BB is still just awesome to me. But I still get lolz out of the Schumacher flicks so BvS HAS to be as enjoyable as those right? Right???
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)
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jye4ever
Broke and happy
I have a constant loop of everything.
My loop is so varied though that it all seems like we're watching in moderation.
As long as it's more Schumacher and less Sucker Punch.
The Batman Professor
Super Freak
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Watch all three all of the time.
Tom Hardy's Bane is so damn entertaining for me.
As for this new piece, I have almost zero interest. I think Affleck is a thundering bore, and casting Eisenberg as Luthor was like playing Russian Roulette with 6 bullets.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
You should, get the 6" Mezco along with the Mezco Batmobile instead!
They look nice. I have two of their Dark Knight Returns figures, and they have a good quality. Having said that, I really like how the Mafex figures look, especially the armor Batman...but, if I don't like the film, then what's the point in buying them. I'll just wait for JL.
Carrey is fun to watch and the film is silly...but it knows how silly it is, and it doesn't try to be serious. Apparently BVS has no humor. I also agree about the TDKT...as much as I like those films, I can't just watch them... unlike some other films that aren't that good, but are enjoyable.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
GasparZizou
Super Freak
Man that was a great post and I can't disagree with the core it, Marvel indeed has some dark stuff, I'm not saying it doesn't, I'm saying it's not the thick of it, not by much, but it's not, and it hasn't for 20 or so years.I'm gonna have to dissagree on that. Recently, I've been feeling fed up with Marvel. Constant relaunches, Gwenpool and Spider-Gwen, Squirell Girl, all bloody **** that made my blood boil. So, I went back and started reading some older stuff from both companies to come to a conclusion. My verdict? Despite the recent trends, Marvel was and is much darker than DC.
Let's take death for example. DC's most famous is Superman's, which took place in 1992. There, Kal, valiantly sacrifices his life and goes out like a hero, protecting the world. It's a good tale. The noble hero goes out in a blaze of glory and the whole world cries out in sadness. Of course, being Superman, he came back a while later. DC capitalized on his absence and so and so and so. Twas a good tale.
Now let's look at Marvel's most famous death, Mar-Vell's, which occured in 1982, a whooping 10 years before Superman's. There, Mar-Vell dies not during a physical battle, but out of losing the fight with cancer. The whole story centers around him at first trying to find a cure for his disease (not even knowing what it is at first) and later coming to terms with it. In the end, he succumbs to his illness, suroundedby his friends in a modest bed. No grand fight, no spectacle, the man just... dies. Before he crosses the veil, he shares a very touching scene with Thanos, his mortal enemy. There, he accepts death and walks towards the light alongside his rival. That's probably a dream sequence, and it symbolizes the fact that he's letting go and accepting the inevitable. Honestly, it's one of my favourite pages ever:
To this day, Captain Mar-Vell has not come back. 34 years later, and he's still in the grave. Now, you can argue that DC has had other, more high profile deaths such as Barry Allen's. Well, thing is, this one special because it's not a classic death. It's not about overcoming the odds and emerging victorious, it's about accepting defeat. It's about life itself. That sometimes, no matter how strong, or valiant or noble you are, you can go out like the average joe. Just by your cells multiplying out of control.
Apart from that, most Iron Man comics deal with morality and the concept of war. Why is Stark above the rest? Why does he get to have such a brilliant weapon while pretending to be a peace-keeping agent? You can see that, more often than not, Stark's happy-go-lucky self is a facade. Look no further than Fraction's brilliant run to see such examples. Personally, Fraction's Iron Man might be my favourite run ever. His rise and fall, the character arc throughout it, it's deeply moving and powerful stuff.
In another corner, Moon Knight, at least the first vol, deals with spirituality. But not in an "my aura and my inner self are aligned" way, but in a realistic and down to earth manner. He's a deeply violent man who's trying to find redemption by being the exact same person. He hasn't, for the most part, changed. He hasn't stopped being bloodthirsty. He's still that same merc who gunned down innocents, but because he despises himself, he indulges in a fantasy that can offer him salvation. The Stained Glass Scarlet issues, about a nun who murdered her own son because he was a mob boss are usually the best examples of that.
The X-Men are the best allegory for opression and minorities. "God loves, Man kills" is a classic, and it reads more like a "lost" Image title than a superhero comic. The good stuff can get lost in the endless stories of mutants versus robots, but at its core, the Mutants still stand for the fight against prejudice. Morisson's New X-Men, albeit crazy, portrayed both the beautiful and ugly sides of them. Accepting who you are, versus becoming the very thing you fight against through systematic opression.
I don't think I need to mention Daredevil or Punisher. Both those characters deal with the reality of society and "the streets" much better than anything else. There's no sugarcoating in there, events are protrayed exactly as they are. "The Slavers" is an especially chilling Punisher story, as it captures the human traffic phenomenon perfectly,
I could go on and on and on, but, my point is, Marvel's characters are faulty. They're not perfect or great. Whereas DC deals with the gold standard, Marvel stoops down and deals with the rejects. It's no coincidence that whenever Marvel tries to copy DC characters they never work. Quasar and Green Lantern, Sentry and Superman, etc, etc. They're at their best when they're dealing with the psychos, the monsters and the pricks. Nighthawk is rubbish. But Supreme Power Nighthawk? The man whose parents were the victims of a hate crime who grew up and became just as racist as his "enemies"? Now that's interesting.
I won't pretend that DC doesn't have good stories. Longbow Hunters and Green Lantern/Green Arrow tackled racism and such issues, but they were too on the nose. Hal was reduced to an unrecognizable character in order to play the conservative to Ollie's liberal. The issues they stumbled across were a bit too contrived and not really realistic. the "blue skins vs black skins" line I find rather cringy. Nevertheless, they have great stories, they do. It's just that, for the most part, they're well-written super-hero stories, whereas Marvel's, if you change the main characters, could very well make for great dramas.
And that's the fundemental difference between the two. DC is portraying the "endgame", but through the lenses of pessimism, in order to make the heroes triumph over injustice no matter the cost. It's mean to show that, even if things look bleak and miserable, the good guys will always win. Superman will come back. The sun will rise. Batman, for all of his grumpiness, will let his guard down when he has to. Marvel portrays a realistic and cold world through happy-go-lucky glasses. That's meant to showcase the reality of the situation. That you can't save everyone. That you can't change the world. That you are bound by society's rules, no matter how unjust they are. But, because they are the heroes, they remain optimistic. That maybe, just maybe, I'll be able to change something, no matter how small.
Anyway, I know this went really off-topic, but these are just my 0.02$. I'm more well-versed in Marvel so I'm probably missing tons of stuff on DC, but that's my personal take on the whole thing. Neither is superior, but, IMO at least, Marvel's the more realistic one. Not the grittier one, but the one who portrays things how they are.
And you know very well the reason Mar-Vell hasn't returned is not because his death was so significant, it's because they need that cardboard cut-out of a character Carol Danvers to fill their PC quota.
I liked the part of Marvel looking at stuff through happy go lucky glasses, it's a very nice framing of their philosophy, but I can't agree with the DC part, DC is pretty optimistic, it's just more serious about stuff, and I've always said this, DC is more mythological in their approach, scanning from above, while Marvel is ground level, DC goes down to human nature, Marvel goes to human imperfection in a society, so I agree with you on that one, but for each Daredevil or Punisher, you get a Spiderman an Iron Man and a She-Hulk, for every God of Thunder run, you get 3 Whor series, at least that's how it's been lately.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
Mezco just announced their Armored Batman.
It's like the Mandarin and HT a few years ago
Batman will sell though...it's Batman.
ironwez20
Super Freak
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Damn this is making me sad. I love DC and I love Marvel. i want to see them both do well and not fail so hard. From green lantern to MOS and now from what it looks like this? Why is it that they just can't get this right? There tv shows and cartoons are so good, why is it so hard to do movies for them.
If Mar-Vell ever came back for real, people will riot..that's the other Marvel death that can't be touched along with Uncle Ben
GasparZizou
Super Freak
I ended up cancelling my Mezco BvS PO a month ago, I'm only sticking with the Mafex ones, they look great.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
If Batman is as good in this as i'm reading than he just might replace 89/BB/TDK as my go to cinematic Batman.
But I also need a cool Batmobile scene in BvS or it won't work out.
But I also need a cool Batmobile scene in BvS or it won't work out.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
The tv shows and cartoons usually have a capable person in charge, but the films...not so much. The Nolan films worked because he was in charge with his own little team, which includes his brother and his wife. Snyder might not be a great storyteller and on top of that he's probably trying to please a bunch of WB executives, but that's the impression that I get from the outside.
Beats me...I gave up Marvel comics after Civil War. I pick up an issue here and there as a feeler, but it's been pretty bad
Honestly, it is the thick of it. Iron Man has always been dark and depressing with a few glimmers of hope. Moon Knight the same. Punisher, Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Doctor Strange, Spider-Woman, Hulk, etc, etc. The only books that aren't dark are the ones that are straight-up super-hero books like Spider-Man (which especially under Slott has some powerful moments) or fantastical ones like Thor. Even Captain America, especially the Gruenwald issues dealt more with the socio-political issues that plagued America rather than straight-up heroics.
Eh, Captain Marvel has been relaunched countless times, but never with Mar-Vell. There was Rick Jones, Genis-Vell and even Phyla-Vell. Mar-Vell will never return now, because of course Carol has the title, but he never would have. Why? Because his death is significant, there's no way around that. If they wanted to bring him back, they would have done years ago.
Eh, same goes for DC. For every Batman and Hellblazer, there's a Legion of Superheroes and Superman. These companies have been around for decades. If you go digging, you'll find tons of dark, gritty, funny, dramatic, boring, thrilling, etc, etc books. DC has Ragman, damn Ragman! And meanwhile, Marvel has Slapstick. They both have put, are putting and will put out comics that cover all bases. Some will click, some will not. But they do have fundementaly different approaches to them.
As for the current books, I can't say that DC's killing it. They have Batman, Omega Men, Grayson, Secret Six and Midnighter, which are great, but not really dark. They're more happy-go-lucky satires. Meanwhile, Marvel's highest-rated books include Old Man Logan, an extremely violent Wolverine who recently tried to murder Cho, Doctor Strange which deals with the horrifying consequences of magic and Spider-Woman which deals with motherhood. Ultimates is a straight-up philosophical book that reminds me of Starlin's Warlock mixed with Kirby's the Fourth World.
It all comes down to preference though. Anyone can do blood and gore, but really mature issues sometimes are devoid of cursing or violence. Waid's Daredevil, albeit whimsical, had some really powerful scenes that had more to do with human interaction rather than violence and shock value. In the end, it's all about your very own POV.
GasparZizou
Super Freak
You know what I'd like? If DC just did what they do with their animated movies (pre 52 of course), and just adapted story arcs to movies and build the universe off that.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Nah, it's just a teaser. It'll probably end up being Ock (seeds have been planted), or it'll be a story where he seemingly comes back. We'll see...
DC needs to realize that they have Dini & Timm sitting around doing nothing
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
I find that it's easier to get into DC comics than it is to get into Marvel books. Although, I loved reading X MEN comics in the early 90's.
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