Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[Thundercleese]

Because he's the actual Superman that we're talking about?



I'm sure you don't, but like it or not he's one of many inspiring heroes who is flawed and gets upset and has been featured in actual books you can buy in a book store that compare him to Christ, just like Superman.



Your opinions aren't grounded in anything substantial enough to withstand scrutiny? Okay. Noted. We can move on...

You are adorable.

 

[JAWS]

I thought Superman was great in this one.

 

[IrishJedi]

This isn't about understanding or not understanding a character.

Artists and creative people have their own individual sensibilities. This is a different interpretation of Superman. You can like it or not like it, and that's cool. But to infer someone "doesn't get" a character, story, etc simply because they have a much different take on it is condescending, elitist B.S.

You know, it is possible to dislike this take on Superman without inferring as if those creating it aren't mentally capable of grasping what it is you'd prefer to see.

God the Internet ****ing sucks. Everyone is Comic Book Guy

 

[crows]

this is cute

 

[SNIKT1950]

This superman feels like life is already a complete burden and if it wasn't for Lois or his mom he would have probably given up like Dr Manhattan, Like I said Earlier, this Superman made me think of someone that would probably end up reaching Dr Manhattan type of mentality after a while.

I did feel parallels to Manhattan, Not just because he directed both movies but this superman made me feel like he could end up like Comic Dr Manhattan. Eventually, if he did not have Lois I could see him abandoning Earth if his mom was not there or something.

Exactly, that's where Snyder is taking him. They're adapting INJUSTICE, where Superman turns on the people of Earth after Lois, his key link to mankind, dies. Most people before watching BvS, expected a straightforward JLA film where Supes leads the pack into battle. That's cool but nowhere near as compelling as Superman failing to live up to the expectations and ideals of both his fathers. Instead of being a good man, he'll become a bad one. Instead of leading the people of Earth into the sun, he'll lead them into darkness. The Manhattan example is great because basically after BvS, Supes is where Manhattan was when he left to Mars. The difference is Manhattan didn't have to grieve Silk Specter. Superman will have to grieve Lois and it will break him psychologically.

Its completely unorthodox for a cinematic adaptation of Superman or better yet for a JLA film, but that's what I think makes it so desirable for me as a fan of the character. Where Nolan showed us the beginning, fall and rise of Batman, Snyder aims to dissect Supes in a similar way.

There was a simple, popcorny way of doing Superman in this new series, but we've seen that before [in five films] so I'm glad they went the INJUSTICE route instead.

 

[Khev]

One of the good point he made, which I never thought about, is how he just leaves Washington after the explosion....he doesn't say anything...he doesn't address the people, offer any words of hope or words of comfort and wisdom.

To the people picketing against him outside? They wanted him gone. His presence caused an explosion (or so he would have assumed.) It's not like they showed people trapped under rubble calling for help and he left them. It's not a huge stretch to assume he heard no heart beats or breathing in the vicinity (remember his senses picked up a drowning Lois from like a quarter mile away) and so he left in order to prevent further outrage.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Agreed. I would agree more with you that he just doesn't get him. And yes, him just flying off after the Capital blows up is the most non-Superman thing ever.

Yeah, that's probably one of worst things this version of Superman has done. Like that guy said, Superman's strength wasn’t just physical, it was moral, but this character is too busy feeling sorry for himself and questioning whether he should do the right thing, and when he should do the right thing, like saying something after the explosion, he doesn't. It's a simple gesture that speaks volume about the character's moral compass. At this point, Capt America in the MCU is more like the real Superman. He puts others first and does the right thing.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

To the people picketing against him outside? .

Yes, even them...and to the world watching on television, because it's the right and decent thing to do.

 

[Khev]

You don't have to like a character to understand the character.

You don't have to like a director to understand him either.

 

[Khev]

God the Internet ****ing sucks. Everyone is Comic Book Guy

Yep and don't you dare call them out on their BS. They don't like that.

 

[Thundercleese]

Yep and don't you dare call them out on their BS. They don't like that.

Too funny. Hello pot, the kettle called.

 

[IrishJedi]

Yes, even them...and to the world watching on television, because it's the right and decent thing to do.

That's not this Superman. He's a good guy who wants to do the right thing (and does help others, which is shown) but he's also feared, disrespected and not appreciated by a cynical world (which, frankly, is exactly what it would be like if someone like this actually existed today). He's filled with pathos and constantly questioning himself and the world around him. It's a different take on the character, yes. But there's also been many other interpretations of Superman during his 78 years of existence. And happy bubblegum Superman with arms & legs akimbo is bound to return to the big screen someday. And I'll enjoy that again, too.

 

[Khev]

Yes, even them...and to the world watching on television, because it's the right and decent thing to do.

So right and decent people don't make mistakes? I agree that Evans Cap is closer to Reeve in his ideology and convictions. And I do like his character more than Cavill's Superman. But Cavill Superman isn't "failing" at being Reeve. He's suceeding at being Cavill. How come Keaton doesn't have to follow West's moral code but dammit Cavill needs to follow in the footsteps of Reeve?

 

[Khev]

Too funny. Hello pot, the kettle called.

You don't see me upset that you're "whining about my opinion." You want to play, let's play. Call me out on my BS. Go ahead. What point have I made that doesn't hold water?

 

[SNIKT1950]

Yeah, that's probably one of worst things this version of Superman has done. Like that guy said, Superman's strength wasn’t just physical, it was moral, but this character is too busy feeling sorry for himself and questioning whether he should do the right thing, and when he should do the right thing, like saying something after the explosion, he doesn't. It's a simple gesture that speaks volume about the character's moral compass. At this point, Capt America in the MCU is more like the real Superman. He puts others first and does the right thing.

Cap is a WWII vet who used to get beat up for being small and infirm.

Supes is a Kansas civilian who's actually a virtually indestructible alien that has been randomly stopping crimes and saving people in distress for a few years.

The Snyder Superman hasn't been through what Cap has been through. That's another reason Snyder wanted Batman to lead the JLA. He's been at it for 20 years. The Snyder Superman can eventually become a Cap-like figure of pure moral restraint, civic duty and honor. He needs to go through some **** first though, to the chagrin of many Donner Superman fans.

 

[Thundercleese]

You don't see me upset that you're "whining about my opinion." You want to play, let's play. Call me out on my BS. Go ahead. What point have I made that doesn't hold water?

You are just upset that people don't fall in line with your opinion so you do your little condescending remarks like the one about Frodo from a book you buy in the bookstore.

 

[Khev]

happy bubblegum Superman with arms & legs akimbo is bound to return to the big screen someday. And I'll enjoy that again, too.

Absolutely. It's fun to see the phases these characters go through, watch the palettes be cleansed, and then have it begin again. Doesn't mean that any one version is inherently hated or misunderstood by those who portray it. Though Goyer did seem mostly interested in presenting the character as a wish fulfillment vessel of lashing out against people who bullied him earlier in life which I do personally think is wrong for the character.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

That's not this Superman. He's a good guy who wants to do the right thing (and does help others, which is shown) but he's also feared, disrespected and not appreciated by a cynical world (which, frankly, is exactly what it would be like if someone like this actually existed today). He's filled with pathos and constantly questioning himself and the world around him. It's a different take on the character, yes. But there's also been many other interpretations of Superman during his 78 years of existence. And happy bubblegum Superman is bound to return to the big screen someday. I'll enjoy that again, too.

I agree that this is a different version and if they want to go the Marvel route and give Sups problems and issues too, that's fine, but then don't tell me his all about Hope and wearing HOPE on his chest, when instead of being inspirational....and as Jor El said, "give people an ideal to strive towards", he lacks that inherent rightness that the classic version is known for. If he's like us, and he doubts himself and struggles against his urge to do the right thing out of fear of what people might think or do, then tone it down with the whole hope thing.

 

[Khev]

You are just upset that people don't fall in line with your opinion so you do your little condescending remarks like the one about Frodo from a book you buy in the bookstore.

No, the bookstore comment was in response to your claim that I mentioned Frodo as some sort of "straw man." Aragorn, Gandalf, and Frodo representing three facets of God (King/Spirit of Guidance/Sacrificial Lamb) is a real thing that books have been published about. Superman's parallels to Christ being a baby sent from above to light the world, etc., is also a real thing. Point being people sometimes make heroes that are Messianic in nature and sometimes they're happy and cheery and sometimes they're more melancholy or flawed but it doesn't inherently mean that the author of said character has some sort of contempt if they convey the latter qualities.

 

[Khev]

I agree that this is a different version and if they want to go the Marvel route and give Sups problems and issues too, that's fine, but then don't tell me his all about Hope and wearing HOPE on his chest, when instead of being inspirational....and as Jor El said, "give people an ideal to strive towards", he lacks that inherent rightness that the classic version is known for. If he's like us, and he doubts himself and struggles against his urge to do the right thing out of fear of what people might think or do, then tone it down with the whole hope thing.

I agree that there have been some genuine missteps with this new Superman. Goyer's writing or Snyder having him be smug in the interrogation room and with the downed satelitte. I do think those were real goofs. All I'm arguing against is the notion that Snyder hates the character and/or wants him dead. I do think the BvS Supes IS a decent hero and good guy though, even in spite of some of the mistakes he makes on screen. He probably could have done more at the Capitol but he was clearly rattled and upset. He made a mistake in a time of weakness as opposed to looking around with smug douchery and then flying over to Lois to make out with her or something.