Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon

[Otomofan]

I hope the director's cut has some naked ****ies in it.

What can I say? I'm a caveman. I like what I like.

 

[Wor-Gar]

But why'd he make two different versions of the same movie? He never truly says -- just the bizarro, heavy-metal version, whatever that really means. I think he just can't make up his mind half the time, which allows him to do multiple versions. I mean, a lot of the time you don't know what will really work until you have the whole thing together, so alternate takes are a must -- and not necessarily the "director's cut". He likely could make 7 versions if he wanted. That's why editor's are so important.

 

[chrisstbh]

But why'd he make two different versions of the same movie? He never truly says -- just the bizarro, heavy-metal version, whatever that really means. I think he just can't make up his mind half the time, which allows him to do multiple versions. I mean, a lot of the time you don't know what will really work until you have the whole thing together, so alternate takes are a must -- and not necessarily the "director's cut". He likely could make 7 versions if he wanted. That's why editor's are so important.

Because he is bad at making films

 

[MeatHookGekko]

But why'd he make two different versions of the same movie?

A shorter PG-13 version of the film is friendlier to the existing Netflix algorithms in place.

One of the reasons for shorter season that we've been seeing lately, besides a budgetary consideration, is it appeals to the metrics that tracks a series/film completion rate. Streaming allows you to take hard data on how fast viewers are consuming something, and if they are finishing everything presented to them. Lots of shows can get a decent sized audience for it's pilot episode, but a heavy fall off could now lead to a fast cancellation. Rings Of Power getting huge numbers for it's first two episodes means little to nothing. If people are staying up late and binge watching everything and finishing every episode, that's a positive sign for viewer retention for sequels, spin offs, more seasons, merchandising, etc, etc. Starting off with a 3 and a half hour version of Rebel Moon might have just broken a lot of casual viewers.

Snyder is attempting to rebuild a new "universe" Netflix is betting money on Snyder creating a new franchise that includes animation, TV shows, collectibles, graphic novels, etc, etc. That's the hope of any new story with lots of linked in world building. The standard bearer of course is Lucas and Star Wars. It's a cash printing machine. A longer version of Rebel Moon will naturally imply more material to stock the "universe" Imagine if the original Star Wars trilogy had an extra 15 minutes per film. We got 15 more minutes in a different Cantina, or another subsection of Cloud City, or some shipyards outside of Endor, etc, etc. Imagine how many TV shows, collectibles, video games, spin offs, graphic novels, etc, etc that you could pump out from all that material.

He's just making this harder than it needs to be. The theatrical release of Aliens is an incredible film. The extended cut/director's cut took everything great about Aliens and added depth, character development and context that only made everything so much better. Snyder just needs to make a fundamentally sound solid entertaining 90 minute movie to start. Then make it bullet proof as a concept. Refine it. Then and only then add in things like fan service, scenes to drive merchandising, more action scenes, UST ( unresolved sexual tension), spectacle, etc, etc. Along with more character development, B storylines, longer beats in existing scenes, etc, etc.

Instead he took a concept that would work best as an immersive video game, and tried to shovel a 1/8th of it into a single film that doesn't even functionally operate as a pilot episode. There's a good story here, but you aren't entitled to asking your audience to watch something twice.

Basic rule of film making - You are infinitely better off having a simple plot but entrenched with interesting complex characters rather than having an overly complex too broad plot with increasingly simplistic non relatable characters.

Can you get away with the latter? Sure, if it's packaged around pure fan service. I have a soft spot in my heart for Sons Of Anarchy, but the last 80 percent of that show's run made close to non sense at all. But it was fun and it had loads of fan service. But it definitely buckled in a bad way when Kurt Sutter tried to turn it into a dollar store version of Shakespeare. If Snyder insists on giving video game level characters in Rebel Moon ( I wouldn't assess he's done this in all his films, I quite love Man Of Steel myself...) , then just make a video game first.

I don't know if an extra 60-80 minutes of footage can fix the clear structural problems in Rebel Moon. Is it possible? Maybe. I wouldn't say this is a plan to fail, but I sure wouldn't assess this project as a plan to succeed.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I feel its more simple. Snyder's Director Cut is like saying: well if you don't like this basic one, how about this other, more-edgy one? He gets a 2nd chance built in. And he's already hedging his bet.

I agree, of course, if a story has flat characters then emotional attachment is difficult for the audience... unless the audience is children, which is how most new Star Wars crap continues on.


Scanned the reviews, which are mostly pretty bad. This one seemed to express it the best: Rebel Moon resembles little more than a grab-bag collection of world-building, mythology, and epic storytelling that we've seen done better...

Another insightful blub: At each turn, it feels like the filmmaker is trying to one-up George Lucas, to deliver a version of the first Star Wars film on steroids. But “Moon” frequently falls short, like a picture of a picture, mimicking images and character types but failing to capture the heart and magic of its predecessor. It’s a film stripped of joy and whimsy, instead pursuing a tone of self-seriousness.

 

[ironwez20]

lol why should people care what the heck he does or this movie if he’s just gonna keep making a 5 hr directors cut? Is he not capable of making a 2 hr film? Lol

 

[Alatar]

But why'd he make two different versions of the same movie? He never truly says -- just the bizarro, heavy-metal version, whatever that really means. I think he just can't make up his mind half the time, which allows him to do multiple versions. I mean, a lot of the time you don't know what will really work until you have the whole thing together, so alternate takes are a must -- and not necessarily the "director's cut". He likely could make 7 versions if he wanted. That's why editor's are so important.

I have a speculation as to why, partly from Snyder's history as a filmmaker and partly based on what I'm all but certain is symbolized in the movie (and it's nothing that's a stretch for me to see, I'm confident that most relatively objective people will agree). I'll share my thoughts about in on Saturday, within spoiler tags. Many viewers can and will of course disagree with what he's doing (if I have it right or mostly right). But (ironically) the fair questions about how indulgent it all is reasonably belong to the topic that he's asking people to think about.

Like I said, if I'm correct this project is the most polarizing thing he's done yet.

 

[Alatar]

lol why should people care what the heck he does or this movie if he’s just gonna keep making a 5 hr directors cut? Is he not capable of making a 2 hr film? Lol

He definitely prefers to make longer films. But so do many of the truly great directors. Many of the greatest films ever made are in the 3-4 hours range. The constraint that audiences can only handle a 2 hour movie is manufactured by the industry to maximize profit.

I don't mean to trivialize the problem. But as we know, cinema is both a business and an artform. In fact cinema is a place where art and capitalist greed collide, and it often isn't pretty when that happens. But that problem is structurally embedded in cinema itself. It's never going away. Well, as long is capitalism is the dominant economic model, that is. And it certainly doesn't look like that's going to ever change.

 

[jaztermareal]

So, based on the talk here I think it safe to assume that mine and others assumptions were correct: a visually busy convoluted mess of a film that is a jack of all trades, master of none sort of deal, that overall is mediocre but dedicated super Snyder fans will read into it like a modern art snob looking at a splodge of poop on a canvas, finding meaning where there is none and claiming it is an incredible multi-layered work of genius. I am at least happy that some folk are really enjoying it at least, in this day and age having a movie that at least some people can enjoy is an achievement (so many films lately were hated pretty universally)

 

[T8OO]

James Cameron has suggested he wants to do a similar thing with runtimes and cuts.

"You can stream it for six hours, or you can go and have a more condensed, roller coaster, immersive version of that experience in a movie theater,"

Funny how he doesn't get the same amount of vitriolic pushback as Snyder.

 

[T8OO]

So, based on the talk here I think it safe to assume that mine and others assumptions were correct: a visually busy convoluted mess of a film that is a jack of all trades, master of none sort of deal, that overall is mediocre but dedicated super Snyder fans will read into it like a modern art snob looking at a splodge of poop on a canvas, finding meaning where there is none and claiming it is an incredible multi-layered work of genius. I am at least happy that some folk are really enjoying it at least, in this day and age having a movie that at least some people can enjoy is an achievement (so many films lately were hated pretty universally)

And I'm sure the haters will be arguing it's the opposite rather than just concentrating on things they like and connect with.

 

[Alatar]

In other news... today is the day! It airs tonight at 7PM PT.

I think it's a wonderful film that stands beautifully on its own. I'm sure I will like the director's cut even better. No reason I can't enjoy the PG-13 cut for what it is, though.

Those predisposed toward dislike of Snyder's work will find endless things to nitpick and whine about.

Fans can don their flame retardant gear to defend it.

After watching it, if one is really honest with oneself, is it actually worse than many of the Star Wars and MCU products? No. At a minimum it's actually much better than most of the mid-tier offerings from those popular franchises. And it's worlds better than the worst of those franchises.

So while there will be things that fans can reasonably criticize negatively about the movie, just do a reality check with any double standard one might have about films in other franchises that are clearly worse. At least don't be a hypocrite about that!

 

[Alatar]

So, based on the talk here I think it safe to assume that mine and others assumptions were correct: a visually busy convoluted mess of a film that is a jack of all trades, master of none sort of deal, that overall is mediocre but dedicated super Snyder fans will read into it like a modern art snob looking at a splodge of poop on a canvas, finding meaning where there is none and claiming it is an incredible multi-layered work of genius. I am at least happy that some folk are really enjoying it at least, in this day and age having a movie that at least some people can enjoy is an achievement (so many films lately were hated pretty universally)

And if you are predisposed to see it this way... evidently you are... your bias confirmation (on the other side of this divide I have mine as well!) will almost undoubtedly kick in.

 

[The Buffinator]

After watching it, if one is really honest with oneself, is it actually worse than many of the Star Wars and MCU products? No. At a minimum it's actually much better than most of the mid-tier offerings from those popular franchises. And it's worlds better than the worst of those franchises.

So while there will be things that fans can reasonably criticize negatively about the movie, just do a reality check with any double standard one might have about films in other franchises that are clearly worse. At least don't be a hypocrite about that!

I'm not sure we should be using the MCU films as comparisons, as those are adaptations of comic books and don't pretend to be anything else. Plus after 25 odd movies and the eventual superhero fatigue some cracks in the veneer were inevitable. Besting The Eternals will hardly be monumental cinematic achievement lol. Nor do I think it will be anything to write home about if he's created something better than any film in either the PT or ST, movies that were either constrained by and/or needlessly beholden to what came before them - the OT. No, Snyder has trumpeted this as his mature take on SW, so he's needlessly set the bar impossibly high for himself - something as fun, entertaining & engaging as ANH & ESB with an extra "edge". Well, no one ever accused him of a lack of ambition. I'm still hoping to be entertained for two hours, but afterwards will he have made me care enough about the characters & world he created to bring me back for more? That's the question. James Cameron didn't do it with Avatar (I still haven't seen the sequel), so if not he'll be in good company.

 

[jaztermareal]

And if you are predisposed to see it this way... evidently you are... your bias confirmation (on the other side of this divide I have mine as well!) will almost undoubtedly kick in.

If I see it I will do the usual of switching off expectations to watch and if I decide it is good or at least ok I will return to state so. I don't expect it to be anything more than meh. not because Zack Snyder but because the trailers and the discussion here provide enough red flags for me to expect the usual meh that I felt with recent Zack Snyder movies. I know he has a super dedicated fan base so happy if they are happy but I think he does need to try to actually make movies that are better so that not just the Snyder fans will enjoy them. I hope to be pleased with the film since so many movies (like those of the Star Wars and MCU franchises) have been terrible, I am starved of good entertainment. I just expect that Rebel Moon will fail to scratch that itch.

 

[jaztermareal]

And I'm sure the haters will be arguing it's the opposite rather than just concentrating on things they like and connect with.

I think the reality is that most who critique his movies don't fall into the hater category. I think his recent movies all had some glaring issues and so far from what little I have seen of Rebel Moon I expect more of that. Hope to be wrong, I am not against the idea of enjoying Snyder movies (Heck, I liked Sucker Punch despite that not being an excellent film) just saying that this looks like a mediocre movie at best (sincerely hope to be wrong) and is unlikely to be a solid foundation for a franchise

 

[JMT1979]

I'm not the biggest Snyder fan, but I thought Rebel Moon was pretty good and entertaining. It's not particularly original and it isn't a masterpiece, but for me it's better than any Disney Star Wars film.

 

[Asta]

It ain't subtle...

 

[Alatar]

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It ain't subtle...

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Haha, but you know…

Actually the symbolism that I see is very much about appreciating what is organic and natural versus what is manufactured.. So yeah! I’ll weigh in more fully tomorrow about that.

 

[Dave_W]

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It ain't subtle...

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Is Snyder trying to tell us he has a tiny dick?

Or maybe he's left it for me to interpret and the tiny dick that I am relating that image to is my own! Snyder you genius!