Zack Snyder's Justice League

[The Buffinator]

This isn't an answer. Answer my question. Where does Batman shoot and kill with guns. I want to see a comic where Batman spends 75%+ of his time fighting shooting guns like he did in ZSJL. I want to see a comic where batman shoots and kills like Punisher like he did in ZSJL. I want to see it. You must not have watched the movie if you think he shoots only one guy. The entire time he is shooting parademons with a gun or the batmobile.

C'mon McDuck, you seriously have a problem with Batman shooting at parademons? They're not even human. Hell, initially in the tunnel under Gotham Harbor he wasn't shooting at them at all UNTIL he was fired upon & had to disarm one of them, THEN he started shooting at them with one of their own weapons. After that encounter, anything less than what he outfitted the Batmobile with would have been akin to bringing a knife to a gunfight. There were several things I didn't care for in the movie, but Batman justifiably using some heavy duty firepower wasn't one of them. This wasn't him trying to apprehend The Riddler, it was war.

 

[abake]

It's like none of you can actually read what I originally wrote. I'll bold it this time.



Find me a comic where Batman goes Punisher. I'll wait.

I think it's you who has a comprehension difficulty dude...

I said there are other instances where Batman uses guns and kills people.
If you want to dispute that, good luck, but here's a couple of examples, so you don't have to google it:

Miller's TDKR: Batman shoots a female member of the Mutants who threatened to kill the kid they had kidnapped.
Burton's films: Batman incinerates, bombs and drops people down to the street from great heights.

So there you go, different media, Batman killing people. Oh, and he does kill people in Nolan's movies as well.

And you are still completely dodging the issue of the entire point of how Batman is portrayed in BvS.

 

[Khev]

Man I can't wait to binge remastered BvS along with ZSJL. Even though I preordered BvS I'm still tempted to just eat another $9.99 to watch it on Movies Anywhere, lol. Come on HBO MAX freaking add it already!

 

[ajp4mgs]

That WW bank scene ending with the kid just might be my most favorite superhero moment ever put on film sorry On Your Left Avengers Assemble Cap lol

Don?t worry parents i?m here to protect your children from these bad men now watch as I turn them all into mush and then disintegrate the last guy and destroy infrastructure even though I could have easily tied him up with my lasso.....

Oh hi little girl did those scary men frighten you lol

And one of the bad men that WW turned into mush was by tossing him into a column on the wall so hard that his head left a basketball-sized blood print. Can you imagine how traumatizing that would be for a kid to see? Then yeah, she obliterates that last guy (and the entire wall!) and turns around by saying the equivalent of, "Okay kids, who wants some ice cream?" That's fantastic.

But maybe the best part is actually that one girl who watched the massacre and was inspired to be just like WW. I mean, holy crap! So that kid is gonna go to bed dreaming of growing up and crushing skulls so hard that blood paints the wall? That's just creepy enough to be awesome.

That scene is great for plenty of the right reasons, and plenty of the wrong ones too. Gotta love it!

 

[ajp4mgs]

Man I can't wait to binge remastered BvS along with ZSJL. Even though I preordered BvS I'm still tempted to just eat another $9.99 to watch it on Movies Anywhere, lol. Come on HBO MAX freaking add it already!

Yeah, BvS is more appealing as a re-watch now.

But the true viewing experience, particularly for anyone interested in getting into filmmaking, would be to watch the Whedon cut followed by the Snyder Cut. Just think about what a masterclass that would be on how to take the same basic plot but change the tone so much that you get a completely different type of story.

And I'm not crapping on the Whedon version, but just from a film study POV, it makes for a fascinating case study.

 

[The Buffinator]

Yeah, BvS is more appealing as a re-watch now.

But the true viewing experience, particularly for anyone interested in getting into filmmaking, would be to watch the Whedon cut followed by the Snyder Cut. Just think about what a masterclass that would be on how to take the same basic plot but change the tone so much that you get a completely different type of story.

And I'm not crapping on the Whedon version, but just from a film study POV, it makes for a fascinating case study.

It would be fascinating, but wouldn't you have to watch the Snyder Cut first, then the Whedon version? Whedon did the changing, not vice-versa. That's what I find funny about the story that Snyder's footage only existed on his laptop. Maybe in the final, assembled form he wanted to release, but it's readily apparent that Whedon had access to everything Snyder had filmed (save for the stuff he tacked on late last year). After all, It's not as if it was Snyder's property and WB was going to let him simply abscond with it when he departed the production.

 

[abake]

That's true, as bizarre as it sounds.
Whedon had his hands on a lot of very good scenes that he chose to change into worse scenes.

The Red Letter Media guys make a good analysis of it. I don't always agree with their reviews, and they can be a bit obnoxious at times, but they're aways fun to watch.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Who did batman shoot with guns in ZSJL, parademons? Did you even watch the movie????? Mcu Captain america has 100x the kill count as bvs batman but thats ok right, cause he, like batman, used guns in the comics. Nether cap or batman are like punisher that doesnt mean they didnt ever use guns and kill people. i wont even bring up bales batman

 

[ajp4mgs]

It would be fascinating, but wouldn't you have to watch the Snyder Cut first, then the Whedon version? Whedon did the changing, not vice-versa. That's what I find funny about the story that Snyder's footage only existed on his laptop. Maybe in the final, assembled form he wanted to release, but it's readily apparent that Whedon had access to everything Snyder had filmed (save for the stuff he tacked on late last year). After all, It's not as if it was Snyder's property and WB was going to let him simply abscond with it when he departed the production.

Yeah, I suppose that's a good case for watching them in the order you're suggesting. Fair enough.

I think it'd work either way as long as whoever is watching is aware of which is the original version as filmed by the original director. It certainly played that way for me having seen the Whedon version first. But now you've got me wondering how different my takeaway would be if I'd seen them in the opposite order. I'll never know.

 

[Khev]

And one of the bad men that WW turned into mush was by tossing him into a column on the wall so hard that his head left a basketball-sized blood print. Can you imagine how traumatizing that would be for a kid to see? Then yeah, she obliterates that last guy (and the entire wall!) and turns around by saying the equivalent of, "Okay kids, who wants some ice cream?" That's fantastic.

But maybe the best part is actually that one girl who watched the massacre and was inspired to be just like WW. I mean, holy crap! So that kid is gonna go to bed dreaming of growing up and crushing skulls so hard that blood paints the wall? That's just creepy enough to be awesome.

That scene is great for plenty of the right reasons, and plenty of the wrong ones too. Gotta love it!

So true.

And I've seen some people say that the bank scene really doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the movie but one great thing about it is that minimizes the need to watch the WW solo film. By including that scene rescue allows you to get everything you need to know about all the characters and how they operate from his trilogy of films alone.

 

[Khev]

And I agree if you're going to binge JL and ZSJL it would be best to do it Zack first Joss second. I think if you watch Joss first then a lot of ZSJL might still have his "stink" on it if you watch it immediately after and are reminded of the scenes that both films share. But watch ZS and then Whedon you get that untainted first experience and then get to just howl with laughter at what comes next, lol.

But yes what a case study to have such a major release tell the exact same story with a lot of the same footage but overseen by two totally different directors to wildly opposite results.

 

[ajp4mgs]

And I agree if you're going to binge JL and ZSJL it would be best to do it Zack first Joss second. I think if you watch Joss first then a lot of ZSJL might still have his "stink" on it if you watch it immediately after and are reminded of the scenes that both films share. But watch ZS and then Whedon you get that untainted first experience and then get to just howl with laughter at what comes next, lol.

But yes what a case study to have such a major release tell the exact same story with a lot of the same footage but overseen by two totally different directors to wildly opposite results.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

And I agree if you're going to binge JL and ZSJL it would be best to do it Zack first Joss second. I think if you watch Joss first then a lot of ZSJL might still have his "stink" on it if you watch it immediately after and are reminded of the scenes that both films share. But watch ZS and then Whedon you get that untainted first experience and then get to just howl with laughter at what comes next, lol.

But yes what a case study to have such a major release tell the exact same story with a lot of the same footage but overseen by two totally different directors to wildly opposite results.

Same can be said for bvs theatrical vs the unrated, it leaves a massive stink in your mouth. Just like jumping the gun and bailing out of a planned story arc after the 2nd film. Ironically, Had warner not meddled we would be watching the final film in zacks 5 trilogy arc right now instead of jl 1. We would be seeing everything we want to see now but most likely will never get too see. Then once it finished and they had our good graces, wb would get their new reboot they so badly wanted to do 7-8 years ago

 

[The Buffinator]

That's true, as bizarre as it sounds.
Whedon had his hands on a lot of very good scenes that he chose to change into worse scenes.

The Red Letter Media guys make a good analysis of it. I don't always agree with their reviews, and they can be a bit obnoxious at times, but they're aways fun to watch.

You say that like the choice to change those scenes was strictly Whedon?s lol. It is pretty obvious that he had marching orders to change the tone completely and cut it down to two hours. I think there?s a reason he was happy to leave the directing credits to Snyder.

 

[Khev]

You say that like the choice to change those scenes was strictly Whedon?s lol. It is pretty obvious that he had marching orders to change the tone completely and cut it down to two hours. I think there?s a reason he was happy to leave the directing credits to Snyder.

Well "lighten the tone and decrease the run time" isn't the same thing as saying "add a scene where Diana punches Bruce across the room for saying Trevor's name and then have her give him a shoulder rub two scenes later."

Or "WW is way too dignified in Zack's cut. Can you make her land on her back so Flash can motorboat her chest?"

It seems pretty clear to me that Joss was out of his mind with pretty much all of his "improvements."

 

[abake]

Agreed with Khev, "make it lighter" does not in any way account for some of the directorial choices made by Whedon.

 

[The Buffinator]

Well "lighten the tone and decrease the run time" isn't the same thing as saying "add a scene where Diana punches Bruce across the room for saying Trevor's name and then have her give him a shoulder rub two scenes later."

Or "WW is way too dignified in Zack's cut. Can you make her land on her back so Flash can motorboat her chest?"

It seems pretty clear to me that Joss was out of his mind with pretty much all of his "improvements."

Oddly enough, the catalyst that led to that exchange (their debating the merits/pitfalls of attempting to resurrect Clark with the MB) as well as Bruce's calling Diana on shutting herself off for a century are what I consider to be among the few positive elements Whedon brought to the project. Well, that and cutting out the seaside chanteuses, sweater sniffing, Parthenon tomb raiding, multiple coffee deliveries and Snyder's lame song choices lol. Oh, and resetting his dislocated shoulder came after they'd resurrected Clark and he threw Bruce @100 feet into the side of a car. So more of a peace offering than a massage, and certainly no worse than awkwardly touching hands while using a computer mouse. They're seasoned superheroes, not junior high kids!

Agreed with Khev, "make it lighter" does not in any way account for some of the directorial choices made by Whedon.

I can't argue with you there, but having now seen what he had to whittle down to 2 hours I'm actually impressed that what he stitched together turned out as well as it did. 3/4 of "Josstice League" is still either what Snyder shot or subtle variations of it (and please, let's not debate over my using the word subtle lol), so to toss over half of ZS's footage & still deliver something even remotely resembling a complete movie was (in retrospect) somewhat miraculous (also evidence of how truly bloated the Snyder Cut is). An interesting assignment for AJP's film class would be to give them the same assignment Whedon received (with the same parameters) and see if anyone could do better.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Did anyone notice that when Darkseid uses his omega beams under water, it spells "END"....that is pure Snyderian cringe.

 

[e30ernest]

Did anyone notice that when Darkseid uses his omega beams under water, it spells "END"....that is pure Snyderian cringe.

That's not "End". It just looks like "E N D" in our language, but it means a totally different thing. Just like that "S" in Superman's chest is not an "S" at all.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Take this with a grain of salt but this new superman flick may not be a reboot after all. ZSJL already making warner reconsider certain aspects of the reboot lol

A recent leak claims to reveal several details about J.J. Abrams and Ta-Nehisi Coates' Superman Reboot, including that the movie will be set within the DCEU and feature a black actor as the Man of Steel. However, this will not take the place of Henry Cavill's Clark Kent/Kal-El, who will still exist in this iteration, with Abrams and Coates' Superman said to be a new character.

"The part I was excited for was that Kal-El is NOT the last son of Krypton. There are others and has been a goal for Warner Bros to include more representation in their characters. As it was pitched, this character will exist in the same Universe as the likes of Wonder Woman and Aquaman. Won't be a one off like Joker or The Batman. Heard nothing about Clark Kent being involved in the Coates/Abrams pitch. But Cavill's Superman would be the inspiration for the other Kryptonians engaging the world. Whether that Superman is Cavill or not, I have no clue. The only thing I heard was that Cavill was in negotiations last Spring. Of course that's way before this new Superman film was pitched so I don't know what role his Superman would have played."