1/6 Hot Toys - MMS264 - X-Men: DOFP: Wolverine Collectible Figure

[Motuxmen]

A lot of the lack of X-Men product falls on Disney/Marvel. They have admitted that they are sticking the srcrews to FOX in whatever way they can. Hot Toys cannot make the other characters, because Disney is interfering. FOX even said as much. They called out Marvel for not allowing them to make toys based on the films. So that's where blame needs to be placed.

Again...bad info. If that was the case there would be NO figures or merch. Which isn't the case. It's a complicated situation because FOX did not secure the actors likeness rights so that now when any companie (hot toys, hasbro, Meade) wants to make product based on the film they have to not only deal with FOX, then Marvel, but also each individual actor. Jennifer Lawrence and Fasbender have both completly said no. Despite being offered larger then normal amounts. You add this to the fact that xmen films and the characters in general are not big sellers and you end up with this situation.

Ive said it before...they just don't have the popularity. Not saying what I feel. I have three wolverine tattoos. I talked my best friend into naming his kid Logan. But the numbers are what they are. Sure DOFP was one of the top grossing movies of the year. American Sniper has done close to the same in tickets sales this year. I'm not talking box office money but total number of tickets used to watch the movie. Every xmen film has been surpassed by such bigotries as "home alone" and "101 Dalmations". The top ticketed xflicks is not even in the top 100 of tickets. Avengers is 11. Iron man 3 15. Spiderman has two in the top 25. Batman forever and batman and robin are both higher. Arguably two of the worst comic movies ever.

No falcon is not a high volume mover. But that required only a license from marvel. The actor was paid for likeness in his contract to star. There's no secondary studio to secure rights. Don't havecto get Actors to sign off. With the xmen films you have the marvel, fox, and each actor. Individually. They also got the likeness rights as a package deal.

 

[pturtle]

I understand that, but do we really know Fassbender and Lawrence said no to Hot Toys figures?

Also Howard said they've already secured the likeness' of some of the actors already and that they were at the preproduction stage, so we should be getting more figures from this line based on that interview. If not, then it's obviously HT fault for not producing more figures.

 

[Gun-Haver]

I understand that, but do we really know Fassbender and Lawrence said no to Hot Toys figures?

Also Howard said they've already secured the likeness' of some of the actors already and that they were at the preproduction stage, so we should be getting more figures from this line based on that interview.

Exactly. Apparently we have bad info but until I see proof he has made up info about Lawrence and Fassbender likeness rights!

 

[Motuxmen]

Yes. We know.

And getting intial likeness rights and actual approval are seperate issues. It's not like you just pay a fee and then make it. You negotiate for the exclusive rights. You make a proto. That has to be approved by all parties. Or redesigned. Then you making the tooling. You make a batch or test runs. Those get sent out for approval from everyone (fox, marvel, actor). The box art gets approved. The marketing has to be approved. If even one party has an issue with even one thing the items don't get made.

 

[sifu74]

Really? What actors would say no to free money for their likeness? They don't even have to get up to go to work, just sign some papers and say yes, easiest money made.

 

[Motuxmen]

2014 SDCC: DST's Zach Oat Talks Marvel Select, Minimates & More Including An Update On Mystique - Figures - MarvelousNews.com

Guess I'm not the only one making it up.

 

[Gun-Haver]

2014 SDCC: DST's Zach Oat Talks Marvel Select, Minimates & More Including An Update On Mystique - Figures - MarvelousNews.com

Guess I'm not the only one making it up.

That's DST totally different story. That's like saying Neca can't get Nicholson Joker rights so that means Hot toys can't... except they did lol.

 

[Motuxmen]

It's just an example that she has declined "this easy money" that no one would do. I know they are seperate companies. There are not public articles about every single negotiation for me to quickly link to. It's one part of a puzzle.

But fine, if it means you only believe it if there's an article stating its from hot toys negotiations, feel free to show me the part where they say they have (hot toys) have a deal with her and Fassbender and that Howard just said no because he wanted to mess with folks.

Look you can believe it or not. But don't then say becuase there's no direct proof for you to read that makes any other argument valid. If you only believe thighs that you have 100% proof of, then don't say its hot toys fault, or marvels, or disneys either. No more proof of that.

 

[pturtle]

Yup, we've known about that, but that situation has nothing to do with Hot Toys.

Getting the actors likeness rights is the hard/expensive part, And if they work that hard to get it they should make them. Also if they can't or if there is a problem they should update us collectors who will be waiting for these figures to get made based on his interviews.

 

[Gun-Haver]

It's cool. Just some interesting speculative debate!

 

[pturtle]

It's just an example that she has declined "this easy money" that no one would do. I know they are seperate companies. There are not public articles about every single negotiation for me to quickly link to. It's one part of a puzzle.

But fine, if it means you only believe it if there's an article stating its from hot toys negotiations, feel free to show me the part where they say they have (hot toys) have a deal with her and Fassbender and that Howard just said no because he wanted to mess with folks.

Look you can believe it or not. But don't then say becuase there's no direct proof for you to read that makes any other argument valid. If you only believe thighs that you have 100% proof of, then don't say its hot toys fault, or marvels, or disneys either. No more proof of that.

I never said they had them, I said they had more than just Hugh Jackman's likeness so we should get more from the line, if we don't, then that's on HT wanting to focus on more Avengers and Star Wars figures, and it'll most likely take 3 years for them to update us and let us know they have no plans for FoX-Men figures.

I'm specifically talking facts, you keep bringing up specifically Lawrence and Fassbender for whatever reason.

 

[Motuxmen]

I never said they had them, I said they had more than just Hugh Jackman's likeness so we should get more from the line, if we don't, then that's on HT wanting to focus on more Avengers and Star Wars figures, and it'll most likely take 3 years for them to update us and let us know they have no plans for FoX-Men figures.

I'm specifically talking facts, you keep bringing up specifically Lawrence and Fassbender for whatever reason.

Your talking facts...ok..so which part? Yes, they said they had some agreements. But mayhe that was for mutant double 14. And maybe the agreement lead to a proto (Xavier) that's was not approved by the actor and scraped. I used those two actors becuase those are the two most requested. I also laid out how this process works, why it is 3 times more complicated and time consuming and why, if the first best hope for sales figure then falls flat they won't be risking others. It's bad business. When it cost more to produce and sells significantly less how is that hot toys fault or some disney conspiracy or any of that?

 

[Agentofchaos]

Based on Budget Stark's video at least it seems like this is a slow mover in Japan - the past two wolverines can be easily bought still...below retail...does anyone think this will be around till Spook?

 

[DiFabio]

Based on Budget Stark's video at least it seems like this is a slow mover in Japan - the past two wolverines can be easily bought still...below retail...does anyone think this will be around till Spook?

Yes.

It won't hurt you to wait and see. This Wolverine is bound to be available at a good deals if you wait it out a bit. At the rate Hot Toys is going with all these releases, it's bound to be buried when it comes to interest. I could definitely see this being available for $180-$200 new. If not from Sideshow, then on the secondary market. Just be patient.

 

[Motuxmen]

Yup, we've known about that, but that situation has nothing to do with Hot Toys.

Getting the actors likeness rights is the hard/expensive part, And if they work that hard to get it they should make them. Also if they can't or if there is a problem they should update us collectors who will be waiting for these figures to get made based on his interviews.

No it's not the only hard part. It's the first in a long line of steps. As I explained. Once that first agreement that just stops other companies from making the products. Then at each step the studio, actor or other IP holders can delay or stop any figure. Right up to mass production. Each step has to be reapproved all over. Only difference is they don't have to keep paying money.
1. Get the rights from marvel
2. Get the rights from fox
3. Get the individual actor rights
4. Make a prototype
5. Get approval from fox, marvel, actor
6. Either change based on input or start over or make molds
7. Make a test run of mass produced figure.
8. Get approved from fox, marvel, actor
9. Make any changes any of those people said
10. Finally sell
That gets repeated for the box art. Publicity images. Announcments. At any stage the studio or actor can scrap the whole thing

 

[pturtle]

Your talking facts...ok..so which part? Yes, they said they had some agreements. But mayhe that was for mutant double 14. And maybe the agreement lead to a proto (Xavier) that's was not approved by the actor and scraped. I used those two actors becuase those are the two most requested. I also laid out how this process works, why it is 3 times more complicated and time consuming and why, if the first best hope for sales figure then falls flat they won't be risking others. It's bad business. When it cost more to produce and sells significantly less how is that hot toys fault or some disney conspiracy or any of that?

Did I mention anything about Disney?

I said, I'm basing everything I know on Howard's interviews until HT confirms otherwise, last I read they have acquired the rights from several actors already, that's a fact, then they said they were at the preproduction stage and they had to discuss who they wanted to make first, that's a fact. Like I said its up to Hot Toys to let us know if things did get scraped otherwise don't do an interview telling us they will be releasing figures from this franchise. It's been stated plenty of times already, like in the Batman returns thread, HT shouldn't announce something if they aren't 100% sure it will be released. So yes, unless they give us a heads up that there were problems and the line is finished, Hot Toys is at fault.

No it's not the only hard part. It's the first in a long line of steps. As I explained. Once that first agreement that just stops other companies from making the products. Then at each step the studio, actor or other IP holders can delay or stop any figure. Right up to mass production. Each step has to be reapproved all over. Only difference is they don't have to keep paying money.
1. Get the rights from marvel
2. Get the rights from fox
3. Get the individual actor rights
4. Make a prototype
5. Get approval from fox, marvel, actor
6. Either change based on input or start over or make molds
7. Make a test run of mass produced figure.
8. Get approved from fox, marvel, actor
9. Make any changes any of those people said
10. Finally sell
That gets repeated for the box art. Publicity images. Announcments. At any stage the studio or actor can scrap the whole thing

According to Howard acquiring the rights from each actor is the hard part, I'm taking everything I know from the interviews, everything else is just speculation.

 

[DiFabio]

I like how we're treating Hot Toys like they're a struggling, naive company that has to grapple with roadblocks like approval, molds, rights, etc. when they've made about 300+ unique releases between their varying film lines alone. There's not a single company out there right now that has as many licenses as they do for collectible action figures, not one.

They're not the little engine that could. Not any more. Their owner/CEO is loaded. He's blown a ton of money on acquiring anything from a massive Star Wars license to making notoriously stubborn actors like Jack Nicholson and Peter Weller give in. Money talks. Maybe some of those things listed would give a smaller 1/6 company trouble, but not Hot Toys. They make what they want to make.

 

[pturtle]

Moto has the inside scoop, only he knows what they can and cannot make.

 

[WhoaItsJBot]

So why didn't the Xavier figure see production? I would assume it wouldn't even make it to prototype stage if James McAvoy didn't approve likeness rights or whatever is needed.

 

[DiFabio]

I don't think approval was one of the problems with Xavier. Back in 2012 that figure was further along in it's production stages than figures like Robocop, ED-209, Agent Coulson and the Chitauri (all of which weren't even painted protos, unlike Charles). Xavier went through two different heads (like Star Lord), was at multiple shows, didn't have a "waiting for licensor approval" plaque card and even got as far as being in the catalog with some nice product shots. They even said he was done but that they were waiting for DOFP to release him.

Shame because that was one good looking figure.