Avengers: Endgame

[loki2371]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Like I said I don't know the rules and can see a case being made both for and against Tony or any other heroes in AEG lifting the hammer. I believe Cap picked it up in one of the comics but that was after my time.

I think the film made it pretty clear that it was just Cap and Thor (since neither hammer nor axe "mistakenly" flew in to anyone else's hands during the battle) but it's fun to ponder nevertheless. Well fun if you don't have a chip on your shoulder about the movie I guess, lol.

I liked the movie. And Cap definitely deserved to be worthy. It was a great moment. But Cap and Cap alone. No one else even comes close to that honor.

It just annoys me when writers make **** up to suit their needs. Especially in an interview with giving their interpretation about a movie they had nothing to do with. Then people eat it up as if it's gospel from the bible. Now people will watch AOU laughing thinking Cap is pretending he can't lift it... Ruins the scene and diminishes Thor. And then people start coming up with their own theories...

Wasn't that everyone's retort towards those that didn't like TLJ? The Man Babies were mad because it didn't fit with the fan fiction they created in their head?? But it works when it suits what you want to believe...

 

[a-dev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

What even is a pure heart? Having no lustful or selfish desires? Total altruism? Hemsworth's Thor probably wouldn't qualify either.

 

[loki2371]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Got me. I was just stating how Thor finally became worthy in the comics.

Ask Stan Lee...

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

It just annoys me when writers make **** up to suit their needs.

Um that's literally their one job, lol.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Well you're certainly free to ignore AEG if AOU (or your assumption of what Joss Whedon was trying to say in AOU) is sacred. Nothing wrong with that.

AOU sucks and the fact that Vision was worthy to lift the hammer, and the first to do it in a throw away scene, kind of took away from Cap's moment, which I like to think he earned by that point in EG, as apposed to him not hurting Thor's feelings.

 

[loki2371]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Um that's literally their one job, lol.

True..

I should've said after the fact. They made this **** up in an interview when put on the spot. And The Russo Bros weren't even the writers. That would be Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely.

Let's go back to Hulk bashing...

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

AOU sucks and the fact that Vision was worthy to lift the hammer, and the first to do it in a throw away scene, kind of took away from Cap's moment, which I like to think he earned by that point in EG, as apposed to him not hurting Thor's feelings.

Well the nice thing about the Russos not spelling out in the actual movie how long Cap had been worthy allows you to make up your own mind on the matter. Technically it was Joe Russo who said he saw Steve as pretending to not be able to pick up the hammer and for all we know his brother Anthony and/or the writers disagree.

Quentin Tarantino used to say that all films are "co-directed" by the audience and that if it isn't spelled out on screen then the audience gets to decide whatever they want. When he was on Charlie Rose and a caller asked him what was in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction he told the caller "whatever YOU think was in the case is the correct answer."

I've always had that same philosophy which is why I don't sweat it if I disagree with a director about their own movie (like the whole Deckard/Replicant thing which Ridley Scott is 100% wrong about, lol.)

So if you disagree with Joe then just ignore his take, it shouldn't break that scene for you.

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

True..

I should've said after the fact. They made this **** up in an interview when put on the spot. And The Russo Bros weren't even the writers. That would be Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely.

Let's go back to Hulk bashing...

I think the Russos have proven that they think these things through pretty extensively and don't just shoot from the hip in interviews but your mileage may vary.

 

[loki2371]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Well the nice thing about the Russos not spelling out in the actual movie how long Cap had been worthy allows you to make up your own mind on the matter. Technically it was Joe Russo who said he saw Steve as pretending to not be able to pick up the hammer and for all we know his brother Anthony and/or the writers disagree.

Quentin Tarantino used to say that all films are "co-directed" by the audience and that if it isn't spelled out on screen then the audience gets to decide whatever they want. When he was on Charlie Rose and a caller asked him what was in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction he told the caller "whatever YOU think was in the case is the correct answer."

So if you disagree with Joe then just ignore his take, it shouldn't break that scene for you.

Like I said earlier though, the problem with a statement like that is that people who can't think for themselves that lack any sort of imagination take it in and then run around shouting it to the sky and telling everyone they know. And then it's all over the place and becomes fact. And then changes how a great scene in a movie is viewed.

"When the Myth becomes History".

 

[loki2371]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

I think the Russos have proven that they think these things through pretty extensively and don't just shoot from the hip in interviews but your mileage may vary.

They're the most powerful directors in Hollywood right now.. Don't think their ego's haven't become a bit inflated.

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Like I said earlier though, the problem with a statement like that is that people who can't think for themselves that lack any sort of imagination take it in and then run around shouting it to the sky and telling everyone they know. And then it's all over the place and becomes fact. And then changes how a great scene in a movie is viewed.

"When the Myth becomes History".

Yeah, it's why the Wachowskis refused to do commentaries for the Matrix films. They were concerned that if they started spelling out the symbolism and inspirations for the story that people would take it as gospel and stop enjoying the magic of their own interpretations.

IIRC that's why Nolan doesn't do them either.

As for me it always kind of annoyed me that Steve couldn't lift it in AOU so whether I allow for Joe's take or not I'm good, lol.

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

They're the most powerful directors in Hollywood right now.. Don't think their ego's haven't become a bit inflated.

I'm sure they have. But they're also super nerds and perfectionists and so I still think that they thoroughly think these things through. Cameron is the same way (super-nerd perfectionist.) It'll be interesting to see if they can keep the quality post-MCU.

 

[loki2371]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

A quick look through the app Flipboard I use on my android phone, there are already many articles and headlines quoting what he said. That Cap could always lift Mjolnir.

It is already become a fact...

Welcome to the internet.

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)



Going back to your request to continue the Hulk bashing, I just watched the insanely epic "To The End" AEG trailer again and its interesting noticing that even before the movie they were making it all about the Big Three and not you know who:

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

"The Big Three"..... clearly a shot at DC's Trinity. They want their own trinity. Plus, Marvel already has the Fantastic 4, which has a big strong monster guy, so Hulk s screwed. Besides, Hulk is a loner anyways. I like the idea of a a Marvel trinity, even if Hulk was an A- list hero long before the new trinity. So are Hawkeye and Widow the dynamic duo?

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

JARVIS is AI given power by a universe creating infinity stone it is not subjected to Odin’s orders of course it can pick up the hammer just like he can fly for no reason he copies others including copying Thor’s cape and lifting abilities without the need to being worthy. Vision at the end of the day is a walking talking 3D printer lol

Regarding Cap AOU while you may not like what the Russo’s said at the end of the day either you can lift the hammer or you can’t so I guess he could by that point which gives purpose to Thor’s “I knew it!”.

One could argue that he was conflicted inside hence only moving the hammer slightly but I think that’s not the case.

I guess his plane nose dive sacrifice made him worthy after all he even threw himself on what he thought was a live grenade, he always hated bullies and he never gave up on Bucky and he stared down Thanos and his armada knowing he and the earth were probably done for I don’t know pick and choose his great qualities there are plenty to go around!

Cap waited for the appropriate time to use it which was against Thanos when Thor was getting his ass handed to him.

He never used it before because he never had the opportunity to do so certainly not in AOU.

I now wonder about the worthy elevator joke it kind of puts that joke under new light in this new context especially since Cap fought in an elevator later on in the series.

Joss Whedon blew his chances the Russo’s are now rebooting AOU like it’s the PT of the Avengers movies lol

Who knows JW might chime in himself and say that yes that was always the case.

Loki what you getting all upset for I was almost half expecting you to start calling Cap a Mary Sue lol

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Vision probably had the best intro of any character in the MCU, cool powers, and he became a joke in IW. Civil War was the beginning of his downfall, but he was useless in IW. Vision was Michael Biehn in Terminator and Aliens, always getting carried around by his much stronger female companion. They didn't even bother to bring him back or fix him or something, just like Biehn in Alien 3.

 

[e30ernest]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

AOU sucks

Just putting this here:



I initially liked AA more than AoU, but he does bring some interesting points on comparing the two. I got a renewed appreciation for AuU from that video.

 

[ZE_501]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Exactly what I said... The Russo's think they are now Feige's equal. Making **** up that suits their plot holes.

Such Hubris from these mere mortals. They are not worthy either...

I see that Loki surviving in an alternate timeline is, in fact, canon.

(And he's a one-sixth collector)

 

[Sassafras]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

I'm sure they have. But they're also super nerds and perfectionists and so I still think that they thoroughly think these things through. Cameron is the same way (super-nerd perfectionist.) It'll be interesting to see if they can keep the quality post-MCU.

True, and I'm grateful they are comic geeks which IMO they have magnificently retooled to bring to film and updated costumes/characters to bring to screen without it being so comic canon it's laughable - e.g in theory Cap could've had a bright blue and yellow uniform split to show off the 6-pack chest, if the Russos had wanted to push the "canon"



But - like a lot of stuff in IW and EG - I think the Russos and writers sat down in their little room with character cards, and maybe a memo from Feige saying "you WILL use Captain Marvel somehow" and decided to tell a story a certain way. And I don't believe them re the hammer and I don't think that's what Whedon had in mind.

I wish they had just left any explanations more "mystical" e.g. Cap had almost been able to lift the hammer before. We've already been told "relics" determine when you are worthy, and that may not make sense to humans. I don't see why the hammer isn't something similar to a relic.
It's the second time in films that the hammer has determined that a human being about to selflessly give their life in the face of complete destruction is worthy.

If they need to explain it at all - IMO they wanted Cap to wield the hammer whether it made sense or not. Past that I don't believe the Russos.