1/6 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS 452 - Star Wars: Episode V ESB - Darth Vader

[D.R.37]

“Ignorance” is Bliss until I started lurking in the Freaks threads a few years ago. It was great learning all the differences but it also kinda kills it in some ways cuz it raises ones standard - now that one knows! What even goes deeper is the “Fettology” many have in the Dented Helmet. Joined that a couple months back when I got my first 1:1 Fett bucket and Gah-damnnn down to every little bit of weathering and damage and that’s just the helmet. Amazing and overwhelming... good stuff but a very deep deep rabbit hole of accuracy

 

[davejames]

Yeah that kind of intense nitpicking is a bit much for me as well, and when it comes to Vader I'm not bothered as much by things like the helmet being a smidge too big or the figure not being the exact right height. But something like the mouth being too big or the face too long does tend to jump out at me for some reason, and doesn't really feel like an unreasonable thing to take issue with. At least to me.

That being said, I do find myself slightly more tempted to get this now (thanks mostly to your fantastic pics), to see if it might grow on me more in hand.

 

[Lord Valefor]

if they just took the RO head sculpt, made the lower mouth grill larger, fixed the nose plug and re-did the dome perfectly I bet nobody would have complained or cancelled

 

[rayeknor]

People will always complain, its Vader! No one was complaining over the promo pics.. which is closer then other pics ive seen so far to what this looks like in hand. Pics by members show the materials and gloss better then the over shopped effects on the promo pics tho.

Prefer this over the RO sculpt, RO figure looks close to RO Vader, this looks close to ESB Vader - sculpts slightly "sharper" if that makes sense, he had that whole insectoid/organic thing going on anh/ro, more like a cyborg vibe in esb/rotj, what I personally prefer

 

[Lord Valefor]

I wasn't crazy about the promo pics. The dome was no good and I thought the mask looked weird but couldn't quite place why at the time.

But they made it even worse with the final figure instead of fixing it

 

[davejames]

I suppose like any other 1/6 figure, it's just a matter of posing and futzing and lighting the figure right, to highlight the good parts and disguise whatever problems may exist.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I understand your point perfectly....i too want accuracy...but i'd rather a tad over scaled movie accurate face mask than the vice versa. Both would be wonderful but a perfectly scaled accurate 1/6 mass produced vader will never be made...again something will always be off in one way or another.

My main gripe with this Empire vader is the lazily put together inaccurate face mask...for me a huge eye sore and a step backwards from previous HT versions...
I'm hoping to have mine in a few weeks and looking forward to comparing the mask with the old Kaiyodo

In regards to the HT Empire fett...they did improve the helmet from the proto...but it's still way off and not very accurate.

Okay, I see what you're saying. If something has to be off, you'd rather it be scale than sculpt accuracy. I can understand that; but I don't think it should have to be one or the other. The HT sculptors are such high-level artists that I think they can render both scale and likeness much better than we've seen with Vader so far. And my feeling on that ties in to your comment about Boba Fett.

You're right that HT didn't get the new Fett helmet perfect, but they changed it to far better than it would have been if people hadn't criticized and complained about how it looked in the proto/promo pics. The Fett helmet sculpt inaccuracies still bothered me enough that I just decided to sculpt my own. But I recently also bought a parted-out HT ESB Fett helmet because I've been impressed by the photos I've seen here of it. And it ended up way better than the previous ROTJ helmet (thanks in part to the criticisms/complaints). Still not truly accurate, but certainly not horrible.



Sculpting a really close Fett helmet is certainly not impossible. And neither is sculpting a really close (likeness and size) Vader helmet. The HT artists are the best in the business. They can do it. But I just don't think there's much urgency since every Vader they release sells out anyway. People are happy enough with the HT Vaders. Happier than Fett owners had been, anyway.

I was hoping this new figure would have the first properly-scaled HT Vader helmet. It didn't turn out that way for me. But, at least this new figure gave me chest box and belt upgrades for a custom Vader. I put them on my WIP today, and I'm loving the execution on both pieces. But now I probably need to sculpt a facemask from scratch to replace my modified Titanium one that you can see below.



Again, no matter what I think of the helmet, I love a lot of the other costume pieces and features that this new ESB Vader figure provides. I can only speak for the chest box and belt myself as far as what I've seen in my own hand; but I'm sure the other stuff is great too. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the new HT Vader looks next to your awesome custom Vader, matrix. I think yours is the best 1/6 Vader I've seen from top to bottom. Can't wait to see your eventual comparison pics after you've received this new HT one!

 

[rayeknor]

For 100% accuracy, be it Fett or Vader headsculpts or other things I think they cannot say scan the actual props in a practical way for 3D printing, props are locked away at Lucasfilm in the US.. so its all still mostly good old craftsmanship.

And I think Hot Toys has a thing going - they make very detailed but idealized figures. Not sure if its a company thing or maybe even part of Chinese culture rather then go for gung ho 100% detail.

For example they even got the uneven cheeks right on ESB Vader, some people here even bashed the figure for what they thought was an error for that attention to detail, but then include ep III tusk groves out of the blue even tho its possible to get the reveal head in with the seams running along the tubes like on screen so they're invisible rather then through the rubes ROTS style.. idealized.

The centerpiece of my collection is the full body limited edition Smaug statue by Weta workshop for the Hobbit movies, and it looks exactly like the movie dragon down to the tiniest scale because they used the 3D files from the special effects department to basically pose and refine the statue and busts before making the molds, looking at it up close you can tell its impossible for human hands, even childworkers to sculpt all the tiny individual scales.



Maybe one day we will get Vader & co at that level of detail, but I would not hold my breath. And honestly there is a bit of charm to the craft involved with the figures, Hot Toys paint jobs and sculpts especially, like the original props themselves.. not perfect, but full of personality.

 

[TaliBane]

And I think Hot Toys has a thing going - they make very detailed but idealized figures. Not sure if its a company thing or maybe even part of Chinese culture rather then go for gung ho 100% detail.

Not sure if a company that recreates the thumb print on the stormtrooper upper arm armor and meticulously matches every miniscule dot of weathering detail on ESB Fett's helmet can be dismissed as making "idealized" figures.

They appear to try for 100% accuracy, but obviously - given the extreme complexity - sometimes end up with mixed results.

The reason why they don't 3D scan more of these props/costumes is a mystery but I assume it has something to do with the extreme prices the original props/costumes command (a screen used Vader helmet I would guess would be worth many hundreds of thousands) combined with the transport and handling necessary to get it scanned, simply to produce a toy that LFL/Disney only gets maybe a 10-20% royalty from.

 

[Lord Valefor]

No, but they could buy one of those prop replicas Vader helmet like EFX, scan it and 3D print it in 1:6 as a "base sculpt" for the helmet to get all the small angles right and the dome right

Vader's helmet is a geometrical nightmare, so might as well start from an item that was molded from an original helmet

 

[TaliBane]

No, but they could buy one of those prop replicas Vader helmet like EFX, scan it and 3D print it in 1:6 as a "base sculpt" for the helmet to get all the small angles right and the dome right

Vader's helmet is a geometrical nightmare.

True, and it makes sense, but the legality of that is pretty murky - taking another company's collectible and scanning it to then shrink down to use their work to produce your collectible.

It's funny that "recasting" is a huge no-no on here (the recast of the Sideshow Premium Format Indy head to be shrunken down to produce a 1/6 head comes to mind,) yet here we are discussing a major company recasting another major company's collectible as if it makes sense.

 

[Lord Valefor]

Maybe with human face likeness one company could argue that the other stole it, but not with a Vader helmet made to look how it's supposed to in the first place

Besides, it's just to get the base shape correct.

 

[yy0925]

Good jobs on both figures @ajp4mgs. Looking good!

 

[ZillaFan]

Waiting on Sideshow to get replacements for my broken Vader helmet (tusk broke)

Still really annoyed by it but not much I can do but effin wait.

Figure is amazing. Head sculpt sucks tho. Trust me I "study" Vader. This ain't right.

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[TaliBane]

You don't need to study Vader to see how wrong HT made the reveal aspect.

 

[ZE_501]

[...]Head sculpt sucks tho. Trust me I "study" Vader. This ain't right.

[...]

Looks like Tom Cruise.

 

[ZillaFan]

You don't need to study Vader to see how wrong HT made the reveal aspect.

I'm sure the two people that will actually display it like that are crushed.

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[ZillaFan]

Looks like Tom Cruise.

Lol I see it

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[rayeknor]

Looks more like Keanu Reeves to me.

 

[TaliBane]

I'm sure the two people that will actually display it like that are crushed.

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Then why even include it then, especially if its so inaccurate to what we saw onscreen?

That feature's the reason the dome seating is the way it is, and the reason why you can see the bolts/greeblies from the front view when it's never like that onscreen.