out over the entire four hours but here goes with a few:

1. The 6 chapters (plus epilogue) combined with the 4:3 aspect ration REALLY takes me back to those big TV miniseries "events" in the early 80's like Shogun. That makes this feel more "special" and super nostalgic.

And I really love the IMAX ratio. Yeah it's funny to be watching something with black bars on the sides but usually we have black bars on the top and bottom so a picture that doesn't perfectly fit our living room TV's is nothing new. What I *hate* is information being lost due to cropping and since 4:3 is how he framed and composed the shots that's what I want to see. It still pisses me off that we have to watch IW and EG as freaking pan & scan movies at home.

The vertical space is very well used and highlights the towering buildings (skyscapers, Greek and underwater pillars) and heroes very well. I love it. And the overall look and cinematography puts most other superhero flicks (and certainly every MCU movie) to shame.

2. I love all the little moments that allow this film to breathe and us to get to know the characters and more of the world they live in. Even the stuff that makes me chuckle like the sweater sniffing/singing and epic pouring of Lois' latte, lol. I love it all. Barry's extended intro, Victor's full backstory and scenes of him using his manipulation of cyberspace to help families in need, all the little moments like Bruce and Diana's hands touching on the mouse pad and Alfred showing her how to make tea. I wouldn't have wanted any of that stuff cut out.

3. The theme of "second chances" that permeates through the entire film, both within the context of the story and the production of this particular cut in the real world. Not just Supes coming back to life but Victor reconciling with his dad, Bruce recruiting a new boy wonder and getting faith that things will work out which he probably didn't have since he was a child, Diana bonding with a new pilot and hints of a potential romance between her and Bruce and of course the ultimate second chance with Barry reversing time at the end. I did chuckle that Supes ended up being resurrected twice in one movie as a result of that, lol. Just great all around feels that I pretty much always want in a larger than life superhero movie, no matter how dire the stakes.

OK, I have no idea what scenes you are referencing with the new boy wonder and new pilot comments. Please (PLEASE!!!) tell me that this is your imagination running wild, otherwise I think I must have unknowingly nodded off at some point and may have to rewatch this thing.

4. The action is just top notch throughout and despite the insane run time I never find myself checking my watch waiting for the good stuff to happen. It's all good stuff. Like I said earlier interesting quiet moments and character development with just enough action to consistently break it up.

5. Steppenwolf is awesome in this movie. His look, voice, and speeches remind me of Darkness from Ridley Scott's Legend making him both interesting to watch on screen and really fun to root against. He's a real powerhouse cutting through the Amazons and Atlaneans to the point where I found myself feeling kind of bad for those who couldn't escape his brutality.

6. Darkseid is cool. I saw a while back that there was some criticism leveled against him for being shown to lose his first on-screen battle but he was still kicking *** left and right and singlehandedly took out a Lantern before being overwhelmed so I don't consider his intro to be any worse than Sauron's defeat at the beginning of FOTR.

7. Knightmare. Wow, what can I say about this sequence that hasn't already been said. One of the best back and forths between Batman and Joker EVER. Other than the dumb reach around line it was pretty much perfect. I love that both got in each other's heads which you don't usually see, normally it's just one or the other getting the upper hand with the mind****. But no Joker was pushing all of Bruce's buttons and Bruce clearly rattled Joker with his pledge to fulfill Harley Quinn's dying promise. And then of course to save face for his reaction the Joker had to quickly play it off as if Bruce was bluffing. GREAT stuff.

Also there's something poignantly "meta" about the whole Knightmare epilogue, especially now that I know that it was filmed recently and not part of the original production shoot. That means that all the actors themselves were really in different places in their own lives as well, having suffered through any number of global and personal issues. A worldwide pandemic, lapses back into rehab, the ****storm that Amber Heard brought on herself, Leto getting unceremoniously ignored by Birds of Prey and upstaged by Phoenix, Ezra's Irish choking controversy, and of course Zack's own tragedy of losing his daughter and then having a usurper butcher his work. We really were watching a group of people who'd been through the ringer, both due to outside global events, poor choices, and personal tragedies. It gave the entire hellscape sequence just that extra level of authenticity that was impossible to ignore.

But I also like that you kind of *can* ignore it as a dreamlike "worst case scenario" that doesn't have to play out exactly the way that we saw. That somehow with the team's newfound unity, extra assistance from the likes of Martian Manhunter and others, and knowing in advance that "Lois is the key" that maybe it will all be avoided. I'm a sap when it comes to these things so I like to have that happy ending option for my own head canon.

When it's all said and done I just like being in this world and experiencing the ups and downs and ultimate triumphs beautifully captured on screen. That freeze frame moment of the the team in mid leap surrounding the charging batmobile put a smile on my face like few superhero films have.

Ironic that he left in the blatant rip-off of Whedon's slo-mo scene at the start of Age Of Ultron. So it was only Whedon's JL work that he refused to use in his cut. Got it!

Sure it'd be cool to see more Knightmare stuff but like the T2 future war I can be content with what we got. At least the promise of that war will never be screwed up or betrayed. I like that Snyder's DCEU is so accessible. Three movies, a single trilogy, done. Or an expanded trilogy if you want to cherry pick the first WW or Aquaman or what have you. Otherwise I'm totally fine with the Snyderverse ending on this awesome high note. This was a great win for "what could have been" and for a guy and his family who went through absolute hell and still stuck the landing in the end.

But that's just it - it never could have been. It's not officially part of the DC cinematic universe because it wasn't feasible to release the (IMO) excruciatingly long version Snyder delivered in cinemas. I'm happy for those of you who enjoy it so much, but if not for HBO Max and the pandemic coming along this would still be residing on Zack's laptop as the world's most expensive home movie.

:

Absolutely fantastic post! Thank you for taking the time to do this. I'm glad I read this before my next viewing because it's going to enhance the experience now. In particular, and as Bravomite mentioned, I love your point about how the real-world events that these actors went through has a meta symmetry to the context for their characters when coming back after several years to film the Knightmare future scene. Great stuff.

Also want to thank you for pointing out the theme of second chances. It's just one of the themes that will continue being overlooked because I think most people focus so much on plot and action. I was very glad to see this film make an effort to ensure that thematic value wasn't neglected, as that is surprisingly under-served quite a bit in superhero movies, imo.

I love how the story used Superman and Batman to execute so much of that thematic takeaway. Superman's death re-awakened an evil threat, and his resurrection helped silence it. And all the while, Bruce Wayne found faith and embraced fellowship for probably the first time in his adult life as a result of the fall and rise of Superman. Every bit of that storyline reinforced themes carried out throughout the film.

No wonder I'm so thirsty - you guys drank all of the Kool-Aid!!

It's great to know how much you enjoyed this. One of the few things I disagree with you about, though, is how content you are with an end to this Snyder story. I can't shake the nagging annoyance that there's an unfinished conclusion. I feel more cheated now because of how satisfying these 4 hours were.

Thanks again.

 

[Khev]

Well said Khev, really enjoyed reading your write up.

Glad to hear it Bravo!

I missed that point about the nightmare scenario that all the actors in real life were seeking some small measure of redemption themselves (Fisher as well with that whole controversary and even Cavill with moustache gate and then being replaced by the new superman project).

The dialogue between Joker and Batman sprinkled enough nuggets of their history that it allowed me to recontextualise Batman in BVS and understand how he ended up in that place and his arc between both movies was so much more satisfying as a result.

I didn't think I would like this movie and wanted to see it more out of intrigue and curiosity for what could have been than anything else. I really disliked Josstice league and Man of Steel and BVS were both bittersweet to me so I would not in anyway describe myself as a 'cultist' haha but I am a card carrying long suffering DC fan.

Yep I too was more amused than anything that this version of the movie was actually going to see the light of day. I didn't want it to fail nor did I care if it did fail. But now seeing the end result I absolutely love it and it has allowed me to retroactively appreciate BvS much more now. MoS is still lolz due to Pa Kent lolnados and what not but I accept it all as a coherent trilogy now.

Too early to rank this amongst superhero movies for me (need to see it a few more times) but it is going to end up near the top half of the table for sure.

Yeah. Sure for filmmaking quality I too put BB, TDK, Logan, and Joker at the very top. But for sheer genuine superhero entertainment value I see ZSJL as being a Top 5 contender for sure.

It's actually a good scene, but it doesn't fit in the film, especially at the end?

As for Joker saving face, I looked at it differently. He was clearly rattled, but it was almost like he was offended or like Batman hurt his feelings by talking to him in that manner, something he's not used to, because I think when Joker called himself Bruce's "best friend," he actually meant it. In his own way, the idea that Batman would kill him is like a a betrayal.

It's a cool scene, the blurry moments, the music, it's cool and I want more in the universe, but it serves no purpose in the JL film.

If it wasn't in the movie then Flash appearing in BvS would have been this weird unresolved thread. The Knightmare scene in ZSJL showing Barry in the funky armor get up closes that loop well enough for me. Sure it's ambiguous as to whether the apocalypse will fully play out and if it does how the war will end, but I'm okay with that. We've now seen enough in my mind for the Knightmare setting to have a satisfying enough place in the overall story. I do understand why many will feel forever unsatisfied that we didn't see the entire war and its resolution however, I'm just okay with what we got.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Many "Return of Evil" stories start with Evil being cast out... very Biblical.

Indeed.

 

[Khev]

Absolutely fantastic post! Thank you for taking the time to do this. I'm glad I read this before my next viewing because it's going to enhance the experience now. In particular, and as Bravomite mentioned, I love your point about how the real-world events that these actors went through has a meta symmetry to the context for their characters when coming back after several years to film the Knightmare future scene. Great stuff.

Also want to thank you for pointing out the theme of second chances. It's just one of the themes that will continue being overlooked because I think most people focus so much on plot and action. I was very glad to see this film make an effort to ensure that thematic value wasn't neglected, as that is surprisingly under-served quite a bit in superhero movies, imo.

I love how the story used Superman and Batman to execute so much of that thematic takeaway. Superman's death re-awakened an evil threat, and his resurrection helped silence it. And all the while, Bruce Wayne found faith and embraced fellowship for probably the first time in his adult life as a result of the fall and rise of Superman. Every bit of that storyline reinforced themes carried out throughout the film.

It's great to know how much you enjoyed this. One of the few things I disagree with you about, though, is how content you are with an end to this Snyder story. I can't shake the nagging annoyance that there's an unfinished conclusion. I feel more cheated now because of how satisfying these 4 hours were.

Thanks again.

Thanks ajp!!!

I also love that this was an unabashed attempt at bringing solid escapist superhero fare to the screen free from seemingly all virtue signaling or political agendas. Diana was just "one of the guys," neither morally above the rest nor elevated above them in overall importance. Just a kickass Amazon in a great comic book-y costume doing her part for the team. Neither was Cyborg or any person of color given a platform to preach wokeness from. Again, Victor was just another guy working out his own issues. It was a damn shame that his part was so hacked to pieces in the Whedon cut. No director virtue signaling cameo as the "first openly gay such and such in the DCEU" or any of that crap. Yes there was a scene of all ladies trying to play keep away from the main bad guy but it made contextual sense and actually *served* the story rather than serving as nothing but a chant "yay feminism." Just solid agenda free entertainment that we might not see much of again in either superhero cinematic universe for the foreseeable future.

 

[Khev]

Nailed it! No lies detected here and I?m happy to bump, this very looong, but equally great, post so that people joining on the next page see it. I was watching this movie as a DCEU skeptic and critic until it won me over for all of the above reasons.

Awesome, thanks man!

OK, I have no idea what scenes you are referencing with the new boy wonder and new pilot comments. Please (PLEASE!!!) tell me that this is your imagination running wild, otherwise I think I must have unknowingly nodded off at some point and may have to rewatch this thing.

Young Barry was a second chance at recruiting a boy wonder onto the team and Bruce was hinted at being a replacement for Trevor as hinted at by their on screen chemistry and Diana's comment that "she once knew a man that would have loved to fly" Bruce's fancy plane. So it was like he was her new pilot guy. That was a fun takeaway for me though, your mileage may vary.

For a supposedly dark movie it really elevates your spirit while watching it

I’m just blown away on how effortless it was to sit thru those 4 hours!

Oh by the way my wife loved it absolutely loved it!

While the aspect ratio didn’t bother me and I get what he was going for and for the most part it worked but at the end of the day it’s still should’ve been 1:85 and he would’ve achieved the same results while being more immersive.

That is my only gripe

I loved Flash’s (window) and Aquaman’s (smashing waves) slow music scenes!

I know right!! And what the hell with random Icelandic sweater chick in your sig being more badass than JOHN WALKER CAP!!!!

 

[ajp4mgs]

No wonder I'm so thirsty - you guys drank all of the Kool-Aid!!



View attachment 509341

I enjoyed this damned movie so much that I've been somewhat reluctant to start watching it a second time because I don't want it to have been a fluke experience. But jye and Khev having seen it without diminishing returns is all the reassurance I need.

But I'll draw the line at the black and white version. The only way a de-colorized version would work for me is if everything was in black and white *until* Superman is shown for the first time with the suit on (symbolically marking his official return to "restore the light"). That would at least have some artistic statement behind it to differentiate the realities with and without Superman. And it'd be cool if the color could slowly be added to the screen as he stands there, and with the expectation that his suit colors return to blue and red... but of course his suit stays black. I'd dig that. Otherwise, I gotta have the colors.

Thanks ajp!!!

I also love that this was an unabashed attempt at bringing solid escapist superhero fare to the big screen free from seemingly all virtue signaling or political agendas. Diana was just "one of the guys," neither morally above the rest nor elevated above them in overall importance. Just a kickass Amazon in a great comic book-y costume doing her part for the team. Neither was Cyborg or any person of color given a platform to preach wokeness from. Again, Victor was just another guy working out his own issues. It was a damn shame that his part was so hacked to pieces in the Whedon cut. No director virtue signaling cameo as the "first openly gay such and such in the DCEU" or any of that crap. Just solid agenda free entertainment that we might not see much of again in either superhero cinematic universe for the foreseeable future.

YEP! Very well said. A return to fun for the sake of fun. Refreshing and overdue. Let's hope there's more of an effort to emulate that going forward.

 

[guyver1]

I wonder why Zac originally wanted to kill WW..that was disturbing in the SC

Who cares about Mira surviving ..why kill off Diana

 

[Khev]

I enjoyed this damned movie so much that I've been somewhat reluctant to start watching it a second time because I don't want it to have been a fluke experience. But jye and Khev having seen it without diminishing returns is all the reassurance I need.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts after a second viewing.

YEP! Very well said. A return to fun for the sake of fun. Refreshing and overdue. Let's hope there's more of an effort to emulate that going forward.

Indeed! And I had added an extra line to my previous post (too late for you to read) comparing all the Amazons racing with the Mother Box to the Lady Avengers racing with the Infinity Gauntlet:

Yes there was a scene of all ladies trying to play keep away from the main bad guy but it made contextual sense and actually *served* the story rather than serving as nothing but a chant "yay feminism."

Pretty funny that there were two scenes so similar at face value but so different in how they served the story. Also funny that the Amazon Mother Box race was one of the biggest jokes of the Whedon cut but pretty damn cool under Snyder.

And I agree, the color palette was perfect as is. No thanks on a B&W version.

 

[TheDucky]

Do you guys think Aquaman banged that Sweater Sniffer? Imagine what else she would sniff.

 

[guyver1]

Do you guys think Aquaman banged that Sweater Sniffer? Imagine what else she would sniff.

Probably he forgot while chugging a bottle of Jack

 

[TheDucky]

Probably he forgot while chugging a bottle of Jack

I guess that is what makes Snyder's artistic vision so grand. The sniff represents so much more than just a nutty girl getting a whiff of God Odor. It is a sniff of memory's past, of longing, of betrayal, of a forgotten love. It makes Aquaman's character deeper and shows the struggles of a man stuck between two worlds and how he deals with those struggles (drinking and ***).

Snyder is truly a master at his craft with such subtleties.

 

[abake]

Epic post Khev, I agree with everything you said, and you pointed out some stuff that I hadn't noticed.

I really love how MoS, BvS and JL (no need to put the ZS anymore, the other one simply doesn't count) go in a wonderful crescendo of exploring these Superheroes.

MoS is this exploration of how a man struggles to come to terms with insane powers, the sacrifices his family must do, and then the sacrifices he must do to finally accept himself and takes his place in the world. It's quite literally Clark Kent's path to Godhood.
BvS expands on the theme by exploring how the world reacts to such a being walking the earth. Superman has accepted his own role (or tries to), but the world's not quite there yet: do we distrust and fear him, or do we worship him?
And finally JL closes the loop by exploring all these "gods", their own traumas, their motivations, their own paths to take their place. It's interesting to see that nearly the entire movie happens in a sort of bubble, there is very little reference of the rest of the world in it, it really focuses on the heroes. MoS and BvS went to great pains to show the fallout of these beings and their deeds on the common population, and also what it did to them: Batman a bitter cynic who has lost his faith in the good of men, Diana a recluse who has been hiding, and Superman full of doubt. JL picks up there and just focuses on the "new gods". And I love that it happens out of the sight of the common man, nobody knows what traumas or sacrifices these heroes have gone through, they just expect them to be there and save the day, and don't care about the sacrifices they made. That's a very cool look at it.

Anyway, I'm really happy that many people are enjoying this.

 

[jye4ever]

The reason ZS prefers B&W is because that’s the only way he watched the movie at home for years.

There was that one silly scene where the white folks backed away from Cyborg because he was wearing a hoodie har har get it whites are afraid of blacks in hoodies lol

 

[jye4ever]

Is anyone else hearing that Disney is now working on either a 6 hour cut of EG alone OR IW cut together with EG?

If this is true WB should fire every executive!

 

[Khev]

Anyway, I'm really happy that many people are enjoying this.

Same.

There was that one silly scene where the white folks backed away from Cyborg because he was wearing a hoodie har har get it whites are afraid of blacks in hoodies lol

I took it as them being frightened by his prosthetic body and glowing eye but yeah I suppose he did have a hoodie on as well, lol.

I did get a chuckle over how eeeeeeevil the one trucker was made out to be who ran the intersection in front of Flash. All speeding through a highly populated urban center eating his burger all nasty and then seemingly speeding up in response to dropping it on the floor, lol. And then Viktor's mom gets taken out by a very similar looking truck. Was it the same guy or is there just a fleet of evil truckers out hunting black women, lol.

 

[jye4ever]