Avengers: Endgame

[Khev]

I would’ve preferred Sif over Valkyrie as well but since it wasn’t contractually possible (they tried) I think Valkyrie was a good 2nd choice just because she was so freaking hot in Thor 3 lol

Yeah I don't fault them for it and Valkyrie was cool so it worked well enough, Sif just would have been a little sweeter IMO (and I think she's hotter than Tessa, lol.)

Come on, this is Captain America we're talking about. Do you really think he's going to experiment with his hairstyle when he's about 100 years old? He's going to part his hair in the same damn place he's parted it his entire life. And with Peggy being dead, he'd be in the NFG zone with respect to maintaining any kind of cover story regarding who he actually was - i.e., he's not going to part it on the other side to disguise his appearance.

Except he didn't part his hair the same way his entire life so it's not worth putting too much stock in IMO. The writers say he was at the funeral but "in the back" which assumedly means seated in the back, not that I actually believed that they had him in mind when filming the pallbearer scene, it's just a fun connection since there really is a white-haired fellow carrying it at the point furthest away from young Steve.

Anyway, I see that they've also gone on record as stating that alternate timelines are *only* created when you remove an infinity stone from the past, so if you go back in time and all stones are where they should be then you stay in the original timeline even if you "change" something (of course nothing really is changed, since 1945 became EG Cap's "present" and then him having kids with Peggy just became a part of the unaltered reality of that future going forward, the future that ended up becoming the present for his 2011 self and all the rest of the Avengers. So with that in mind Cap didn't actually have to return Mjolnir, it would have simply disappeared from 2013 reality and reappeared in 2023 which would have prevented it from being destroyed by Hela. However since he *did* bring it back we ended up with Ragnarok as it played out on screen. Yep, totally messes with your head.

So you can have alternate "people" (two Caps, two Nebulas, Gamoras and Thanoses) but not alternate timelines...unless you remove an Infinity Stone and don't put it back. Which is why 2014 Nebula could go to 2023 and get killed by her older self without causing her older self to then disappear like Bruce Willis at the end of Looper. Because at that time "2014 Nebula" was a copy of her past self (an alternate) but not her *actual* past self.

I'm inclined to think that if 2014 Gamora walked up to the Avengers after the battle and said "okay we stopped Thanos now please send me back" I bet Banner would say, "uh, *our* past is not your future, you're an alternate that was created as soon as you skipped ahead to our time. If we send you back then you'll be living in the past with our Gamora (the one who joined the GotG) so you might as well just stay here with us."

 

[Chakor]

So with that in mind Cap didn't actually have to return Mjolnir, it would have simply disappeared from 2013 reality and reappeared in 2023 which would have prevented it from being destroyed by Hela. However since he *did* bring it back we ended up with Ragnarok as it played out on screen.

Aw dang it Khev, why do you have to keep diminishing my love of EG.

 

[jye4ever]

Yup Sif definitely hotter than Valkyrie who can forget Sif’s red carpet dress lol

Remember when the little kid at the Expo in IM1 with the IM mask “officially” became young Peter Parker.


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[Khev]

Yup Sif definitely hotter than Valkyrie who can forget Sif’s red carpet dress lol

Remember when the little kid at the Expo in IM1 with the IM mask “officially” became young Peter Parker.

What?? No way, I have to watch that again now, lol.

Remember when Ultron called Cap "God's righteous warrior, as if you could live without a war." EG Cap proved him wrong.

Aw dang it Khev, why do you have to keep diminishing my love of EG.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Remember when Ultron called Cap "God's righteous warrior, as if you could live without a war." EG Cap proved him wrong.

Geriatric Soldier movie on the books starring Steve in old man make-up battling his way to get to that park bench in time to say goodbye.

 

[a-dev]

Anyway, I see that they've also gone on record as stating that alternate timelines are *only* created when you remove an infinity stone from the past

I'm not sure that makes sense though. Why would removing an Infinity Stone be the only thing that would create an alternate timeline? If I accept what BannerHulk says about time travel - that changing the past won't affect the present that they were in (the conversation that sprung from Rhodey suggesting they find and kill baby Thanos) - OK, if he says so - but surely any significant enough change to the past will set up a new branching timeline different from the original. Surely killing baby Thanos would in fact create a new timeline where the snap didn't happen - now, that would be no use to them because it did happen in their timeline and their mission is to bring everyone back to their particular 2023. I'm just disputing the suggestion that taking an Infinity Stone out of one timeline and not putting it back is the only thing that can create a new timeline. Man I use italics a lot.

Anyway, I see that they've also gone on record as stating that alternate timelines are *only* created when you remove an infinity stone from the past so if you go back in time and all stones are where they should be then you stay in the original timeline even if you "change" something (of course nothing really is changed, since 1945 became EG Cap's "present" and then him having kids with Peggy just became a part of the unaltered reality of that future going forward, the future that ended up becoming the present for his 2011 self and all the rest of the Avengers. So with that in mind Cap didn't actually have to return Mjolnir, it would have simply disappeared from 2013 reality and reappeared in 2023 which would have prevented it from being destroyed by Hela. However since he *did* bring it back we ended up with Ragnarok as it played out on screen. Yep, totally messes with your head.

So you can have alternate "people" (two Caps, two Nebulas, Gamoras and Thanoses) but not alternate timelines...unless you remove an Infinity Stone and don't put it back. Which is why 2014 Nebula could go to 2023 and get killed by her older self without causing her older self to then disappear like Bruce Willis at the end of Looper. Because at that time "2014 Nebula" was a copy of her past self (an alternate) but not her *actual* past self.

I'm inclined to think that if 2014 Gamora walked up to the Avengers after the battle and said "okay we stopped Thanos now please send me back" I bet Banner would say, "uh, *our* past is not your future, you're an alternate that was created as soon as you skipped ahead to our time. If we send you back then you'll be living in the past with our Gamora (the one who joined the GotG) so you might as well just stay here with us."

My brain is seeping out of my ears, eyes and nose. I just can't follow this and I'm a battle-hardened Terminator-geek.

I mean...Surely with Thanos, Gamora and company all removed from 2014 (and they don't return) a new timeline of events was created - not affecting our 2023 - but still being a brand new reality where the snap wouldn't even happen! Sounds to me like another victory, albeit one that our Avengers won't be privy to.....or.....not

 

[Khev]

My brain is seeping out of my ears, eyes and nose. I just can't follow this and I'm a battle-hardened Terminator-geek.

and lol at your "man I use italics a lot."

What I was trying to suggest is that any changes made without an IS result in a "pocket" alternate reality with regard to both people and the entire universe. And the "pockets" wink out of existence and revert back to the original reality as soon as you leave, unless you take an IS with you. So 2012 Loki got to skip town into a permanent alternate reality but everyone else reverted back to the one original timeline once Cap returned the other stones.

So basically if Rhodey, Nebula, HE, and BW went to 2014, ran into Thanos and his daughters, then escaped and went back to 2023 *without the stones* then that "new" 2014 they created by going back in time and talking to Thanos would have instantly disappeared from existence and the only 2014 remaining would have been the one that everyone remembered. But since they took the stones that new 2014 stayed around a bit, long enough for Thanos to take his army to 2023. Now a copy of Thanos and his minions existed in 2023 with that alternate 2014 universe still lingering.

Then in EG the Avengers destroy Thanos and Cap goes back and returns both stones to 2014 and the alternate 2014 can finally cease to exist.

Now I do think that for all this to work there does have to be an aspect of "fate" involved. Like there's only so much that a time-traveler is capable of changing. So Cap couldn't have gone back and just murdered the president or stopped 9/11 or something. No matter what he would do something would always happen to make all those events continue to play out. Even the Terminator films kind of explored the idea of Judgment Day and the eventual defeat of the machines as being an inevitability despite all of Skynet and Sarah Connor's efforts to change things.

As for Steve and Peggy in my mind they were always meant to be together so fate allowed him to marry her and have kids that were always meant to exist. Heck I could even see the tesseract in TFA (which we came to learn as being an Infinity Stone itself) as creating an alternate future that was never meant to be, that future of course being Cap frozen in the ice. Since an IS was directly involved in him being frozen and becoming "a man out of time" fate allowed him to go back and live the life he was meant for and in the period of time he was always meant to exist in.

So like duplicate 2014 Thanos interacting and affecting events in the "real" 2023 alternate frozen ice Cap got to interact with the real future and even overlap with himself. I can't tell you how many times I've fried my own brain and deleted entire paragraphs of this very post as I've tried to sort all this out, lol. If you started reading this before 11:19 pm CST then I'm afraid you'll have to start over to see my revised explanation, lol.

 

[a-dev]

So you're saying that even if you do make a seemingly major change in the past like killing Thanos as a baby, that change will only stand for as long as you stay there. The Infinity Stones correct the timeline as soon as you leave, unless of course you bring them with you in which case they can't...is that your theory or is it in the movie and I just wasn't understanding it?

and lol at your "man I use italics a lot."

What I was trying to suggest is that any changes made without an IS result in a "pocket" alternate reality with regard to both people and the entire universe. And the "pockets" wink out of existence and revert back to the original reality as soon as you leave, unless you take an IS with you. So 2012 Loki got to skip town into a permanent alternate reality but everyone else reverted back to the one original timeline once Cap returned the other stones.

Ho-hold on one second....the tesseract was stolen from 2 different times and only one could be returned....so what are the ramifications of that? And did Steve return it to 1970 or to 2012?

 

[Khev]

So you're saying that even if you do make a seemingly major change in the past like killing Thanos as a baby, that change will only stand for as long as you stay there. The Infinity Stones correct the timeline as soon as you leave, unless of course you bring them with you in which case they can't...is that your theory or is it in the movie and I just wasn't understanding it?

One of the writers recently said that you only create an alternate timeline if you remove an infinity stone (not just the time stone, any stone.) I believe that is exactly what the Ancient One was telling the audience but it kind of went over my head because of how entrenched I am with how *other* movies handle time travel. Notice she didn't say "look whatever you do here in 2012 is already creating an alternate future so don't do something crazy like killing Loki." No her only concern seemed to be the creation of an alternate reality specifically as a result of Banner taking her stone.

As a side note the number one point of confusion by audiences at early test screenings were their assumptions that things should have played out like Back to the Future which is why they added pickup shots of the characters calling out those other movies by name and then had Tilda Swinton come back to explain the one single way that a new timeline could be created and that is by removing a stone.

Ho-hold on one second....the tesseract was stolen from 2 different times and only one could be returned....so what are the ramifications of that? And did Steve return it to 1970 or to 2012?

Ramifications of Loki fleeing with the tesseract would be he created an alternate timeline from 2012 onward. UNLESS....Cap used the 1970 tesseract to replace the lost one from 2012 thus closing the new reality that Loki created which would mean that the original 2012 tesseract doesn't get stolen and then Cap could take *that* one back to 1970. Voila! All branches clipped including Loki!

Now how Cap got back to 1945 I'm not totally sure, lol. I'm guessing he was able to just set the coordinates of his Quantum wristband to go wherever he wanted (since he returned all stones to several different years on one trip) and just settled in 1945 where he then turned it off so that Banner couldn't bring him back.

 

[e30ernest]

and lol at your "man I use italics a lot."

What I was trying to suggest is that any changes made without an IS result in a "pocket" alternate reality with regard to both people and the entire universe. And the "pockets" wink out of existence and revert back to the original reality as soon as you leave, unless you take an IS with you. So 2012 Loki got to skip town into a permanent alternate reality but everyone else reverted back to the one original timeline once Cap returned the other stones.

So basically if Rhodey, Nebula, HE, and BW went to 2014, ran into Thanos and his daughters, then escaped and went back to 2023 *without the stones* then that "new" 2014 they created by going back in time and talking to Thanos would have instantly disappeared from existence and the only 2014 remaining would have been the one that everyone remembered. But since they took the stones that new 2014 stayed around a bit, long enough for Thanos to take his army to 2023. Now a copy of Thanos and his minions existed in 2023 with that alternate 2014 universe still lingering.

Then in EG the Avengers destroy Thanos and Cap goes back and returns both stones to 2014 and the alternate 2014 can finally cease to exist.

Now I do think that for all this to work there does have to be an aspect of "fate" involved. Like there's only so much that a time-traveler is capable of changing. So Cap couldn't have gone back and just murdered the president or stopped 9/11 or something. No matter what he would do something would always happen to make all those events continue to play out. Even the Terminator films kind of explored the idea of Judgment Day and the eventual defeat of the machines as being an inevitability despite all of Skynet and Sarah Connor's efforts to change things.

As for Steve and Peggy in my mind they were always meant to be together so fate allowed him to marry her and have kids that were always meant to exist. Heck I could even see the tesseract in TFA (which we came to learn as being an Infinity Stone itself) as creating an alternate future that was never meant to be, that future of course being Cap frozen in the ice. Since an IS was directly involved in him being frozen and becoming "a man out of time" fate allowed him to go back and live the life he was meant for and in the period of time he was always meant to exist in.

So like duplicate 2014 Thanos interacting and affecting events in the "real" 2023 alternate frozen ice Cap got to interact with the real future and even overlap with himself. I can't tell you how many times I've fried my own brain and deleted entire paragraphs of this very post as I've tried to sort all this out, lol. If you started reading this before 11:19 pm CST then I'm afraid you'll have to start over to see my revised explanation, lol.

I was going to write something long, but you covered a lot here... so I'll just go back to my corner and applaud.

As for that Loki thing, he did create an alternate branch, and it'll be the basis of his Disney+ show. I'm not sure if that branch would intersect with the main MCU though.

I had difficulty wrapping my head around EG's time travel mechanics too. Apparently, they based it off Quantum Physics. Because Science explains this nicely I think:

 

[Khev]

I was going to write something long, but you covered a lot here... so I'll just go back to my corner and applaud.

As for that Loki thing, he did create an alternate branch, and it'll be the basis of his Disney+ show. I'm not sure if that branch would intersect with the main MCU though.

I had difficulty wrapping my head around EG's time travel mechanics too. Apparently, they based it off Quantum Physics. Because Science explains this nicely I think:

Wow, that video was awesome. Thanks for posting.

And I feel like it was confirmed that the new Loki series is going to be about the things he does in an alternate reality with the tesseract however I do like that if I truly want EG to be the end with no *loose* ends then I can just assume that Cap used the 1970 tesseract to restore 2012 and then took the 2012 tesseract that Loki was no longer able to steal and set it in 1970. I like the option to have that closure.

At the end of the day I just feel like they've got enough leeway with what was shown on screen for us to satisfyingly connect the dots without feeling like we're doing the work of the writers for them. Like with the original Terminator these discussions just make me appreciate the film even more.

 

[jye4ever]

Great write up Khev I think you’re spot on regarding the MCU version of time travel it’s uniqueness can be appreciated while also understanding it was created to keep the ball rolling on characters they want to reuse and introduce.

But like you said it allows EG to remain contained if one so desires to follow that path.

I also loved DiFabio’s take on MCU time travel method he summed it up in just a few words...

“Sucked, Die!”






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[Khev]

Great write up Khev I think you’re spot on regarding the MCU version of time travel it’s uniqueness can be appreciated while also understanding it was created to keep the ball rolling on characters they want to reuse and introduce.

But like you said it allows EG to remain contained if one so desires to follow that path.

Thank you sir and I also realized that it seems to solve the supposed plot hole of Cap not bringing back a cube for the tesseract, scepter for the mind stone, and grey ball for the power stone since all he apparently had to do was just return those stones back to their original time in any form and then when he leaves that reality will correct itself and erase any changes they had previously made once Cap left without said stones.

It makes his mission much simpler (just appearing in 2012, tossing two stones on the ground and zipping out of there again) and also explains why the team trusted him to do it alone instead of sending multiple members again.

Also since he just had to return the Ether to 2013 (again all he'd need to do was appear in Asgard, drop the red stone on the ground and then leave which would cause the stone to immediately turn back into the Ether and insert itself back into Jane on its own) get this: He was actually free to *keep* Mjolnir. And maybe he *did.*

Once the Ether was back in 2013 that entire alternate timeline would have been eliminated leaving no need to "correct" any other aspect of it (like returning Mjolnir.) So Cap might have been inclined to keep it as his new weapon (since he was without a shield) and he was one of only two people in the universe who could wield it anyway. The first time I saw EG it didn't actually hit me that he was taking it back to Asgard so maybe my initial assumption was right and he had it from 1945 and onward all along.

 

[a-dev]

Ramifications of Loki fleeing with the tesseract would be he created an alternate timeline from 2012 onward. UNLESS....Cap used the 1970 tesseract to replace the lost one from 2012 thus closing the new reality that Loki created which would mean that the original 2012 tesseract doesn't get stolen and then Cap could take *that* one back to 1970. Voila! All branches clipped including Loki!

Now how Cap got back to 1945 I'm not totally sure, lol. I'm guessing he was able to just set the coordinates of his Quantum wristband to go wherever he wanted (since he returned all stones to several different years on one trip) and just settled in 1945 where he then turned it off so that Banner couldn't bring him back.

So by this suggestion it must mean that...the instant Cap returns to 2012 with the tesseract stone that timeline reverts to its original state? I'm not clear on why there would now be a duplicate tesseract stone for Cap to bring to 1970 though. Because why then wouldn't every other stone also be duplicated once it re-entered the time it was stolen from?

Thank you sir and I also realized that it seems to solve the supposed plot hole of Cap not bringing back a cube for the tesseract, scepter for the mind stone, and grey ball for the power stone since all he apparently had to do was just return those stones back to their original time in any form and then when he leaves that reality will correct itself and erase any changes they had previously made once Cap left without said stones.

It makes his mission much simpler (just appearing in 2012, tossing two stones on the ground and zipping out of there again) and also explains why the team trusted him to do it alone instead of sending multiple members again.

Also since he just had to return the Ether to 2013 (again all he'd need to do was appear in Asgard, drop the red stone on the ground and then leave which would cause the stone to immediately turn back into the Ether and insert itself back into Jane on its own) get this: He was actually free to *keep* Mjolnir. And maybe he *did.*

Once the Ether was back in 2013 that entire alternate timeline would have been eliminated leaving no need to "correct" any other aspect of it (like returning Mjolnir.) So Cap might have been inclined to keep it as his new weapon (since he was without a shield) and he was one of only two people in the universe who could wield it anyway. The first time I saw EG it didn't actually hit me that he was taking it back to Asgard so maybe my initial assumption was right and he had it from 1945 and onward all along.

I'm being a nuisance, I know, but how would Cap know it would all work this way? Would even Banner know?

 

[jye4ever]

Thank you sir and I also realized that it seems to solve the supposed plot hole of Cap not bringing back a cube for the tesseract, scepter for the mind stone, and grey ball for the power stone since all he apparently had to do was just return those stones back to their original time in any form and then when he leaves that reality will correct itself and erase any changes they had previously made once Cap left without said stones.

It makes his mission much simpler (just appearing in 2012, tossing two stones on the ground and zipping out of there again) and also explains why the team trusted him to do it alone instead of sending multiple members again.

Also since he just had to return the Ether to 2013 (again all he'd need to do was appear in Asgard, drop the red stone on the ground and then leave which would cause the stone to immediately turn back into the Ether and insert itself back into Jane on its own) get this: He was actually free to *keep* Mjolnir. And maybe he *did.*

Once the Ether was back in 2013 that entire alternate timeline would have been eliminated leaving no need to "correct" any other aspect of it (like returning Mjolnir.) So Cap might have been inclined to keep it as his new weapon (since he was without a shield) and he was one of only two people in the universe who could wield it anyway. The first time I saw EG it didn't actually hit me that he was taking it back to Asgard so maybe my initial assumption was right and he had it from 1945 and onward all along.

Simple yet eloquent in design I love how it simplifies the Ether-Jane conundrum.

Cap with his hammer warms my heart beat it scrawny Jane Thor lol

This movie is a perfect companion piece to IW.

Yet Wor-Gar will just come in and be like....”End Game....meh”

EG is not meant to be the exact same movie as IW it’s meant to be a companion for it.


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[Khev]

So by this suggestion it must mean that...the instant Cap returns to 2012 with the tesseract stone that timeline reverts to its original state? I'm not clear on why there would now be a duplicate tesseract stone for Cap to bring to 1970 though. Because why then wouldn't every other stone also be duplicated once it re-entered the time it was stolen from?

Well both 1970 and 2012 have missing tesseracts so I was trying to theorize a way that Cap could restore both. I believe the "official" current canon is that he only restored the tesseract that he and Stark took from 1970 and Loki is still out there in an alternate timeline somewhere ("coming soon to Disney+, subscribe in November!") but I was just wondering if he could have actually used the 1970 tesseract to replace the 2012 one (closing any alternates and bringing Loki with *his* tesseract back) and then he'd take the second tesseract (since 2012 would now have two under my theory) and return *that* one to 1970.

Cap did say to Banner "right, clip all the branches" right before he left. Leaving Loki out to run amok might be the biggest branch of all and would contradict Cap's statement in the movie so I do think there is evidence that they had a plan to undo Loki's escape as well.

I'm being a nuisance, I know, but how would Cap know it would all work this way?

Well he'd know that Loki took the tesseract since he heard about it first hand from Tony and Scott and then Banner could have coached him on what to do. But it is just speculation on my part, for all I know it wouldn't work the way I'm suggesting and he could only restore 1970 or 2012 but not both. I like the "both" option just because it closes EG's final loose end. It's not a battlefield I'd die on though.

Simple yet eloquent in design I love how it simplifies the Ether-Jane conundrum.

Cap with his hammer warms my heart beat it scrawny Jane Thor lol

This movie is a perfect companion piece to IW.

Yet Wor-Gar will just come in and be like....”End Game....meh”

EG is not meant to be the exact same movie as IW it’s meant to be a companion for it.

I'm actually glad that EG doesn't completely overshadow IW and that there are valid reasons for preferring either. They're just both that damn good.

But for me yeah EG all the way, lol.

 

[Khev]

Oops I skimmed over this sentence the first time:

Because why then wouldn't every other stone also be duplicated once it re-entered the time it was stolen from?

Okay to that I would say:

1. I'm not 100% sure that my theory on Cap using the 1970 tesseract to restore 2012 and then get the stolen tesseract from that time would work. Maybe it wouldn't.

2. The reason no other duplicate stones would be created when Cap restored the others is because for all the other stones he's returning the stones that were taken by the actual Avengers. So no duplication, only restoration. Only the tesseract was taken out of two separate points in time so that makes restoring it a bit of a unique endeavor. The more I think about it though the more I'm leaning toward Loki being totally being protected by the fact that he's in ownership of his own Infinity Stone and can't be forced back into any timeline no matter what Cap does.

To undo the alternate 2012 timeline Loki himself would probably have to bring the cube back.

 

[Khev]

Holy crap I might have thought of a way that *both* the writers and Russos interpretation can actually be compatible with each other.

Writers say Cap was always the father of Peggy's kids, Russo says Cap was in an alternate timeline and had to come back to the original timeline to give Sam the shield.

Well picture THIS:

Cap restores all stones except the 2012 tesseract so there is one timeline from 1945 to 2012. Cap then goes back in time and marries Peggy, has kids. That one single timeline of Cap being married to Peggy proceeds all the way to 2012 where it branches due to Loki stealing the tesseract. One Old Cap follows the Loki timeline, the other old Cap follows the original timeline.

In the Loki timeline Thanos never gets all six stones (since Loki has one and assumedly keeps it hidden) or maybe since that timeline is a new one that means Old Cap can use his knowledge of Thanos to prevent the snap (anything goes since it's a branch.) Therefore EG never happens in the Loki timeline and his shield is never destroyed. But Steve knows that there's the original timeline where EG was fought and that Sam will have no shield going forward. So he takes the undamaged shield from Loki's 2023, uses his wristband to enter the Quantum Zone and re-enter original 2023 where he gives it to Sam.

"But Khev doesn't that mean that Old Cap would have to steal the shield from young Cap of the alternate 2023?" Sort of.

So I picture Old Cap bestowing *two* artifacts in two alternate 2023's. In the Loki timeline he gives Mjolnir to his younger self in return for the shield (since Sam can't use the hammer but he can use the shield.) So he leaves Mjolnir with his alternate self and brings the shield to Sam. Voila!

 

[e30ernest]

My personal theory, the Avengers did not think there was another branch in 2012 because to them, the Tesseract never left 2012. Loki ran away with the Tesseract, but he is still in that 2012.

 

[jye4ever]

Holy crap I might have thought of a way that *both* the writers and Russos interpretation can actually be compatible with each other.

Writers say Cap was always the father of Peggy's kids, Russo says Cap was in an alternate timeline and had to come back to the original timeline to give Sam the shield.

Well picture THIS:

Cap restores all stones except the 2012 tesseract so there is one timeline from 1945 to 2012. Cap then goes back in time and marries Peggy, has kids. That one single timeline of Cap being married to Peggy proceeds all the way to 2012 where it branches due to Loki stealing the tesseract. One Old Cap follows the Loki timeline, the other old Cap follows the original timeline.

In the Loki timeline Thanos never gets all six stones (since Loki has one and assumedly keeps it hidden) or maybe since that timeline is a new one that means Old Cap can use his knowledge of Thanos to prevent the snap (anything goes since it's a branch.) Therefore EG never happens in the Loki timeline and his shield is never destroyed. But Steve knows that there's the original timeline where EG was fought and that Sam will have no shield going forward. So he takes the undamaged shield from Loki's 2023, uses his wristband to enter the Quantum Zone and re-enter original 2023 where he gives it to Sam.

"But Khev doesn't that mean that Old Cap would have to steal the shield from young Cap of the alternate 2023?" Sort of.

So I picture Old Cap bestowing *two* artifacts in two alternate 2023's. In the Loki timeline he gives Mjolnir to his younger self in return for the shield (since Sam can't use the hammer but he can use the shield.) So he leaves Mjolnir with his alternate self and brings the shield to Sam. Voila!

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