Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[tylerdurden]

Ok good to hear that..................what the audiences like is all that matters really

i can't speak for all audiences but the one i watched it with liked it.

 

[Rorywan]

I personally am confused by the "DC is doing something different with their universe and people just don't get that" & "I am glad they are taking a different approach than the Marvel films" arguments.

Can anyone explain to me why? Why exactly would they need to make their films darker and more adult than Marvel's films? Why are you happy that they are seemingly limiting their audience for no other reason than to be "different" than Marvel? Its not like the world wouldn't accept more comic book films geared towards broad audiences. Its not like these films don't stem from the same medium geared towards the exact same audience. Its not like kids don't like Captain America & Spider-MAn AND Batman & Superman and wouldn't like to be part of the audience for both. It isn't like the Marvel films are cheapening their characters by trying to make them as accessible as possible without compromising their integrity. It isn't like they aren't generally well-received, or that they are slammed by "mature" comic fans for not making it "for them" alone.

That just seems like an easy excuse to justify Snyder's approach. "Well he is doing this to make it different than Marvel." Okay... but why? Why does it HAVE to be different? It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you think about it. Why not worry about just making the best films you can instead of trying to make them "different"?

I just don't get it.

I am a bigger fan of the DC characters than I am the Marvel ones.... but so far I am much happier with Marvel Studios approach to their films. I am not afraid to admit when they make dogs though.

Iron Man 2 was pretty bad.
Iron Man 3 was awful.
Avengers 2 was mediocre.

Same goes for DC... but sadly there hasn't been a really good one in quite awhile. And sadly BvS continues this trend. And just saying "well its a different approach than Marvel" isn't a big enough band-aid to fix it. Sure, that could be used to excuse why it presents another grim, dreary look at superheroes... and why everyone seems to be sad most of the time... and the overwhelming lack of fun presented here (especially from Superman... who really should be a fun character). But it doesn't excuse its weakest point- The film has one of the messiest plot I have ever seen. It falls apart with even the slightest bit of questioning. And to make matters worse, the film gets incredibly overloaded with non-sensical sequences and "ooohhh... there is so and so" appearances that add nothing to an already herky-jerky story.

And a film like this is usually only as good as its villain. And if we call Eisen-Lex the main villain of this piece... Well, it just can't overcome how painfully awful he is.

Sorry to come across as a rant there. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. This is just mine.

Sallah

Great post.

 

[Jameson Rook]

not from KL per se, but close enough. and that's kinda insulting to insinuate that "malaysians eat up anything". as if we don't know quality. but i won't take offense. will just see this as ignorance.

Oh, my apologies, didn't mean to sound disparaging! I'm a Malaysian too!

We still do eat up anything though.

 

[spindrift]

I do not think Snyder is TRYING to make these films different for only the sake of being different- it is HIS extablished style of filmmaking and WB let him do it.

 

[sallah]

In any case, I was wondering- Is Batman still a detective in this one, or is he just all angry and murderin'?

Spoiler

I guess he sorta shows his detective side while tracking down the "White Portuegese" (who he thinks is a person but is really a ship). But the reason for tracking it down is because it has Kryptonite on it... and I don't remember them ever saying how he figured that out. So its basically like "oh here look he is using his Batcomputer to figure this out".... but they never cover how he got to the point about knowing why Kryptonite hurts Supes, how Luthor has it, and why it would be on the ship.

And ya know... thinking back I want to say that he is actually starts going after the White Portuegese in the film before Lex even has the Kryptonite cleared to move into the country on a boat. So... Why would he be looking for it when that hasn't happened yet? I am not 100% sure the sequences came in that order though. I could be wrong. Either way- No explanation that I can recall for how he arrived at the knowledge of where it would be and what it could do.

The place where he could have actually used his detective skills... Uncovering 2 frame up jobs on Superman (one of which directly involves a Wayne employee) that would have pretty much shown him that Superman isn't really a threat and some nefarious person (Eisen-Lex) just wants the world to believe he is... He doesn't bother to look into. He just takes it all at face value that Superman is a threat and needs to be ended.

Sallah

 

[beeshaw]

I can't see WB letting Snyder direct Justice League...maybe Affleck should direct JL now.

It starts filming April 11th. I don't see them firing him now. Maybe pull the reigns in a bit though.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

Hey guys, just woke up from an afternoon nap. Are the reviews in yet?

 

[JAWS]

Well my expectations are lowered. Which is a good thing. I won't bash on this film as I have yet to see it. I will say that Batman killing people is going to hurt my enjoyment. He won't be Batman to me. It works for a character like The Punisher but Bats is supposed to be above that. I don;t see Superman excepting a person like Batman if Batman kills. Perhaps ignoring him but not joining up with the Justice League with him... I don't know and will have to wait and see... I am a bit worried now.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Well my expectations are lowered. Which is a good thing. I won't bash on this film as I have yet to see it. I will say that Batman killing people is going to hurt my enjoyment. He won't be Batman to me. It works for a character like The Punisher but Bats is supposed to be above that. I don;t see Superman excepting a person like Batman if Batman kills. Perhaps ignoring him but not joining up with the Justice League with him... I don't know and will have to wait and see... I am a bit worried now.

Yeah, shouldn't Batman go to jail if he's killing people?

 

[ZaCHw117]

Yeah, my wife liked it.

I did like Colossus/Negasonic....she was cute.

You didnt like DP Jye? But all those lolz!

 

[Matt S]

Movie sounds like ***.....may wait for $2 blu rental from Redbox

 

[JAWS]

A) Batman of 1939 isn't Batman of today

B) Burton Batman is Bizarroworld Batman.

C) Random examples folks can pull from comics here and there are clearly the exceptions. And the general understanding of contemporary Batman is that he doesn't wantonly kill.

D) Batman: Animated Series Batman is the template from which the vast majority of other Batmen should be based. Exceptions are allowed, like Brave and the Bold and LEGO Batman. But Snyder doesn't earn that pass, dammit.

Of course, we've had the "should Batman kill?" debate here for years. And I doubt anyone will sway anyone else's opinion. But the gif here reinforces my opinion that Snyder doesn't know or appreciate these characters in the same way that I do. That isn't to say that he cares less about Batman or Superman. He just doesn't see them as I do, and so there's a disconnect. Others can love that this Batman kills, and that's fine. But I hate it. It's a core defining trait as I think of him--great detective skills, uber intelligence, darkness and theatricality, a cape and cowl, rich with lots of toys, a belief that governmental authorities can't do it all, not much humor most of the time, problems with building personal relationships, no super powers, no guns, a somber and muted hope, but a hope nonetheless, that the mentally ill can be rehabilitated, and of course, no killing.

Well said.. Rep point given

Exceptions or not, no one version is more or less acceptable than another. They're all valid interpretations of the character throughout his history. I agree with you that TAS Batman is probably my ideal version of the character, but I'm not going to say that a particular version sucks just because it doesn't adhere to that characterization of Batman.

Other then 1939 Batman and the 89 batman (I did not like him killing in that one either) O can't think of 9or just don;t know of ) any stories of Batman flat out killing people. Not like the gif here and not like in Batman 89.. Are there are other examples?

As for the "they are all Valid interpretations"... Well that don;t make them good ones

 

[tylerdurden]

Oh, my apologies, didn't mean to sound disparaging! I'm a Malaysian too!

We still do eat up anything though.

maybe YOU do? i sure hope not. none of the malaysians i know are as gullible. in fact, not even the ones i don't know. for example, i was at two separate screenings for transformers 3 and 4, and both times not only did the audience NOT applaud, there were a lot of very annoyed reactions coming out of the hall.

 

[sallah]

Yeah, shouldn't Batman go to jail if he's killing people?

Sallah

 

[Snake Plissken]

View attachment 254310

Sallah

 

[JAWS]

Yeah, shouldn't Batman go to jail if he's killing people?

Yes he should.

 

[JAWS]

View attachment 254310

Sallah

 

[sallah]

Other then 1939 Batman and the 89 batman (I did not like him killing in that one either) O can't think of 9or just don;t know of ) any stories of Batman flat out killing people. Not like the gif here and not like in Batman 89.. Are there are other examples?

As for the "they are all Valid interpretations"... Well that don;t make them good ones

Just to clarify before everybody jumps on '89.... Burton, Uslan and the rest were actually purposefully doing that 1939 Batman in Batman '89 (which includes the use of lethal force) in order to get back to the characters initial roots and move as far away from the Batman '66 stigma as they could. So there is a reasoning for him crossing the line in Burton's films as the original version of the character also did this.

There is no '66 stigma prevailing in the public now as there was before Batman '89. They don't need to darken him as far as they can to get him off the other end of the spectrum.

You probably knew that already, and I'm not meaning this to come off as correcting you. I just am stating it for those that might not be aware.

Sallah

 

[karamazov80]

He is hunting down Superman to kill him just in case he turns...

But won't go hunt down Joker because he is possibly in prison even though he knows he is a horrible creature that has proven he really does want to kill as many people as possible?

Sorry man. I get what you're saying... But it just doesn't make sense for the film to do it this way.

Sallah

I haven't seen the movie. And probably won't for another week or two. But, to play devil's advocate, as bad as the Joker can be, Superman can theoretically be much much much worse. All the folks Joker will kill in a lifetime, Superman could take them out in about 5 seconds.

So, trying to step into Snyder et al.'s mindset here, if I say that Batman kills, and that he is super paranoid about threats to the well-being of the public, taking out Supes would be pretty high up the "to do" list. But as you say, Joker is a known quantity, so not only letting him live, but allowing him to go to Arkham Asylum? If Bats is Punisher-like here, I don't get that at all, and am not sure how they would explain such a decision. Maybe Batman wanted to kill him, but didn't have any control? Like, he was arrested before Bats had a chance, then Joker worked the system to end up in Arkham despite Batman's preference that he be locked away forever/given the electric chair?

 

[sallah]

I haven't seen the movie. And probably won't for another week or two. But, to play devil's advocate, as bad as the Joker can be, Superman can theoretically be much much much worse. All the folks Joker will kill in a lifetime, Superman could take them out in about 5 seconds.

So, trying to step into Snyder et al.'s mindset here, if I say that Batman kills, and that he is super paranoid about threats to the well-being of the public, taking out Supes would be pretty high up the "to do" list. But as you say, Joker is a known quantity, so not only letting him live, but allowing him to go to Arkham Asylum? If Bats is Punisher-like here, I don't get that at all, and am not sure how they would explain such a decision. Maybe Batman wanted to kill him, but didn't have any control? Like, he was arrested before Bats had a chance, then Joker worked the system to end up in Arkham despite Batman's preference that he be locked away forever/given the electric chair?

I have a counter on this, but it ventures into spoilers... so I understand if you don't check it out.

Spoiler

I will give you that Superman has more power and therefore potentially a bigger threat IF he ever went bad.... but Batman also kills a bunch of Lex's hired goons. Those guys are easily less than a Joker-level threat.

And at the end of the film, Batman has absolutely zero problems breaking into a maximum security facility just to threaten Luthor... Why would he not go in and end Joker the same way?

Sallah