Zack Snyder's Justice League

[The Buffinator]

Is it possible Snyder was under similar orders and that's the real reason he walked? Remember he continued working on it for a while after his daughter's death.

And would it have turned out that much different if Snyder had stayed and toed the company line?

IIRC Snyder was quoted as saying that he left in part because he simply didn't have the energy to keep fighting for his vision of the movie, so that and his daughter's death were why he decided to leave. If he's stayed I think WB still would have eventually forced a parting of the ways over "creative differences", so no I don't think it would have played out much differently.

If only the announcement that Whedon was only brought on to help with the script was true. If they actually collaborated on it I think it could have been amazing, what with Zack's visuals & action scenes and Joss's ability to construct a tight narrative. The two of them together probably could have convinced the suits that a 2hr 30min to 2hr 45min run time was required. The result probably would have rivaled IW in terms of quality, and we'd now be discussing our theories for the COVID delayed JL2 release this summer. If only...

 

[jye4ever]

Where the Snyder die hards start to lose me is with them saying that the Batman Joker show down in ZSJL is the most epic showdown between the two characters ever

sigh

 

[jye4ever]

But is that sequence actually a precursor to the BVS knightmare sequence because doesn’t batman already have the card in BVS.

 

[jal76]

IIRC Snyder was quoted as saying that he left in part because he simply didn't have the energy to keep fighting for his vision of the movie, so that and his daughter's death were why he decided to leave. If he's stayed I think WB still would have eventually forced a parting of the ways over "creative differences", so no I don't think it would have played out much differently.

If only the announcement that Whedon was only brought on to help with the script was true. If they actually collaborated on it I think it could have been amazing, what with Zack's visuals & action scenes and Joss's ability to construct a tight narrative. The two of them together probably could have convinced the suits that a 2hr 30min to 2hr 45min run time was required. The result probably would have rivaled IW in terms of quality, and we'd now be discussing our theories for the COVID delayed JL2 release this summer. If only...

Buffy great, Angel, great, Firefly great, but that was all he had. Other than than Whedon is a hack. Feiges Avengers movies are great but AOU suffered because of what was probably them allowing Whedon more control after the success of The Avengers.
Perfectly happy with the Whedon-free 4 hour Justice League movie that we finally got. Not even remotely interested in some weird collaboration hybrid that could have only been worse since we already saw what Whedon brought to the table.

 

[The Buffinator]

But is that sequence actually a precursor to the BVS knightmare sequence because doesn’t batman already have the card in BVS.

Well, the my Hot Toys figure from BvS has it, so I'm going to say yes lol...

 

[YoNoSe]

It was smart to have the Joker give a brief summary of thier notable confrontations. So we don't have to waste any time on those.
Snydercutz.

 

[jye4ever]

It was smart to have the Joker give a brief summary of thier notable confrontations. So we don't have to waste any time on those.
Snydercutz.

Make sure you ask your barber for a Snyder Cut lol

 

[The Buffinator]

Buffy great, Angel, great, Firefly great, but that was all he had. Other than than Whedon is a hack. Feiges Avengers movies are great but AOU suffered because of what was probably them allowing Whedon more control after the success of The Avengers.
Perfectly happy with the Whedon-free 4 hour Justice League movie that we finally got. Not even remotely interested in some weird collaboration hybrid that could have only been worse since we already saw what Whedon brought to the table.

Check your facts - he also co-wrote the story AND wrote the screenplay for The Avengers, so if three great television shows AND the greatest superhero team-up in cinematic history is your definition of "hack" then I don't know what to tell you.

To clarify, my vision of their collaboration would have been for Whedon to help convince Zack to trim a lot of the fat (seaside chanting, sweater sniffing, coffee deliveries, etc.) and/or move it to post-credits scenes (Martian Manhunter, Knightmare scene) to get it down to a releasable length, plus punch-up the intrateam dialogue. The movie would still be 99% Zack's, there just would be less of it.

 

[YoNoSe]

Make sure you ask your barber for a Snyder Cut lol

The Donner Cut IS looking a little dated, Mr. Wayne.

 

[jye4ever]

 

[Ropen]

The flash doesn't suck, but this version with Ezra Miller sure does. They made him more like Kid Flash. I still haven't watched this yet (maybe next week) but Ezra is awful as Flash. So I have no desire for the upcoming Flash movie. As long as it is based on this character, there is no way I will like it or be able to enjoy it.

As for Lex...

I don't get WB at all. The last 2 versions of Lex have been so awful. Zuckerberg is one of the reasons I can't stand BvS and was never able to rewatch the UE version. The minute I see him on screen, I just think **** NO and get totally taken out of the movie. And then on CW Supergirl they cast John Cryer. I honestly don't know which is worse.

We have never seen a good, serious evil businessman Lex Luthor. I want Lex from the JL cartoon. Gene Hackman/Kevin Spacey was a petty criminal "genius" who couldn't get past real estate in 2 attempts. And awful comedy attempts. Kevin Spacey just followed the formula and tried to be a more serious Gene Hackman.

Neither ruined the movie like Zuckerberg did, but c'mon WB... Give us a serious bad *** Lex Luthor already!!!

I would love to see a Superman against Lex in some cool *** looking Power Armor.

What killed Luthor for me to be honest was his theme song, the piano off key and violin ruined it for me, not every character needs a theme song


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[jal76]

Check your facts - he also co-wrote the story AND wrote the screenplay for The Avengers, so if three great television shows AND the greatest superhero team-up in cinematic history is your definition of "hack" then I don't know what to tell you.

To clarify, my vision of there collaboration would have been for Whedon to help convince Zack to trim a lot of the fat (seaside chanting, sweater sniffing, coffee deliveries, etc.) and/or move it to post-credits scenes (Martian Manhunter, Knightmare scene) to get it down to a releasable length, plus punch-up the intrateam dialogue. The movie would still be 99% Zack's, there just would be less of it.

Great artists become hacks all the time.
Whedon gave all of his good stuff back in the nineties and early zeros and now he?s a hack. Nothing left.
Check your facts, Kevin Feige is the visionary responsible for those Avengers movies.
If you really think they gave Whedon, the TV guy with one box office flop under his belt, much more control than writing punchy insults for the characters to trade back and forth them you?ve got some research to do.
I think when they hired Whedon he was in the middle of writing a very successful run on the X-Men comic book, yep, a true cinematic heavyweight at the time.
He walked right into the studios biggest production that they had spent a decade building and really told them how things were going to be.
He was a regular Stanley Kubrick on that set I?m sure.
Do you think that Richard Marquand?s vision brought us Return of the Jedi too?
Those Avengers movies were Feige?s.
He has given some filmmakers a little latitude, but don?t fool yourself into thinking that someone like Whedon got it on something like an Avengers movie.
And what would he really bring? We heard his punched up intrateam dialogue.
More Aquaman tied in the lasso of truth. Nope, I?m all good on cringe.
How about more scenes were Flash is face down in Wonder Woman?s chest?
Good on that too.
Personally I am not looking for any changes to the movie we got.
Also not sorry that we will never see or hear from Whedon again. It?s a suitable punishment for taking something so good and turning it into something so bad.
Any one of us does such bad work at our jobs, we lose our job, so it makes sense he loses his too.
I?ll still watch old Angel episodes though.

 

[Khev]

Great artists become hacks all the time.
Whedon gave all of his good stuff back in the nineties and early zeros and now he?s a hack. Nothing left.
Check your facts, Kevin Feige is the visionary responsible for those Avengers movies.
If you really think they gave Whedon, the TV guy with one box office flop under his belt, much more control than writing punchy insults for the characters to trade back and forth them you?ve got some research to do.
I think when they hired Whedon he was in the middle of writing a very successful run on the X-Men comic book, yep, a true cinematic heavyweight at the time.
He walked right into the studios biggest production that they had spent a decade building and really told them how things were going to be.
He was a regular Stanley Kubrick on that set I?m sure.
Do you think that Richard Marquand?s vision brought us Return of the Jedi too?
Those Avengers movies were Feige?s.
He has given some filmmakers a little latitude, but don?t fool yourself into thinking that someone like Whedon got it on something like an Avengers movie.
And what would he really bring? We heard his punched up intrateam dialogue.
More Aquaman tied in the lasso of truth. Nope, I?m all good on cringe.
How about more scenes were Flash is face down in Wonder Woman?s chest?
Good on that too.
Personally I am not looking for any changes to the movie we got.
Also not sorry that we will never see or hear from Whedon again. It?s a suitable punishment for taking something so good and turning it into something so bad.
Any one of us does such bad work at our jobs, we lose our job, so it makes sense he loses his too.
I?ll still watch old Angel episodes though.

Hmm, while I prefer IW/EG and ZSJL to both of Whedon's Avengers flicks I think you're still not giving credit where it is due. A lot of people credit the scene where the Avengers are all arguing in the Helicarrier as the best scene in the film and Whedon has gone into great detail at how stressful that was to pull off. That was definitely him. He did confess to not directing a lot of the second unit/VFX scenes but that's normal. The Russos didn't direct the Fury chase but we still give them credit for TWS don't we?

And the theatrical JL showed us just how NOT a sure thing a highly anticipated team-up movie can be and the first Avengers film hit it out of the park and set the precedent that all studios try to copy to this day. I agree that I think his time is done but I definitely wouldn't call him a hack who barely contributed to the MCU.

 

[The Buffinator]

Great artists become hacks all the time.
Whedon gave all of his good stuff back in the nineties and early zeros and now he?s a hack. Nothing left.
Check your facts, Kevin Feige is the visionary responsible for those Avengers movies.
If you really think they gave Whedon, the TV guy with one box office flop under his belt, much more control than writing punchy insults for the characters to trade back and forth them you?ve got some research to do.

Those Avengers movies were Feige?s.
He has given some filmmakers a little latitude, but don?t fool yourself into thinking that someone like Whedon got it on something like an Avengers movie.

Feige is the visionary behind the interconnected Marvel universe, but part of his genius has been to recognize talent and then let them go to work. Sure, he's undoubtedly stepped in when someone's ideas don't jive with his overall plan (see Edgar Wright & Ant-Man), but you're just being disingenuous by not crediting Whedon for his writing and directing contributions on the first two Avengers films. Hell, back then Feige was probably doing cartwheels after landing someone with Whedon's rep within the comic/sci-fi community. Before The Avengers exploded onto the scene not many people even knew the name Kevin Feige lol.

So I suppose in your eyes the Russo brothers don't deserve any credit either? How about Ryan Coogler on Black Panther? Your apparent hatred for Whedon is blinding you to the facts. I'll grant you that he's done nothing of note since AoU, but your revisionist history is laughable.

 

[jal76]

Hmm, while I prefer IW/EG and ZSJL to both of Whedon's Avengers flicks I think you're still not giving credit where it is due. A lot of people credit the scene where the Avengers are all arguing in the Helicarrier as the best scene in the film and Whedon has gone into great detail at how stressful that was to pull off. That was definitely him. He did confess to not directing a lot of the second unit/VFX scenes but that's normal. The Russos didn't direct the Fury chase but we still give them credit for TWS don't we?

And the theatrical JL showed us just how NOT a sure thing a highly anticipated team-up movie can be and the first Avengers film hit it out of the park and set the precedent that all studios try to copy to this day. I agree that I think his time is done but I definitely wouldn't call him a hack who barely contributed to the MCU.

That?s fair. I?ll concede that the first Avengers was his last hurrah. But his work on Justice League confirms to me that he is now a spent force. I personally have zero interest in seeing anything else from him because his work on that one was just that bad.

 

[ajp4mgs]

To clarify, my vision of there collaboration would have been for Whedon to help convince Zack to trim a lot of the fat (seaside chanting, sweater sniffing, coffee deliveries, etc.) and/or move it to post-credits scenes (Martian Manhunter, Knightmare scene) to get it down to a releasable length, plus punch-up the intrateam dialogue. The movie would still be 99% Zack's, there just would be less of it.

You just reinforced for me why I need to be glad that things turned out the way they did.

If the studio would've insisted on cutting an hour (or more) off the movie to get a "releasable length," then I might never have gotten to see this version. And even this Snyder Cut is altered from his original intent (MM talking to Bruce at the end instead of a GL, Bruce/Lois relationship missing, etc.). And I prefer to see as much of the original vision as possible.

Do I like the seaside singing/chanting and sweater sniffing? Not really. But I can appreciate that it's being used to establish how Arthur is a reluctant king who can't help but be noble. The singing ladies (including "The Sniffer") might be a weird way to convey how he has been using his powers to perform "miracles" that inspire a quasi-religious level of appreciation, but it does establish context for one of the "New Gods" of Earth relative to the battle ahead.

Are the Lois coffee runs the most interesting things to watch? Of course not. But they establish how much a part of her daily routine it continues to be for her to mourn and reflect on the loss of Superman. It's also obvious setup for why she happens to be on the spot (near the Superman memorial) when he returns from the dead there and is about to burn up Batman.

If this was the only way to get the extended version, and a fuller window into this fictional world, then I will selfishly see it as everything having happened for the best. I want it all, and even want more.

 

[Ropen]

This movie has so many Easter eggs, one of them isn?t fully appreciated until you rewatch this, during the Superman/ justice league knightmare scene where Superman is holding Batman cowl, did anyone see that joker card cut in half? Ohhh *****tt


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[The Buffinator]

You just reinforced for me why I need to be glad that things turned out the way they did.

If the studio would've insisted on cutting an hour (or more) off the movie to get a "releasable length," then I might never have gotten to see this version. And even this Snyder Cut is altered from his original intent (MM talking to Bruce at the end instead of a GL, Bruce/Lois relationship missing, etc.). And I prefer to see as much of the original vision as possible.

Do I like the seaside singing/chanting and sweater sniffing? Not really. But I can appreciate that it's being used to establish how Arthur is a reluctant king who can't help but be noble. The singing ladies (including "The Sniffer") might be a weird way to convey how he has been using his powers to perform "miracles" that inspire a quasi-religious level of appreciation, but it does establish context for one of the "New Gods" of Earth relative to the battle ahead.

Are the Lois coffee runs the most interesting things to watch? Of course not. But they establish how much a part of her daily routine it continues to be for her to mourn and reflect on the loss of Superman. It's also obvious setup for why she happens to be on the spot (near the Superman memorial) when he returns from the dead there and is about to burn up Batman.

If this was the only way to get the extended version, and a fuller window into this fictional world, then I will selfishly see it as everything having happened for the best. I want it all, and even want more.

That's all fine, but in my fantasy version you would have gotten more because JL was a huge success in 2017 and paved the way for JL2 and JL3. As it stands now those sequels aren't likely to happen.

 

[jye4ever]

 

[ajp4mgs]

That's all fine, but in my fantasy version you would have gotten more because JL was a huge success in 2017 and paved the way for JL2 and JL3. As it stands now those sequels aren't likely to happen.

Stop making me feel conflicted! You're like a Sith lord.