31 dead

[Vader AL]

it's a ridiculous thought to blame an inanimate object. it was an evil person, who could have used other means.

there is a right to bear arms. The United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit stated in 2001 that:

"there are numerous instances of the phrase 'bear arms' being used to describe a civilian's carrying of arms. Early constitutional provisions or declarations of rights in at least some ten different states speak of the right of the 'people' [or 'citizen' or 'citizens'] "to bear arms in defense of themselves [or 'himself'] and the state,' or equivalent words, thus indisputably reflecting that under common usage 'bear arms' was in no sense restricted to bearing arms in military service."

 

[HAPPYBOY]

I don't really care how he got a gun, or what motivated him to use it. VA Tech is only about 30 minutes from me and I have lots of friends who either attend there or work there, that is where my mind is right now. I hope that all of these families that are so tragicly affected by this can find some kind of peace in the coming weeks, I know it will take time. my thoughts and prayers will be full of thoughts and hope for you all. Bless you and keep you strong.

 

[Karma]

my point being that a burglar that is robbing your house in a non-firearm country has the option to run off but If the same person is committing the same act knowing you have a gun, he's gonna equip himself also. Violence attracts violence.

Crime is an act of necessity not choice

But we are completely off-topic & I just want to offer my thoughts & prayers the the families of the victims

 

[Vader AL]

Crime is an act of necessity not choice

it's choice, necessity doesn't move your legs or arms and make you do bad things.

 

[nash]

my point being that a burglar that is robbing your house in a non-firearm country has the option to run off but If the same person is committing the same act knowing you have a gun, he's gonna equip himself also.

I don't see any validity to that statement. sure there may be cases where this will prove true, but having a "weapon" to be used against another individual is not just about protection, it is also about having power over someone else.

 

[MaulFan]

Crime is an act of necessity not choice

That statement is very vague and untrue. Theft, for a large part, could be contributed to to need, but there are a large number who also do it for kicks, it's like a drug for some to pull of a good steal. Crime is a broad word, technically, any breaking of the U.S. law is a crime, so if I get pulled over for speeding just cuz I like to go faster in my car, that's not necessity, it's my choice but it is still a crime.

1HAPPYBOY, I hope you don't take this conversation as belittling the tragedy that has occurred, I think it is actually good if something like this stirs up discussion, it's too easy to want to move on from the pain of something like this and sweep it under the rug so to speak, but without focus and discussion, solutions will never come.

 

[Karma]

Crime is an act of necessity not choice

But we are completely off-topic & I just want to offer my thoughts & prayers the the families of the victims

You are out of your mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

I am not talking about today events when I make that statement, I was referring to people who steal to survive

Do you think people willing choose a life of crime knowing they could be killed ie robbery etc

 

[Karma]

it's choice, necessity doesn't move your legs or arms and make you do bad things.

necessity is you do what's best for yourself at any given time & if you can't get a job through location etc local business going bust etc then what else can you do to feed yourself, as I understand it the state only supplies benefit for so long

 

[Captain Faramir]

I just don't understand how so many can continue to promote gun handling after such abominations. This kind of hatred is only accessorized by the gun that are too easy to obtain and the ease with which weopons are allowed. I pray that those in a position to make changes will realize that these incidents at Trolley Square and now Virginia are only a shadow of imminent reprecusions unless action is taken immediately.

My heart goes out in deepest prayer on behalf of those at Virginia. I pray that their families will be strengthened, their loved ones will be comforted, and their memories will endure as we mourn this travesty. Let us all remember them, and not forget the chaos that ensues when violence is embraced as a means of expression, and hatred is fueled by the outlets of aggresion, wrath, and bloodshed. I pray that all of us will ponder what really matters, and that we will take whatever action is neccessary in order to inspire peace and humanity amongst ourselves. If violence is made to appear glamorous or exciting, can we really expect anything but misery and grief when it strikes at us in retaliation?

Despite this, I know that there is still consolation and peace in the world. There are those who will reach out to those in desperation, and comfort will come to those who are now trapped in the mire of shock and despair. The way out is to show compassion and love for all those who are now traumatized by this affair. I resolve to make a difference in my sphere of responsability. I pray we all might do the same somehow.

 

[nash]

necessity is you do what's best for yourself at any given time & if you can't get a job through location etc local business going bust etc then what else can you do to feed yourself, as I understand it the state only supplies benefit for so long

necessity equals choices my friend.

 

[Karma]

That statement is very vague and untrue. Theft, for a large part, could be contributed to to need, but there are a large number who also do it for kicks, it's like a drug for some to pull of a good steal. Crime is a broad word, technically, any breaking of the U.S. law is a crime, so if I get pulled over for speeding just cuz I like to go faster in my car, that's not necessity, it's my choice but it is still a crime.

1HAPPYBOY, I hope you don't take this conversation as belittling the tragedy that has occurred, I think it is actually good if something like this stirs up discussion, it's too easy to want to move on from the pain of something like this and sweep it under the rug so to speak, but without focus and discussion, solutions will never come.

true, I was overly vague there and should have been more specific

 

[Karma]

necessity equals choices my friend.

so someone gonna choose to not feed there kids just because of the the levels on unemployment is high in that area, how can they afford to move out that area?

 

[Karma]

And ask those who own guns, have you actually been in a situation where you needed or is it just the fear of that situation?

 

[MaulFan]

so someone gonna choose to not feed there kids just because of the the levels on unemployment is high in that area, how can they afford to move out that area?

The sad thing is, even with unemployment, there is much wasted finance in the world. I admit, I think it'd be great to win the lottery, but if you think of the millions being tossed around for a game, and then have families starving and forced to crime to survive, it just shows how skewed from functional this country is. Millions of dollars were spent of trailer homes for Hurricane Katrina victims that sat/may still sit in some air strip going to waste and costing more for renting the space over time, and yet I saw a news story about a guy who went back to NO to go to work once it was cleared out enough, but his home was ruined and he had to leave his family behind at one of the relief locations, and they wouldn't pay for his family to be in two places so he lived out of his truck to go back to work, which is totally messed up. The hollywood celebs and sports stars crying about their paychecks and talking about doing good for their communities and remember when they came from nothing aren't doing nearly enough. This country wastes money and so many other resources, it's not wonder other countries look poorly on us and our own population resorts to crime and rebellion against the system, it ****s you over.

 

[nash]

so someone gonna choose to not feed there kids just because of the the levels on unemployment is high in that area, how can they afford to move out that area?

youre straying from your own point. You said people who dont have the means to feed their kids are going to resort to crimes which is out of necessity.

My point was, regardless of their necessity, they CHOSE to commit that crime, they are not brainwashed. Im not saying everyone has the same opportunities because we don't. BUT, no matter what actions come out of necessity, bottom line is, it is still a CHOICE. Why don't they go on the corner and beg for change instead of stabbing someone in the back alley for their wallet?

 

[Karma]

youre straying from your own point. You said people who dont have the means to feed their kids are going to resort to crimes which is out of necessity.

My point was, regardless of their necessity, they CHOSE to commit that crime, they are not brainwashed. Im not saying everyone has the same opportunities because we don't. BUT, no matter what actions come out of necessity, bottom line is, it is still a CHOICE. Why don't they go on the corner and beg for change instead of stabbing someone in the back alley for their wallet?

I wish I lived in your black & white world, unfortunately real life is just shades of gray

 

[nash]

I wish I lived in your black & white world, unfortunately real life is just shades of gray

lol, my black and white world? imo believing that committing crimes are a matter of choice is very opposite of black and white.

however, your opinion of the same topic, that people who are poor need to commit crimes and have no other choice, that is the true black and white isnt it?

 

[Karma]

Just posing the question that is crime really the bad or is it the perception of high crime levels that install the fear & need for firearms

 

[Anzik]

Has anyone seen a common theme?
How many times has the question been asked "How could someone do this?"
The simple answer is that the people asking that question do not have that capability inside them to commit such an act, therefore it is impossible to understand why someone else could do it. We are not all the same and even under the right circumstances most people could never do anything like this. We all like to think everyone is like ourselves and we like to humanize things but the reality is that we are not equal. Individuals are exactly that: Individual.
Everyone scrambles for understanding when something like this happens but the truth of the matter is, unless you're homicidal, you will never understand because your mind doesn't operate that way.
Do you realize most people have no comprehension of violence? Most people have never been face to face with someone full of rage that wants nothing more than to smash your face in and make you bleed. There is no talking to someone in that state, there is no amount of hugging that will calm them. It's like talking to the bully on the playground and explaining to him about peoples feelings and how its not nice. The bully doesn't listen. He'll wait till no one is around and kick the ass of whoever told on him. People need to accept that some people ARE born evil or at least with the propensity for it.
This has nothing to do with gun control. How many millions of gun owners DO NOT commit mass murder? And honestly, when someone wants to break a law, some words written on a piece of paper somewhere will not stop them. Another thing to think of is that ONE person with a gun did this, now what if there were someone else there with another gun, like a security officer, that could have stopped the murderer before he finished his rampage.
The luxury of things like this, is that we can pick apart whats wrong with an action, but we can't see what would have happened from inaction. We can say this happened because someone had a gun, but we don't know how many things were avoided because someone else had a gun. Ever since the gun was invented, there have been guns and there always will be and I feel better that there are good people with guns because I know there are bad people with guns. If it wasn't a gun it would have been a baseball bat, or a rope around the neck, or a knife, or a hit and run with a car, or a 747 crashed into a building.
Violence does indeed spread violence, but not to everyone. Peace can spread peace but not to everyone. There will always be someone who will reject violence even in the face of it, and there will always be someone who will reject peace no matter how much peace and love they are shown. The difference is that the unconditional pacifist will not eliminate the violent ones, but the one violent one wouldn't think twice about eliminating the pacifists.

 

[Spartan Rex]

so someone gonna choose to not feed there kids just because of the the levels on unemployment is high in that area, how can they afford to move out that area?

A conservative is a just liberal whos been mugged.

My heart and sometimes my tithes goes out to people in need write up until
they put a gun in my face or threaten my loved ones, then all bets are off.

Youve been reading to much Charles Dickens, the prisons arent full of Oliver Twists and Artful Dodgers. They are filled with drug addicts, murderers and rapists. Most burglaries and thefts are to fuel a drug habit.
American society provides plenty of nets (usually at tax payer expense) that nobody should be threatening anyone with bodily harm.

Give up your Pollyanish ways and wake up to fact that monsters walk the earth, they usually walk on two legs and the police arent always going to be around. Take todays events for a sad example.

"An armed society is a polite society, as Robert Heinlein noted."