Avengers: Endgame

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Also I know we were talking about how AEG's "AA" moment one-upped similar scenes in LOTR but really we now have three top shelf franchises that really compliment each other well.

SW OT: Pinnacle of space adventure films
LOTR: Pinnacle of fantasy adventure films
MCU (up toe AEG): Pinnacle of superhero films

Obviously with regard to importance nothing tops the OT and for pure filmmaking FOTR/TTT/ROTK don't have a single weak entry but otherwise all three series' offer things the other two don't have. Peter Jackson even acknowledged the difficulty of trying to construct a satisfying final battle in ROTK with no Emperor/Thanos character in tangible form, just a big eye on top of a tower, lol. ROTJ was epic and awesome but still had the main heroes split across three separate battlefields. AEG finally gave us a finale with all surviving good guys against all the bad guys on a single battlefield personally led by the main villain.

The GoT creators and JJ Abrams can't be happy about having to close their sagas after this, lol.

JJ used to be all "sweet my movie follows TLJ!" and now he's just "f---!" lol

 

[The Buffinator]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Also I know we were talking about how AEG's "AA" moment one-upped similar scenes in LOTR but really we now have three top shelf franchises that really compliment each other well.

SW OT: Pinnacle of space adventure films
LOTR: Pinnacle of fantasy adventure films
MCU (up toe AEG): Pinnacle of superhero films

Obviously with regard to importance nothing tops the OT and for pure filmmaking FOTR/TTT/ROTK don't have a single weak entry but otherwise all three series' offer things the other two don't have. Peter Jackson even acknowledged the difficulty of trying to construct a satisfying final battle in ROTK with no Emperor/Thanos character in tangible form, just a big eye on top of a tower, lol. ROTJ was epic and awesome but still had the main heroes split across three separate battlefields. AEG finally gave us a finale with all surviving good guys against all the bad guys on a single battlefield personally led by the main villain.

The GoT creators and JJ Abrams have really got to be saying "f---!" about having to close their sagas after this, lol.

Well, at least they're done filming their respective finales, right?

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Also I know we were talking about how AEG's "AA" moment one-upped similar scenes in LOTR but really we now have three top shelf franchises that really compliment each other well.

SW OT: Pinnacle of space adventure films
LOTR: Pinnacle of fantasy adventure films
MCU (up toe AEG): Pinnacle of superhero films

Obviously with regard to importance nothing tops the OT and for pure filmmaking FOTR/TTT/ROTK don't have a single weak entry but otherwise all three series' offer things the other two don't have. Peter Jackson even acknowledged the difficulty of trying to construct a satisfying final battle in ROTK with no Emperor/Thanos character in tangible form, just a big eye on top of a tower, lol. ROTJ was epic and awesome but still had the main heroes split across three separate battlefields. AEG finally gave us a finale with all surviving good guys against all the bad guys on a single battlefield personally led by the main villain.

The GoT creators and JJ Abrams can't be happy about having to close their sagas after this, lol.

JJ used to be all "sweet my movie follows TLJ!" and now he's just "f---!" lol

Joker is going to be great counter programming lol

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Well, at least they're done filming their respective finales, right?

I don't know, I suspect that KK might have global military satellites trying to locate Tony Gilroy's whereabouts as we speak, lol.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

The GoT creators and JJ Abrams have really got to be saying "f---!" about having to close their sagas after this, lol.

I'm sure that Rose, Finn, Poe, and Rey vs Kylo, half of Snoke, and the emperor will live up to the hype and conclude the saga that started way back in....2015.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Huh? When Thanos did the snap, his whole arm was fried too. I didn't know about Hulk's Wolverine-like healing abilities. Probably because he's always portrayed (on film anyway) as having skin that's almost impenetrable.

That was after the 2nd snap when he destroyed the stones.

Okay I get it, it's Christmas morning and I got the new bike, computer, pony, robot servant, etc., and I'm trying to convince you that your coal can at least keep you warm at night, lol. So I realize I'm not in the best position to help you see the bright side. I get that you feel that Hulk's background status is a tragedy after the buildup of IW but I don't think that he was in any way "lame." He was just simply there for the most part. Whereas Cap in the original Avengers was not only less than stellar in the action scenes but he was also the butt of a few jokes and of course famously looked like a dork with the dumb cowl to boot.

So that's where I'm hoping that the sting might be lessened for you. Hulk wasn't lame or embarrassing in AEG, just not very prominent.

Spot on about Christmas..

We just see cap differently in Avengers.. I never though of him as the butt of the Joke.. Not in anyway that hurt his rep. I thought he had great moments in the film.. Only the Helicarrier scene sort of left him on the back burner.

Caps Cowl is the only thing that ruins this from being another perfect Cap outing.

Also... Lets not forget.. Hulk has been regulated to looking just like a Green Mark Ruffalo now.. That is almost as bad as the cowl.

Guess I am just a bigger Cap fan then you

Hey I think they made slight improvements to caps cowl in this film.. Thought it looked a little better. Still goofy but better.




You know... Other then IM jabs.. How was Cap the butt of any jokes in the first Avengers.. I mean IM was just Jelly of Cap because of his Dad's affection for him...

I really cant think of anything.

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Joker is going to be great counter programming lol

Yeah Joker could be extra golden if TROS ends up faltering by comparison to AEG.

Oh and btw I literally loled at your comment about the Zack Snyder JL cut being laughable now.

Exclusive footage of Zack Snyder reacting to WB telling him that he's now free to release his own personal cut of JL:

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

I'm sure that Rose, Finn, Poe, and Rey vs Kylo, half of Snoke, and the emperor will live up to the hype and conclude the saga that started way back in....2015.

Holy crap, Clown is bringing the lolz to this thread.

 

[The Buffinator]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

That was after the 2nd snap when he destroyed the stones.

It was already pretty messed up after the 1st snap, wasn't it? The gauntlet was really F'd up too. Which is another thing: Thanos's gauntlet probably could absorb more of the damage vs. the one Tony made, so you really can't judge their relative strength based on who was hurt worse. It's not a controlled experiment if you change one of the variables.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Spoiler

Yeah, the whole thing with the Falcon suddenly being Captain America’s best bud instead of Bucky (who standing right there, a few feet away), didn’t sit right with me. Felt forced.

Not saying that the mantle or shield needed to be passed down to Barnes, but he didn’t even talk or interact with old Steve.

Going back in time and banging Peggy is also pretty selfish in retrospect. Doesn’t seem like a move Captain America would make. He did nothing for decades and just sad idly by as horrible things happened in the world. How does he know that he wouldn’t be needed in the present time, after Thanos? How about the billions of people who returned from getting dusted that woke up in a future when no time had passed (like Peter Parker or Ant-Man experiences). Many people would have to deal with this trauma. Steve experienced something similar after being frozen for 70 years. To suddenly just leave doesn’t seem heroic. Peggy lived her life and died. What he does negates what went down in First Avenger, Winter Soldier and Civil War.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

It was already pretty messed up after the 1st snap, wasn't it? The gauntlet was really F'd up too. Which is another thing: Thanos's gauntlet probably could absorb more of the damage vs. the one Tony made, so you really can't judge their relative strength based on who was hurt worse. It's not a controlled experiment if you change one of the variables.

There is that with regards to the two Gauntlets...

Thanos arm and face had no damage at the end of IW.. Gauntlet did..


I seriously cant remember what we are discussing here.

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

That was after the 2nd snap when he destroyed the stones.



Spot on about Christmas..

We just see cap differently in Avengers.. I never though of him as the butt of the Joke.. Not in anyway that hurt his rep. I thought he had great moments in the film.. Only the Helicarrier scene sort of left him on the back burner.

Caps Cowl is the only thing that ruins this from being another perfect Cap outing.

Also... Lets not forget.. Hulk has been regulated to looking just like a Green Mark Ruffalo now.. That is almost as bad as the cowl.

Guess I am just a bigger Cap fan then you

Hey I think they made slight improvements to caps cowl in this film.. Thought it looked a little better. Still goofy but better.




You know... Other then IM jabs.. How was Cap the butt of any jokes in the first Avengers.. I mean IM was just Jelly of Cap because of his Dad's affection for him...

I really cant think of anything.

Okay maybe not the butt of jokes other than Stark's comments but still played as a bit of a silly character with the I understood that reference stuff.

But to address an elephant in the room about AEG. Maybe someone who paid better attention to the time travel rules can enlighten me but by Steve going back in time and marrying Peggy did he eradicate and wipe from existence her original kids like Kyle Reese did to original timeline John Connor?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Spoiler

Yeah, the whole thing with the Falcon suddenly being Captain America’s best bud instead of Bucky (who right there, a few feet away), didn’t sit right with me. Felt forced.

Not saying that the mantle or shield needed to be passed down to Barnes, but he didn’t even talk or interact with old Steve.

Going back in time and banging Peggy is also pretty selfish in retrospect. Doesn’t seem like a move Captain America would make. He did nothing for decades and just sad idly by as horrible things happened in the world. How does he know that he wouldn’t be needed in the present time, after Thanos? How about the billions of people who returned from getting dusted that woke up in a future when no time had passed (like Peter Parker or Ant-Man experiences). Many people would have to deal with this trauma. Steve experienced something similar after being frozen for 70 years. To suddenly just leave doesn’t seem heroic. Peggy lived her life and died. What he does negates what went down in First Avenger, Winter Soldier and Civil War.

Spoiler

Peggy married someone else and had kids right, or a I thinking of the old lady from Titanic?

Either way, I think Cap is in an alternate timeline living with Peggy while the timeline where she died in TWS still happened. It's weird.

 

[The Buffinator]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Yeah, the whole thing with the Falcon suddenly being Captain America’s best bud instead of Bucky (who right there, a few feet away), didn’t sit right with me. Felt forced.

Not saying that the mantle or shield needed to be passed down to Barnes, but he didn’t even talk or interact with old Steve.

Going back in time and banging Peggy is also pretty selfish in retrospect. Doesn’t seem like a move Captain America would make. He did nothing for decades and just sad idly by as horrible things happened in the world. How does he know that he wouldn’t be needed in the present time, after Thanos? How about the billions of people who returned from getting dusted that woke up in a future when no time had passed (like Peter Parker or Ant-Man experiences). Many people would have to deal with this trauma. Steve experienced something similar after being frozen for 70 years. To suddenly just leave doesn’t seem heroic. Peggy lived her life and died. What he does negates what went down in First Avenger, Winter Soldier and Civil War.

He suddenly left, but it still was only for 5 seconds. And one could argue that the old man who's there now is in a better position to help people deal with trauma, having the experience & wisdom of having lived a fuller life.

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Yeah, the whole thing with the Falcon suddenly being Captain America’s best bud instead of Bucky (who right there, a few feet away), didn’t sit right with me. Felt forced.

Not saying that the mantle or shield needed to be passed down to Barnes, but he didn’t even talk or interact with old Steve.

Yeah I was definitely expecting a last moment between Steve and Bucky. Maybe they thought we'd already seen enough of them bonding and felt it was unnecessary after Civil War or maybe they did film it and it's on the cutting room floor.

One other theory that occurred to me with regard to Hulk is that he might be this movie's "Beorn" from the Hobbit where DoS established him as this big bad ass bear dude and we knew from the book that he kicks ass in the final battle but then doesn't do anything on screen until the EE hits. So maybe there was something filmed with the Hulk and they felt that it had to be cut for time due to them not assuming it'd be as crowd pleasing as all the other hero moments. I guess we'll have to wait until the blu-ray to see one way or another on that one.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Cap not only returned the stones to their respective places in time, but also Thor's hammer. The fact that old Cap had a brand new shield means that in the newly created timeline where he grows old with Peggy, he was still Cap America at some point....but how does he end up in the same present as the other Avengers that just beat Thanos? It makes no sense.

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Peggy married someone else and had kids right, or a I thinking of the old lady from Titanic?

Either way, I think Cap is in an alternate timeline living with Peggy while the timeline where she died in TWS still happened. It's weird.

She definitely got married, TWS has her saying so in a Smithsonian film about people Cap knew. It must be an alternate reality though. I mean if they didn't have alternate realities then Nebula would have had to have erased herself Looper-style by killing her past self.

 

[The Buffinator]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

There is that with regards to the two Gauntlets...

Thanos arm and face had no damage at the end of IW.. Gauntlet did..


I seriously cant remember what we are discussing here.

I thought it was the Russo's neutering of Hulk, and how he should have been strong enough to not be severely hurt by the snap. Too many discussions at once - I'm losing track too.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Well he was buff and not skinny Rogers so he was definately serum Rogers.

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Cap not only returned the stones to their respective places in time, but also Thor's hammer. The fact that old Cap had a brand new shield means that in the newly created timeline where he grows old with Peggy, he was still Cap America at some point....but how does he end up in the same present as the other Avengers that just beat Thanos? It makes no sense.

Yeah because to come back to the main timeline that the audience follows he would have needed to zap back with his little time travel GPS bracelet right? Otherwise he would have lived out his life in the parallel universe. Looks like they might have done the same "cheat" as BTTF II when they had old Biff return to the original future timeline despite having him go back and change everything when he gave his younger self the Almanac.

Oh well I'll just assume that the Howard Stark/Hank Pym of the alternate Peggy reality used their tech to send him to the original timeline after that Peggy died so that he could be back with his original buddies. See I can make it work, lol.