Aliens,Predator and Terminator Q&A (Anything!)

[Sexual Predator]

Why would Cameron make John Connor such a pivotal character in the first movie if he had no meaning whatsoever and it was just about the evolution of killing machines called Terminators?

Hydro-bots?

 

[SilentSurfer]

Thi is off course total bs as you are just making this up. The first movie was about John Connor just as much as the other 3 were, and that was always the intention. Why would Cameron make John Connor such a pivotal character in the first movie if he had no meaning whatsoever and it was just about the evolution of killing machines called Terminators?

What I was getting at is the Predator principle. All the Predator movies have starred different people. That series, unlike Terminator, did not become about Arnold's character. I am all for a good story about the legendary man, John Connor (which we still have not gotten in any movie including TS), but I personally didn't want to know him before he was that legend that Kyle spoke of. I couldn't give a rats ass about the John from T2 or T3, and the TS John didn't really do much either as Marcus was the one to save the day and his life. All these movies about John Connor have made him far less than the man whose life Kyle gave his own to ensure would happen.

Get it now?

I would rather the Terminator series be about Skynet and how its mission to destroy mankind is stopped. The title character should be the real star. That's why Arnold became a huge star, and Linda Hamilton did beauty and the beast until T2, and then nothing after that. The villain drives a movie. A hero is nothing without the villain.

 

[Sabres21768]

What I was getting at is the Predator principle. All the Predator movies have starred different people. That series, unlike Terminator, did not become about Arnold's character. I am all for a good story about the legendary man, John Connor (which we still have not gotten in any movie including TS), but I personally didn't want to know him before he was that legend that Kyle spoke of. I couldn't give a rats ass about the John from T2 or T3, and the TS John didn't really do much either as Marcus was the one to save the day and his life. All these movies about John Connor have made him far less than the man whose life Kyle gave his own to ensure would happen.

Get it now?

I would rather the Terminator series be about Skynet and how its mission to destroy mankind is stopped. The title character should be the real star. That's why Arnold became a huge star, and Linda Hamilton did beauty and the beast until T2, and then nothing after that. The villain drives a movie. A hero is nothing without the villain.

I have to disagree with you dude. None of these movies have been about the villian, nor should they be, even though that's what they're named after.

And a villian is nothing without a fleshed out hero.

We can accept that the Terminator does what it does because he's a machine, we can accept that a Pred does what it does, because it's a Pred. We can accept that Aliens do what they do because they're alien. But the hero, being human, must have motivation that WE, as the audience agree with and "feel". When we go to a movie, we're not there as the villians, we're there as the heros. Feeling (if it's a good script) what they feel and going through the emotions they go through. These movies would fail MISERABLY if they soley focused on the non-hero aspect.

 

[SpawnFan]

Sabres knows!

 

[Faken]

I have to disagree with you dude. None of these movies have been about the villian, nor should they be, even though that's what they're named after.

And a villian is nothing without a fleshed out hero.

We can accept that the Terminator does what it does because he's a machine, we can accept that a Pred does what it does, because it's a Pred. We can accept that Aliens do what they do because they're alien. But the hero, being human, must have motivation that WE, as the audience agree with and "feel". When we go to a movie, we're not there as the villians, we're there as the heros. Feeling (if it's a good script) what they feel and going through the emotions they go through. These movies would fail MISERABLY if they soley focused on the non-hero aspect.

Well in AvP, they specifically formulated Scar to be considered the hero of the film.

 

[Sabres21768]

Well in AvP, they specifically formulated Scar to be considered the hero of the film.

Yeah, and we see how that worked out for 'em.

 

[A-1188]

Fatty Scar bom bom!

 

[Faken]

Yeah, and we see how that worked out for 'em.

Oh sure, you HAD to go there

 

[A-1188]

Oh, I got a question. In Predator 2, we see the dart / spear (the one found by Danny in the penthouse before he's killed), but never get to see the gun that shoots it. Am I missing something?

 

[SilentSurfer]

Nope, you didn't miss it. I am a huge fan of Pred 2 and I still don't know where it actually came from.

I have to disagree with you dude. None of these movies have been about the villian, nor should they be, even though that's what they're named after.

And a villian is nothing without a fleshed out hero.

These movies would fail MISERABLY if they soley focused on the non-hero aspect.

My argument was pretty one-sided, I'll admit, but I still stand by the fact that The Terminator was a three starring roles picture, and the title character is what made that movie great, not Sarah, and not Reese. It would not have been as great without them, but the Terminator was the anti-hero that people have been wanting to see more of. That's why it was such a treat for all of us to see him in TS again as the ultimate badass the 800 is supposed to be.

The funniest thing about this argument is that T2 is actually closer to Cameron's original vision. The Terminator was supposed to be an any man who could come at you out of crowd. Lance Henriksen was supposed to be the Terminator, and Arnold was asked to be Reese. It was Arnold who decided he would be the Terminator. But in T2, the T-1000 is closer to Cameron's original dream, and Arnold did end up as the hero. Ironic.

 

[a-dev]

I can't see how T1 would have worked with a hero (albeit a human one) who looks vastly more physically imposing than the villain. They definitely made the right choice in the end.

 

[Devil_666]

I can't see how T1 would have worked with a hero (albeit a human one) who looks vastly more physically imposing than the villain. They definitely made the right choice in the end.

T-2!? I know Arnold is still a Terminator, but Robert Patrick was considerably smaller and still menacing. Same thing would've worked in the first film imo. HB II: HellBoy is bigger than the Prince.. it can work if you set up the villain properly.

 

[SilentSurfer]

Can you imagine Arnold Reese boning down on Linda Connor in T1. He would have terminator her accidentally.

 

[a-dev]

T-2!? I know Arnold is still a Terminator, but Robert Patrick was considerably smaller and still menacing. Same thing would've worked in the first film imo. HB II: HellBoy is bigger than the Prince.. it can work if you set up the villain properly.

No no, his liquid metal abilities really helped sell that. He could regenerate in ways that Arnie's Terminator couldn't. But big muscled Arnie against plain robot Lance Henrikson?

 

[Devil_666]

No no, his liquid metal abilities really helped sell that. He could regenerate in ways that Arnie's Terminator couldn't. But big muscled Arnie against plain robot Lance Henrikson?

But you can see in the films, human muscles don't mean much vs. a machine. Imagine Arnold Reese (human) being bigger and more physically imposing than Terminator Lance Henriksen only to be manhandled and tossed around like a rag doll complete with trademark Arnie screams "EEEYAAAAAGHHH". That would've made the Terminator even MORE threatening imo.

Can you imagine Arnold Reese boning down on Linda Connor in T1.

Like in Total Recall: "C'mon Bay-bee, you know yur duh gurl of muh Treams".

 

[SilentSurfer]

I wonder what Lance's endo would have looked like. I suppose a bit like Marcus's, which we never really saw either.

 

[a-dev]

But you can see in the films, human muscles don't mean much vs. a machine. Imagine Arnold Reese (human) being bigger and more physically imposing than Terminator Lance Henriksen only to be manhandled and tossed around like a rag doll complete with trademark Arnie screams "EEEYAAAAAGHHH". That would've made the Terminator even MORE threatening imo..

Firstly I hope you meant that as a joke because I did laugh - great written Arnie scream. If you were serious though, nah I'm quite happy with the amount of Arnie films we do have with all his screaming. Terminator didn't need to be another one.

What works better for me is what we got - relatively little michael Biehn - and mere mortal human - versus guy with huge muscles who, if that weren't enough, is also a hyper-alloy combat chassis underneath!

 

[SilentSurfer]

I know you spelled it right, but chassis does not look like it sounds- "chassy". Strange way to spell it.

 

[a-dev]

actually I wasn't sure if I'd spelt it right...

 

[stoods77]

Hi,
i'm sure this has been said before, but in T2 when they destory all the research regarding skynet, didn't they consider if skynet is destroyed then John would fail to exist. Sarah is so concerned about the destruction of skynet that she must not have relised she would destroy her beloved son who is "too important". Wierd.