Star Wars: The Acolyte

[Dave_W]

Mum's got something going on. The power of two...or something.

 

[TheClient]

I still think this show got a bad rap. I really do.

Overall I found it interesting but pretty mediocre. It had intriguing ideas, and lot of cool moments, and a lot of cringe.

What really killed it was that most of the cringe was early on in chapter 3, when viewership really dropped off. I also think the pacing and structure of the show was wrong to begin with.

I hate hate HATE it when they do entire "flashback" episodes. Making it a "mystery box" flashback was even worse! I much prefer the 50/50 structure of something like LOST. There was a reason that show was a big hit, and each episode structure was a big part of it. It gave you background but also kept the momentum of the "present day" story. If you did an entire flashback chapter, that momentum is lost.

I still think there is a good show in there somewhere. Just finesse the pacing, make fewer episodes, cut out some cringe, and change the flashback structure. I do not believe it is beyond salvaging.

And yes, the hate was overblown. I still do not know where all that vitriol actually came from. We've seen worse Star Wars shows, and none of them got the same amount of rage. And I also still have no idea why anyone thinks this show "ruined" Anakin just because it hinted that he might not be the first "most special Force boy evah". In no way does it take away from his story in the films. It's not a big deal, truly.

 

[Mondragon]

"ruined" Anakin just because it hinted that he might not be the first "most special Force boy evah".

Not sure who you are faux quoting?
Anakin was never the first or last.
Lucas never implied the Jedi were perfect, to the contrary he opened the door to show us why they weren't, SW is literally about their fall, their blind spot, what they were asking of their own to give absolutely selflessly, with nothing for themselves was meant to be near impossible.
So what made them potentailly unique, would also bring about their darkest fall from it.
Anakin came from nothing, "He gives without any thought of reward..." " He knows nothing of greed...". "He can help, .. he was meant to help" These traits were implicitly recognizable in him, yet was ultimately the Jedi's greatest failure.

The one guy who believed in him died, he killed the woman he was trying to protect, the guy who inherited his apprenticeship, his brother and friend, couldn't keep him from the path he chose, and was inevitably killed by him too, and he helped slaughter anyone who could one day challenge him.
Far from from being "most special Force boy evah", he was the embodiment of their failure.

 

[TheClient]

Not sure who you are faux quoting?
Anakin was never the first or last.
Lucas never implied the Jedi were perfect, to the contrary he opened the door to show us why they weren't, SW is literally about their fall, their blind spot, what they were asking of their own to give absolutely selflessly, with nothing for themselves was meant to be near impossible.
So what made them potentailly unique, would also bring about their darkest fall from it.
Anakin came from nothing, "He gives without any thought of reward..." " He knows nothing of greed...". "He can help, .. he was meant to help" These traits were implicitly recognizable in him, yet was ultimately the Jedi's greatest failure.

The one guy who believed in him died, he killed the woman he was trying to protect, the guy who inherited his apprenticeship, his brother and friend, couldn't keep him from the path he chose, and was inevitably killed by him too, and he helped slaughter anyone who could one day challenge him.
Far from from being "most special Force boy evah", he was the embodiment of their failure.

Agreed 100%

I was referring the hubbub of outrage over the witches allegedly using the Force to "create life", much like Anakin's implied origins. There was serious anger over this somehow making Anakin less special, less "the chosen one" (which was a misunderstood prophecy anyway).

I cannot recall any specific individuals, but it was all over Twitter and youtube at the time. It was very stupid.

 

[Otomofan]

The dialogue and the acting are so mind-bogglingly subpar that there's nothing left in this thing that's redeemable.

I'm sorry to throw children under the bus, but I'm sure they'll never read this: those two little girls had no reason to ever be involved in acting in any form. The adults weren't much better, with the Green Lady being the worst. But we all know how she got her part.

I know everyone wants to give props to the guy playing Sol, but man...he sucked too. He was just no good.

The bad guy was cool, but he's only in like 30 minutes of this thing. That's not a TV show.

 

[Mondragon]

Agreed 100%

I was referring the hubbub of outrage over the witches allegedly using the Force to "create life", much like Anakin's implied origins. There was serious anger over this somehow making Anakin less special,

Likely most hubbub was over the perceived forced insertion of identity politics messaging; that straight colonizing institution (= stupid men) were steeling and corrupting power and children from +woman. Implication being the Force was a corrupted and toxic reworking of the true greater power now revealed as : The Thread.

Which was seen by some as pure revisionist garbage.

somehow making Anakin less special, less "the chosen one" (which was a misunderstood prophecy anyway).

I think it was more about re-imagining the Jedi as creepy, predatory, lurking, needy, manipulative, skittish, kill first asks questions later, what happened to "use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack." invading peoples homes, obsessed with kidnaping children, killing their mothers, and covering it up , that some had a problem with.

Yes, the template shown for Jedi adopting a youngling was Anakin who came from nothing, a kid naturally shown to give selflessly, with nothing for themselves, to have a propensity towards it, "He gives without any thought of reward..." " He knows nothing of greed...".
As well as a willing parent intent to offer them a better more meaningful life.- "He can help you, he was meant to help you"

These traits were two fold, implicitly recognizable in him, and the will of the parent, wanting a better life for their kid, recognizing where their uniqueness could be put to a greater purpose. She outright asks "Can you help him?"
It was in these mutual conditions Anakin became an apprentice, and how it was infered others were recruited to be Jedi.

Again Lucas never implied the Jedi were perfect, to the contrary SW is literally about their fall, their blind spot, embodied by Anakin's fall.
Yet in the Disney take the Jedi: Headland - "They're just not the same Jedi." are callously re-imagined as (manipulative, corrupt, kill first ask questions later, mother murdering, child stealing, predatory monsters, who cover up their actions) a complete revisionist betrayal of the Jedi.
Who if they are already fallen, then what is there for any one of them to fall from?
Story wise it's not some insightful examination of the lore, it's a revision, it doesn't build on or add anything to the tragedy, it removes it.

 

[TheClient]

Likely most hubbub was over the perceived forced insertion of identity politics messaging; that straight colonizing institution (= stupid men) were steeling and corrupting power and children from +woman. Implication being the Force was a corrupted and toxic reworking of the true greater power now revealed as : The Thread.

Which was seen by some as pure revisionist garbage.


I think it was more about re-imagining the Jedi as creepy, predatory, lurking, needy, manipulative, skittish, kill first asks questions later, what happened to "use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack." invading peoples homes, obsessed with kidnaping children, killing their mothers, and covering it up , that some had a problem with.

Yes, the template shown for Jedi adopting a youngling was Anakin who came from nothing, a kid naturally shown to give selflessly, with nothing for themselves, to have a propensity towards it, "He gives without any thought of reward..." " He knows nothing of greed...".
As well as a willing parent intent to offer them a better more meaningful life.- "He can help you, he was meant to help you"

These traits were two fold, implicitly recognizable in him, and the will of the parent, wanting a better life for their kid, recognizing where their uniqueness could be put to a greater purpose. She outright asks "Can you help him?"
It was in these mutual conditions Anakin became an apprentice, and how it was infered others were recruited to be Jedi.

Again Lucas never implied the Jedi were perfect, to the contrary SW is literally about their fall, their blind spot, embodied by Anakin's fall.
Yet in the Disney take the Jedi: Headland - "They're just not the same Jedi." are callously re-imagined as (manipulative, corrupt, kill first ask questions later, mother murdering, child stealing, predatory monsters, who cover up their actions) a complete revisionist betrayal of the Jedi.
Who if they are already fallen, then what is there for any one of them to fall from?
Story wise it's not some insightful examination of the lore, it's a revision, it doesn't build on or add anything to the tragedy, it removes it.

See, I gotta disagree. I did not get ANY of that from the show.

In the PT we saw the Jedi's perception and practice with The Force as a cultural hegemony, but if The Force really does bind ALL living things together in the galaxy and beyond, of course there would be some cultures that learn to use it in different ways and have different names and ideas for it. God/Yaweh/Allah/etc. Nothing in the show was trying to say that "The Thread" was more correct or was supposed to supplant the Jedi's ideas of The Force as "THE TRUTH". It was not revisionism. It was just a different viewpoint from a different culture, cringe in execution though it was.

It's a big galaxy. Not everyone is going to be happy when the Jedi show up to visit your Force-sensitive kid. What if the parents say no? What if the kid says no? What if the parent and kid disagree? How do the Jedi handle it? These are interesting questions. In this particular story, the Jedi handled it BADLY. But so did the witches. Both of them needlessly escalated the situation and it all ended in tragedy. The show did not take a side, it shows plenty of blame to go around.

This show was not trying to convince you "all Jedi are bad", even though some characters THINK that, especially after the events depicted, but I never felt the show was endorsing that viewpoint. This was a story about some bad Jedi making tragic mistakes.

The Acolyte took place only 100 years before the PT, and in the vast thousands years timeline of the Jedi, it's a drop in the bucket. This one point in time does not taint the entire fictional history of the Jedi.

So, in short, I never felt the show was saying "ALL JEDI BAD!", but just "what if a Jedi recruitment went horribly wrong?". And I never felt the show was trying to tell us THE DARK TRUTH about the Jedi as an institution. I saw no revisionism, no re-imagining.

This is what I mean when I say the show got a bad rap. It was charged with crimes it did not actually commit.

 

[ZE_501]

This is what I mean when I say the show got a bad rap. It was charged with crimes it did not actually commit.

Interesting. I've never seen it; really don't like the sound of it since I don't like Filoni-style over-complication and super-mystification of the Force and all of the convoluted 'lore' that brings with it. That's just me personally, obviously some people love it.

I'm almost curious to see what the fuss is about but I'm not sure I can sit through it ... I couldn't take BoBF or Obi Wan seriously either and can't even remember how much of those I actually watched, so I don't suppose this would be different...

 

[goatchumby]

The longer a work of fiction is allowed to run, the larger a chance that new creative will attempt to rework the foundation that contributed to its value. It may be a lucrative feeling for that creative to glue themselves to greatness, but you can only Donna Troy something so many times.

 

[SwedishHeat]

I'm almost curious to see what the fuss is about but I'm not sure I can sit through it ... I couldn't take BoBF or Obi Wan seriously either and can't even remember how much of those I actually watched, so I don't suppose this would be different...

I like to give everything a chance, for precisely that reason, to see what the fuss is about (I even watched Madame Web), and The Acolyte was just 'meh.'

It absolutely was not worth all the fuss. It was frustrating because all the stuff people accused it of doing, it did not do. I think TheClient's take is right on. People read into it way too much. So, I guess from that aspect it's worth watching to see where your barometer is.

The main thing it did was tell a story that wasn't from the Jedi (good guy's) perspective. Reminded me of the meme that the Rebel Alliance are terrorists, and Obi-Wan is a religious zealot that radicalized Luke.

 

[ZE_501]

Hoooooo boy. I just watched the opening scene. Now I understand that you can't judge an entire series by the first 7 minutes but I ... don't understand who this is aimed at or how it got approved? I guess severe budget constraints for one thing, but from a creative standpoint ... it feels like a kids' cartoon.

The fight choreo is reminiscent of Xena: Warrior Princess and full-on Wuxia wire fighting, which feels kinda out of place for this IP ... it's also at turns artificially fast and laughably slow.

Although they've clearly spent some money here and there it feels piecemeal and the ... acting ... even Carrie Ann Moss sounds like an amateur, I just don't get it. A couple minutes later the fire effect in space (lol) is cheap as hell ... skipping forward a few scenes ... green chick shows up for 'dramatic' dialogue ... okay I turned it off around the 18-minute mark.

I can't watch this, it's really poorly done. I think Book of Boba Fett might be better.

 

[goatchumby]

I can't watch this, it's really poorly done. I think Book of Boba Fett might be better.

 

[Mandible]

People read into it way too much. So, I guess from that aspect it's worth watching to see where your barometer is.

The main thing it did was tell a story that wasn't from the Jedi (good guy's) perspective. Reminded me of the meme that the Rebel Alliance are terrorists, and Obi-Wan is a religious zealot that radicalized Luke.

Now that, is reading into stuff. Holy crap! Only a modern radicalized viewpoint could come up with stupid **** like that considering the whole thing was based on The Hero's Journey and ticked every mythological human experience cliche since the dawn of time.

That's why modern SW doesn't work, because the idiots who are writing this garbage don't even understand the principles it was built own. They're too concerned with the own narcissistic ****.

 

[ZE_501]

That's why modern SW doesn't work, because the idiots who are writing this garbage don't even understand the principles it was built own. They're too concerned with the own narcissistic ****.

People have been reading too much into SW for decades ... that being said I saw snippets of interviews with Headland and having sampled Acolyte (admittedly very briefly) I'm a little amazed she defended it like some fine work of art. I mean ... even Schumacher apologized to Batman fans.

 

[Otomofan]

Hoooooo boy. I just watched the opening scene. Now I understand that you can't judge an entire series by the first 7 minutes but I ... don't understand who this is aimed at or how it got approved? I guess severe budget constraints for one thing, but from a creative standpoint ... it feels like a kids' cartoon.

I had the exact same reaction as you to the first few minutes. My jaw hit the floor. I was just in utter disbelief as to how something so cartoonishly amateur somehow got made and put on television.

In fact, I just spent the last several minutes looking for my first post after watching, so I could compare our reactions, but several of my posts have been scrubbed from existence (along with many others.)

 

[ZE_501]

I had the exact same reaction as you to the first few minutes. My jaw hit the floor. I was just in utter disbelief as to how something so cartoonishly amateur somehow got made and put on television.

It was like ... something high school kids would have put together. Some of the worst acting I've ever seen. I know I compared it to Xena but that show was winkingly self-aware and sold their lines with good humour. This was shocking.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'm so glad I never watched this...

 

[ZE_501]

I'm so glad I never watched this...

Dude, I tried to watch it and couldn't.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I had that issue with the Obi Kenobi show... it was just so horrible. I think that was the last Disney+ show I ever watched, that or Mando 3.

 

[ZE_501]

I had that issue with the Obi Kenobi show... it was just so horrible. I think that was the last Disney+ show I ever watched, that or Mando 3.

I skimmed some Obi Wan episodes or saw the first couple before giving up, I don't remember. I think that's when I cancelled Disney Plus for a long spell. I must have hate-watched Book of Boba Fett or something. The only new Star Wars content I've appreciated is Andor.

I still can't quite fathom what Headland thought she was doing or what the people that let her do it were thinking. When I can't even get to the story because the production and acting are embarassingly bad, they have a serious problem.

I'm way worse than a 'toxic' fan. I'm a bored one.