Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon

[Wor-Gar]

Hell yes it's all in slo-mo/fast/slo-mo/fast.....you even had to ask?

Same situation happens again 15 minutes later in case we somehow missed what a complete and total BADASSSSS she is.

Did they have a little girl that says "gosh, that was amazing"...?

 

[Otomofan]

Not a little girl, but after the Asian Girl Boss Sith lady slays the evil spider lady, the noble proud Native American warrior (who in the previous scene had just tamed Buckbeak from Harry Potter "Avatar" style using his wise Native American ways) is the one that literally quotes "That was amazing!!"

It's like Snyder took a bunch of mushrooms and watched Star Wars, Dune, LOTR, Harry Potter, Avatar, and Seven Samurai and then puked his guts out, and the resulting mess is this movie.

 

[jaztermareal]

This movie is starting to sound quite entertaining, I may have to watch it. might be a new guilty pleasure

 

[Alatar]

Is this movie brilliant or a study in WTF...?

Can anyone say 3 nice things about it... and then 3 critical things about it? Alatar?

I'll lay out what I love about it tomorrow. For now three quick positives:

1) To my eye it's absolutely beautiful looking. The cinematography is gorgeous. And I love Zack's use of slow motion and speed ramping for actions scenes. That doesn't feel overused at all to me. Snyder is great at this. I love it in the first place, so by all means give me plenty of it.

2) The editing is actually tight as a drum! I love the brisk pace. And it's lean and muscular. It's minimalistic and clean. Everything in the film serves a purpose. I was very, very impressed on the second watch just how much this is the case. (As for its minimalism, bear in mind it's Part 1 of Part 2! We're getting more backstory for characters in Part 2.)

3) The movie gave me a great first taste. I'm in. It got me invested and leaves me wanting to know more about each of the main characters, what happens next for Veldt, the Imperium and its scary religion, the big bad, Belisaurius, how the royal family was killed, the rebellion, and basically the entire mythos of the setting. Regarding the latter I'm seeing parallels with the ancient Roman empire and the Celts, and Boudica.

Three negatives... which tbh I'm actually mostly okay with personally, but I get that they upset other people,

1) By making two cuts, one PG-13 that is Zack's effort to demonstrate (? haha, well many disagree evidently) that he can satisfy commercial tastes, and the other an R-rated balls-to-the-wall artistically creative romp, Zack is inevitably inviting viewers to compare the two editing styles. That will then make a statement for sure. I'll have more to say about this tomorrow. I suspect that there is a 'meta' layer of meaning to that, if you will. So viewers like me will be in their glory with it. But it's a massive ask of the average filmgoer who just wants to be passively entertained with familiar and comforting brain candy. To suck at the film/television entertainment teet, basically. Or to just stuff their piehole with pop culture fast food, etc. (And hey, Big Macs are right tasty, I eat 'em too.) Anyway, I think all the drama that this sort of controversial and polarizing filmmaking creates runs the risk of exhausting both casuals and the hardcore fans who support what Zack is doing.

2) It's a rather dangerous game Zack is playing for him to combine so many different diverse influences into one story and setting. These are inspirations that have shaped his artistic taste over his lifetime. It's an homage to all the things that have struck a deep chord in his artistic soul. I've already spoken about this, and that the core inspiration for this franchise, namely Star Wars, itself is in fact highly, highly derivative and was from the get-go. I think there's bound to be an artistic statement that Zack is making about that. (For those that follow such things Zack talks about embedding meta content all the time, so yes, there is.) Obviously I need to see both films, and hopefully the third in the trilogy to confirm. But anyway, regardless of the philosophical statement the fact that it's a mish-mosh of inspirations runs the high risk of looking lazy and unoriginal (ironically to the lazy minded viewer?) And that then invites criticism that is over time just wearying to defend for someone like me that appreciates it.

3) Jimmy is awesome. I want more of him on screen than we got. I get that we'll get that in the director's cut of A Child of Fire, and The Scargiver and its director's cut. What we got to see of him was great. I just want more. Although I can delay gratification for that.

 

[Wor-Gar]

That's your critical comments? The 3rd one isn't even a negative. You love Jimmy, OK.

Certainly you can be more critical than that. You can freely say Star Wars is heavily derivative, yet seem to be OK with Snyder's derivative version of someone else derivation (and are sure he's making a point about be derivative). Exploiting something to death doesn't mean its an 'expose on exploitation' regardless of pointing it out (see Sucker Punch).

 

[jaztermareal]

The art critic: The artist is conveying the deep contradiction that is capitalism through the medium of poop, the streaks of excrement symbolising the decline of the west. It at the same time is a homage to those who previously used the medium to convey similar statements on society, the simplistic minimalism belying a critiqe of the artform itself that is lost on the lesser mind. The juxtaposition of the dark brown poop on the clean white canvas is a defiant punch against white privilege and conformity that makes this such a rich, multi-layered story which elevates this piece to the status of most important works of art ever shown.




Everyone else: its poop on a canvas.


The janitor: I wonder how long it will take that art critic to realise I just took a dump on a spare canvas before he walked in?

 

[jaztermareal]

Seriously though, I will need to give it a watch. Sucker Punch is a guilty pleasure of mine, if this movie is equally as entertaining I will have fun.

 

[Alatar]

That's your critical comments? The 3rd one isn't even a negative. You love Jimmy, OK.

Certainly you can be more critical than that. You can freely say Star Wars is heavily derivative, yet seem to be OK with Snyder's derivative version of someone else derivation (and are sure he's making a point about be derivative). Exploiting something to death doesn't mean its an 'expose on exploitation' regardless of pointing it out (see Sucker Punch).

I mean, hey, I love this movie!

But hmm, okay, fair enough, let me push myself a bit more...

This is again soft but here goes... First let me say about Sofia Boutella that she gets the job done and she is truly captivating (in the best ways!) to watch. Also, she pulls off the physical fight choreography. Especially in the final hand-to-hand combat. Overall she commands the screen when she's on.

But!...

I think she is still probably maturing as an actor. She's showing herself as both tough as nails and also having inner wounds she's carrying around as well. So there's a vulnerability to her. And she's following Zack's direction. But as she develops throughout this saga I think we'll see more subtlety to her and more layers or shades emotionally. Still a very strong performance though! And perfectly serviceable.

I guess another criticism is that the soldiers left to occupy Veldt until Admiral Noble returns are sort of steroetypically evil. That being said, it's a genre convention, and it works. I'm not sure that it needed to try to be anything different. But maybe the characterizations could have shown something more offbeat or unexpected there. (Although one of them doesn't just go with the flow.)

Oh! while Tom Holkenberg's score is again what I would describe as perfectly serviceable, it was also not particularly memorable. Only noticed the score a couple times.

 

[Felinx]

Started watching this. Zack's reaction to my reaction...

This... is... SNYDE-AHHH!

 

[The Buffinator]

BOBF is truly one of the high-water marks for garbage these days, but this is giving it a run for its money.

It's just so tiresome. It's so predictable. This was either written by a 5 year old, a computer, or a chimp. Maybe all three collaborated.

It's just so on-the-nose OBVIOUS it makes me wanna puke.

OK, I just watched this thing and damn did you hit it on the nose - oh so tiresome and predictable. I paint-by-numbers Magnificent Seven without any magnificence. Well, except maybe for the NAIADG (Native American in a Distant Galaxy) that can commune with giant birds. I kid you not. And ZS spends over half the movie gathering up this band of warriors yet no time is devoted to getting to know them or they one another - everything we learn about them is via another character's exposition. And with only a brief exception this movie is so very ugly looking (the exception being the rare instance where there's a sun that actually shines down upon a planet in this universe that Snyder has created). Otherwise everything just looks so dreary, and for an adventure that features plenty of space travel there's not one memorable looking ship to be found. Some of the ship designs seemed borrowed from Dune (the 1984 one) or Starship Troopers, and at other times ideas/designs seem blatantly lifted from Avatar, The Matrix, Infinity War and Saga to name a few. And while I like Sofia Boutella and thought she acquitted herself well, her character seems like she was created by throwing together pieces of Gamora and Alita. I mean, I get that there are no new ideas anymore, but could ZS at least make some attempt to camouflage his plagiarism? JFC.... Not to pile on, but the music was pretty bad as well - there was so much oddly-timed choral chanting during so many scenes it was as if Snyder wanted to be sure we knew that a climactic event was taking place (and yet most of the time there really wasn't).

 

[Alatar]

It's so common I wouldn't call it symbolism but rather a required trope. And an ancient trope at that. The Natural Man vs the Machine/Evil Tech. It's in everything and ever-present -- like the bad guys riding motorcycles vs the hero on a horse all the way to McClane's bare feet (the monkey wrench in the machine). Also, Snyder did this with a hammer to the head with Krypton.

Um, I didn't say it was brand new or revolutionary! It's not me that's holding it to that rather high bar... And I'm fine with that particular part of it being a trope. As I've said before, there's very little if anything that's truly new under the sun. I get where you're coming from about the wish for something truly revolutionary in the genre. But I'm content with what this film is doing!

 

[Alatar]

The nitpicking I'm seeing going on this film is mindboggling, lol. If one has a mind too, one can take any movie and, like an attorney with any witness, absolutely rip it to shreds.

I'm just going keep expressing what I appreciate about it. People that hate (or to be kinder in some cases simply aren't fans of, dislike) what Snyder does pretty clearly won't see this film in any sort of positive light. I'm just holding out a bit of hope that there are some more openminded souls reading this forum that are able to appreciate what the movie is doing. And perhaps they might think about what I'm pointing out when they watch it for themselves. Or afterward when they reflect on the film, etc.

 

[ironwez20]

View attachment 679966

People point out his highest rated movie is written by James Gunn lol

 

[Wor-Gar]

OK, I just watched this thing and damn did you hit it on the nose - oh so tiresome and predictable. I paint-by-numbers Magnificent Seven without any magnificence. Well, except maybe for the NAIADG (Native American in a Distant Galaxy) that can commune with giant birds. I kid you not. And ZS spends over half the movie gathering up this band of warriors yet no time is devoted to getting to know them or they one another - everything we learn about them is via another character's exposition. And with only a brief exception this movie is so very ugly looking (the exception being the rare instance where there's a sun that actually shines down upon a planet in this universe that Snyder has created). Otherwise everything just looks so dreary, and for an adventure that features plenty of space travel there's not one memorable looking ship to be found. Some of the ship designs seemed borrowed from Dune (the 1984 one) or Starship Troopers, and at other times ideas/designs seem blatantly lifted from Avatar, The Matrix, Infinity War and Saga to name a few. And while I like Sofia Boutella and thought she acquitted herself well, her character seems like she was created by throwing together pieces of Gamora and Alita. I mean, I get that there are no new ideas anymore, but could ZS at least make some attempt to camouflage his plagiarism? JFC.... Not to pile on, but the music was pretty bad as well - there was so much oddly-timed choral chanting during so many scenes it was as if Snyder wanted to be sure we knew that a climactic event was taking place (and yet most of the time there really wasn't).

Oh no.... again, this is what I feared.

Alatar... where are your peeps? As you say, lots of haters, perhaps.... but on the flip-side, I think you might be too enamored to see this for what it is (or may be). 'Haters' bad, so 'Lovers' good...? But not if they are blind followers willing to do whatever it takes for their leader.

 

[Wor-Gar]

First let me say about Sofia Boutella

I have a huge crush on Sofia ever since Kingsman. She's awesome... but yes, not the best actress. Strong silent type is best for her. Her voice, when she speaks, is a bit mousy considering her athletic prowess (at least it was in Kingsman). She's the one bright spot keeping me interested in watching this.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Is this movie brilliant or a study in WTF...?

Can anyone say 3 nice things about it...

1) As hobbyists, we'll get toys out of it. Diamond Select is doing the small scale action figures. Jimmy and Nemesis have been announced. My hope is we get a spider, but that would be more of a mega figure. I'd rather McFarlane do something like that for the spider. At this point, my best inkling is that we can hope some of the accessories are salvageable if these figures end up on clearance at some point ( Clearance figures are usually at a price point where you can consider paying the massively reduced price just for a few cool accessories...) Hopefully Part 2 will have more figure/set/vehicle potential that might have cross over appeal to collectors. For example, Boutella in her officer's uniform might have Warhammer 40K crossover potential. I'm not holding out a ton of hope though on the figure side, but let's see how it shakes out.

https://www.entertainmentearth.com/product/DC85338A

2) Since Part 1 and Part 2 are a package deal from a production/budgetary perspective, it's possible we get some cool action sequences and/or spectacle in the 2nd part. I didn't think the action was stellar in the first part.

3) There's going to be a video game, and that's the best chance for a broad scale narrative for this story to be practically unwound for potential fans. I don't think this is a great film, however I will still hold there is enough basic core material to potentially make a good video game. The caveat though is you shouldn't need a video game or an animated series or some graphic novels to do some of the narrative heavy lifting not present in the first film. Will still hold that Snyder should have just made a video game out of this concept, then waited and observed how fans reacted to it and the overall "universe" presented.

Rebel Moon has legitimate and major structural flaws. It could be directed by anyone. It could be about any topic. But the problems are the same. Weak script, poor dialogue, performers ( sans Anthony Hopkins) who cannot elevate the material, poor pacing, no practical character arcs, limited to no character development and mostly violating the basic tenet of "Show Not Tell" in filmmaking.

People can decide for themselves if they love this and if they consider it art. That's up to them. I respect their right to like it or love it or however they want to feel about it. But this was not, and will never be, basic fundamental filmmaking and storytelling. There are actual checkmarks you need to hit to honor practical storytelling and this film just gives up the ghost in that regard.

Rebel Moon could be about Meryl Streep doing scrapbooking and be directed by Terence Malick and it would still be a mess with these core flaws in place. You can't make hash browns out of home fries.

Here's the part, as specifically hobbyists, where I feel we were all let down. On a pure aesthetic and concept level, we could have gotten some damn good figures and vehicles out of this franchise. A film doesn't have to be great to have great figures come from it. No one is banging the drum to give Alien Vs Predator a bunch of Oscars. But damn did we all get some pretty good toys of that movie. If you are going to make a video game movie without intentionally making a video game movie ( just bizarre...), then at least give us power armor, big guns, gunships, cool fighters in dogfights, bad ass capital ships, weapons drones, space marines that are decked out and just stuff that would be fun to find with McFarlane or Hot Toys or something. Whatever criticism are going to be leveled at George Lucas and James Cameron, they always had one eye glancing at potential merchandising in their designs. There is zero part of Rebel Moon Part 1 where I'm going to say "Damn, they need to make a figure out of that, and when they do, I'm getting it" Consider the Return Of The Jedi speeder bike and Scout Trooper. Lots of us saw the film as kids. Some here weren't even born probably. But the first time you saw it, you think "Wow, I want that" There is nothing about Rebel Moon that creates that kind of attraction/draw to it's concepts. At this point, the best we can probably do is salvage a laser rifle to give to one of our Marvel Legends figures. We are hobbyists and collectors here, so a true "negative" in this community is when a concept GIVES US NO GOOD TOYS.

 

[davejames]

I'm morbidly curious to check this out, but probably won't last more than 20 minutes into it. His movies tend to reflect exactly what was in the trailer, and the trailer for this was an indecipherable mess.

 

[Otomofan]

The resolution of the big final conflict was one of the most astoundingly stupid things I've seen in some time, and that's saying a LOT given how profoundly idiotic Hollywood movies have been the last two decades.

Spoiler

All of our heroes are trapped in these really cool robotic restraints, almost like walking Carbonite slabs. It's a cool concept. Oh man....our heroes are totally boned now! All chained up, completely immobile, the enemy army surrounding them with their guns....how are they possibly gonna get out of this???

Well....wait for it....

The helpless eunuch farmer guy just unlocks the Girl Boss. That's it. That's all. And for some reason, instead of gunning her down before she can move, and also gunning down the other helpless captives, the entire enemy army just stands there while she flies through the air in slo-mo, grabs a giant rifle, and they helpfully just stand still while she kills them one by one. Oh, and none of the other captives get a single scratch on them while things explode and spaceships fall from the sky all around them, and they're completely immobile and captured.

Whew! That was lucky for them, huh??

My god that was dumb. As a viewer, you agree to suspend a certain amount of disbelief for movies like this, but that was so blitheringly horse's ass moronic, it pretty much ruined any last shred of goodwill I had for this project.

A big problem overall was the injection of current day ideologies that add nothing to the story but only serve to leave a sour taste over everything. Same problem I had with "Scavenger's Reign." Any innovative or clever ideas and concepts are overshadowed by the DUMBNESS of having things so obvious and formulaic and tied to current sensibilities. Meaning the bad guys are over the top caricatures of Nazis so cartoonish they make Inglorious Basterds look grounded. All the bad guys are selfish, evil, patriarchal white males, and all the good guys are noble and virtuous downtrodden beings of color and diversity. It's just so tired. I'm tired.

Come on Hollywood.....you don't have to keep doing this.

My favorite part that I do wanna give props to is the scene where the main bad guy is having some kind of...relations? with a weird tentacle monster. It was either some kind of drug or sex or both. I like that it was gross and weird and they didn't explain what was going on. This movie needed a hell of a lot more world-building like that.

The robot was cool too. Not in any way new or unique or something we haven't seen a zillion times already, but at least it was cool.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I heard the bad guy is dating an octopus-alien-thing.

Oh boy, that Snyder... wet-willys all around, eh?


I would love to have the power to make a movie and tell my audience "don't worry, everything will be explained later"...

 

[Entropy]

I watched with an open mind but OOF this was dumb and worst of all boring.