Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

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Superman 3 and 4 sucked. Also Watchmen and Johna Hex....weren't good either.

I (understandably) forgot about Jonah Hex but by all means add that to their list of fail.

Supes 3 & 4 were more the Salkind's failures that anything that could be laid at WB's feet.

And Watchmen?
Zack's a hack, baby.
Zack's a hack.
Nuff said.


What original formula?

Original in the sense of humanizing their characters to a degree not seen before. You know: the angst and daily struggles of a person who happens to don a costume and become a hero, rather than the other way around.
Also the careful attention to world-building a shared universe, rather than guest-star crossovers to sell a few more books that month.

Go read up on the Silver Age of comics -- in the 60's Marvel was breaking ground with this:

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While DC was grinding out issue after issue of this:

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The O'Neill and Adams Green Lantern/Green Arrow series finally got gritty and topical around 1970, but Marvel had already begun paving that road nearly a decade earlier. The same holds true today with the MCU.

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Meh, Marvel's fantastic 4 and Avengers were just their way to copy the justice league and make more money because DC was selling more comics with their crossover books. Even Stan Lee admits it. Even today, DC does the "new 52", then Marvel does their own version of it, called Marvel Now. Why...because DC was making lots of money and they briefly rejuvenated the comic industry again. Also, I think DC has better stories overall.
 
Meh, Marvel's fantastic 4 and Avengers were just their way to copy the justice league and make more money because DC was selling more comics with their crossover books. Even Stan Lee admits it. Even today, DC does the "new 52", then Marvel does their own version of it, called Marvel Now. Why...because DC was making lots of money and they briefly rejuvenated the comic industry again. Also, I think DC has better stories overall.


Call me a DC fanboy but I agree
 

Ah, the joyful anticipation of fans BEFORE they saw TDKR...

It's like the beginning of Terminator 2 when they show all the kids playing and then:

161643.jpg


"Three billion fans were disappointed on July 12, 2012. The survivors lived only to face a new nightmare. The war against the tornadoes..."

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Meh, Marvel's fantastic 4 and Avengers were just their way to copy the justice league and make more money because DC was selling more comics with their crossover books. Even Stan Lee admits it. Even today, DC does the "new 52", then Marvel does their own version of it, called Marvel Now. Why...because DC was making lots of money and they briefly rejuvenated the comic industry again. Also, I think DC has better stories overall.
Maybe Avengers was superficially influenced by the Justice League and Justice Society, and even the FF were influenced by the Challengers of the Unknown (though Kirby was behind that, as well). However, Gully is absolutely right. Marvel, and more specifically Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Steve Ditko for the most part, were responsible for deciding that the Marvel brand was going to be associated with stories about characters readers could relate to and care about, with problems, anxieties, and all the other stuff that real people go through. DC stories at the time were not very good by and large, certainly they were unsophisticated, though they were colorful/nice to look at and fun sometimes. Characters were interchangeable and the stories don't hold up very well unless you embrace the fun and cheese (ironically, the antithesis of DC's current film-making philosophy). That didn't really start to change until the late '60s. But both companies have stolen from each other in a variety of other ways over the years, of course. Contest of Champions and Secret Wars led to Crisis on Infinite Earths which led to the Infinity Guantlet, and so forth and so on. Miller's Daredevil and Alan Moore's Miracleman, V, and Swamp Thing foreshadowed the "dark and gritty" turn of comics across the board in stuff like Punisher, Dark Knight Returns, etc.
 
I liked the Watchmen movie, but there was a certain essence to the comic that was somehow missing from the film. I don't get nearly as much pleasure watching Snyder's attempt at a very faithful recreation as I do reading what is one of the great comic masterpieces. . .though in terms of Alan Moore's body of work, just another project :lol I can't put my finger on it totally, but it feels a bit more artificial and staged, and the characters aren't as rich, though you would expect that given that sacrifices had to be made for the purpose of fitting that sprawling story into a single movie and not a mini-series as I believe Terry Gilliam once considered.
 
Ah, the joyful anticipation of fans BEFORE they saw TDKR...

It's like the beginning of Terminator 2 when they show all the kids playing and then:

161643.jpg


"Three billion fans were disappointed on July 12, 2012. The survivors lived only to face a new nightmare. The war against the tornadoes..."

.2.gif

That's nothing, those survivor now live in purgatory, in a new age of disappointment called....The "AGE" of Ultron :lol

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WB /DC RULED cinema superhero films for nearly 30 years before Iron Man came along- granted there wasn't a ton of them but Superman and Batman were the envy of Marvel..
 
Meh, Marvel's fantastic 4 and Avengers were just their way to copy the justice league and make more money because DC was selling more comics with their crossover books. Even Stan Lee admits it.

Got a source for this (supposed) fact? Please show us where Leiber admits to this little tidbit. (Beyond the apocryphal golf game with Julius.)
I'm sure there are armies of lawyers looking for such a claim.

The truth is: there was too much cross-pollination to claim anything definitively.


Even today, DC does the "new 52", then Marvel does their own version of it, called Marvel Now. Why...because DC was making lots of money and they briefly rejuvenated the comic industry again. Also, I think DC has better stories overall.

We're all entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts.
Truth be told: comic book publishers have been stealing/copying/bandwagoning whatever trends will sell the product since the industry's inception back in 1938.

Go research DC's lawsuit against Fawcett for a deep meditation on this theme (Supes vs. Captain Marvel).

And go research how long it took DC to acknowledge the genius of Siegel & Shuster.
Go read how long it took those two trailblazers to finally get their dues (not that they ever did in their lifetimes).
Just go READ . . . then we can parley.

:peace
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