Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

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I wanted to like this movie, and initially after seeing it, I thought it was pretty bold...but now that I've had a few days to think about it, it has a really bad "aftertaste". I accept that normally with fantasy/sci-fi/superhero stuff there's supposed to be a lot of suspension of disbelief, but even within the fantastical universe on screen, there should be some consistency. Almost nothing makes sense in this film. The most glaring flaws for me were how DUMB the three main male characters are.

Batman is even less of a "detective" than the Nolan version who relied a lot on Lucius Fox's tech. He's not that smart or stealthy at all (Mercy catches him in the server room, Diana steals his drive from right under him).

Superman flies right into Doomsday head-on with the Kryptonite spear -- instead of say, throwing it at him / getting one of the others to throw it/ attacking him from the back or side so he doesn't see it coming/ spearing him in the head to end it quickly (why not? too violent?). No strategy at all. I can accept that Snyder wanted to have Superman sacrifice himself stopping the monster, but it was actually done better in the comics -- earth shattering fisticuffs -- because there was no other option. With the Kryptonite spear, Supes had a few options, and he picked the dumbest, most self-exposing one.

Lex Luthor - criminal genius - what exactly does he want? If everything goes according to his brilliant plan, Batman (or Doomsday) would have killed Superman and then there is still the teeny little problem of the invincible Doomsday monster --- now with no Superman to stop him. In fact, the very first thing that Doomsday does when he gains consciousness is try to kill Lex with a fist smash (how lucky that Superman was there). How was Lex going to stop / control Doomsday after he killed Superman? What a dumb plan.

I'm really disappointed with the direction that WB/DC is going with their movie universe. Like others I thought Batman vs Superman was too ambitious of an idea to try to quickly build a universe to catch up to Marvel -- but I was optimistic that there was a way to do it right. Snyder is not the right person to headline this though. He doesn't have a firm grasp on these characters and their motivations, and he's terrible at plotting things out for his "original" (used that term loosely) stories. But as noted, I don't think WB cares. Execs are milking this genre and just pumping out these movies for the sake of pumping them out. They get a big opening weekend because of the buzz, and probably sell a lot of merch, but people will get tired of paying to see crap. It won't be long until this strategy isn't profitable at all anymore.
 
I wanted to like this movie, and initially after seeing it, I thought it was pretty bold...but now that I've had a few days to think about it, it has a really bad "aftertaste". I accept that normally with fantasy/sci-fi/superhero stuff there's supposed to be a lot of suspension of disbelief, but even within the fantastical universe on screen, there should be some consistency. Almost nothing makes sense in this film. The most glaring flaws for me were how DUMB the three main male characters are.

Batman is even less of a "detective" than the Nolan version who relied a lot on Lucius Fox's tech. He's not that smart or stealthy at all (Mercy catches him in the server room, Diana steals his drive from right under him).

Superman flies right into Doomsday head-on with the Kryptonite spear -- instead of say, throwing it at him / getting one of the others to throw it/ attacking him from the back or side so he doesn't see it coming/ spearing him in the head to end it quickly (why not? too violent?). No strategy at all. I can accept that Snyder wanted to have Superman sacrifice himself stopping the monster, but it was actually done better in the comics -- earth shattering fisticuffs -- because there was no other option. With the Kryptonite spear, Supes had a few options, and he picked the dumbest, most self-exposing one.

Lex Luthor - criminal genius - what exactly does he want? If everything goes according to his brilliant plan, Batman (or Doomsday) would have killed Superman and then there is still the teeny little problem of the invincible Doomsday monster --- now with no Superman to stop him. In fact, the very first thing that Doomsday does when he gains consciousness is try to kill Lex with a fist smash (how lucky that Superman was there). How was Lex going to stop / control Doomsday after he killed Superman? What a dumb plan.

I'm really disappointed with the direction that WB/DC is going with their movie universe. Like others I thought Batman vs Superman was too ambitious of an idea to try to quickly build a universe to catch up to Marvel -- but I was optimistic that there was a way to do it right. Snyder is not the right person to headline this though. He doesn't have a firm grasp on these characters and their motivations, and he's terrible at plotting things out for his "original" (used that term loosely) stories. But as noted, I don't think WB cares. Execs are milking this genre and just pumping out these movies for the sake of pumping them out. They get a big opening weekend because of the buzz, and probably sell a lot of merch, but people will get tired of paying to see crap. It won't be long until this strategy isn't profitable at all anymore.

one more to the group

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Okay my mind is blown. Someone mentioned the "Robin costume" having shorts and posted this pic in one of the HT threads.

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I had literally watched every trailer and the full film twice without knowing that was supposed to be Robin! I thought it was just the remains of the Batsuit he wore during his final fight with Joker. And that Joker probably set some trap, Batman woke up with his sidekick dead in front of him and that graffiti spray painted on his own chest. Something like that. Now I'm seeing the shorts, tiny little mask, and when I zoom in I finally notice the "R" symbol on the side of the chest. I honestly have no idea how long it would have taken me to figure that out had someone not spelled it out.
 
It looks just like Bruce's suit in the closet minus a few pieces! How was I supposed to know! :lecture :tap

My friend thought the same thing. I had to break down 'cranky Batman' to him, with Robin being dead and all. 'How do you know?' 'Well...the Dead Robin shrine for starters...' He totally shrugged it off as another Batsuit.
 
Short sleeves, shorts, and "domino" mask make it pretty obvious IMO.

Yeah, the thing with Superman carrying that spear was another moment during the film where I was a bit baffled. First, Lois just needed help because part of the building fell on top of her. Once she recovered, presumably should could have swam back down and grabbed it, no biggie. But Supes went down there himself instead. Then, Superman could have grabbed Batman's bat rope or a chain and had Lois tie it around the spear, then he could have flew over dragging it beneath him. Or, he could have just chucked it across town so Wonder Woman or Bats could grab it. Or, he could have had Lois drive the spear over. Or, he could have tried to fashion a case (out of concrete or steel lying around?) that could have protected him from direct exposure. I know Doomsday was a threat, but if it's waiting another 5 minutes versus guaranteeing he will be extremely weakened/possibly die. . .

Robin's staff looks pretty stabby for the non-lethal good 'ol days.
Never noticed that :lol Appropriate.

As for the earlier discussion re: AOU vs. Batman V Superman, I think there are a few major, structural differences:

1) tone, which no doubt affects critical opinion

2) AOU is really a clearer, more logically developed story, just very overdone with too many subplots that weren't allowed to develop well. The reason I could understand Khev liking both is that they both have this jumbled and somewhat complicated quality. There is something to be said for needing to keep coming back to a movie to understand what all was going on. But BVS had other deficiencies that undercut this to my eyes, and that of many others. Not that AOU was perfect in terms of outlining character motivations and behaviors (Tony Stark did some weird, uncharacteristic things in particular).

3) the ending--AOU was bittersweet, but left on an optimistic note. BVS was more on the bitter side obviously.
 
So wait just a minute, this Superman is going to get even more grumpy after Lois dies. :slap.

:lol

I kid I kid, I really don't care just give me an entertaining movie, not a bore fest.

I'm enjoying reading the fast moving debate though, khev-eonidas is actually doing an outstanding job up against the invading hoard all on his own, he doesn't even need his 300. :lol
 
I think the floating rocks would qualify as "optimistic."

Not to mention the heartbeat.

Saw it last night and I really enjoyed it. I'm not crazy about adding Doomsday to everything else that was going on but I thought it was good. There were so many little quips and Easter eggs for comic fans. I'm curious to see how they handle the Clark Kent/Superman dynamic when he comes back since Lex knows. Perhaps Clark Kent will be no more.
 
So wait just a minute, this Superman is going to get even more grumpy after Lois dies. :slap.

"This new Superman is even grumpier than the old one!" :lol

I'm enjoying reading the fast moving debate though, khev-eonidas is actually doing an outstanding job up against the invading hoard all on his own, he doesn't even need his 300. :lol

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:rock :D
 
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