Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[GasparZizou]

Would WW be considered B list, next step up from IM?

In comics? Nope, she's straight up A-lister.

 

[YoNoSe]

Khev like any parent is free to raise his kid as he seems fit and lecturing him on how to do it is as pointless as it is ridiculous.

Please give that a rest.

Srsly.

Like Kara I lean towards the less taboo-forming (IMO) way of doing it but FFS it's cool that people are just honestly posting here. The desperate trolling is so transparent even good CGI couldn't hide it's nips.

 

[Khev]

Khev like any parent is free to raise his kid as he seems fit and lecturing him on how to do it is as pointless as it is ridiculous.

Please give that a rest.

Yeah, not sure why "Gully Foyle" thinks I give two ****s about what he or she or it thinks about my parenting. We all have our convictions but as anyone who actually has kids knows so much depends on the individual child anyway. Some kids can handle certain levels of violence, others get nightmares, some situations hit too close to home based on the environment they live in, etc. I'm not about to scoff at anyone who does or doesn't take their kids to a film like BvS. I do think that a full R might have gained them more adult audience members than lost tickets from underaged kids, however.

Regarding *** and violence in general, sure a murder is worse than looking at naked bodies but how many lives are ruined by people committing cartoon acts of violence? Versus jobs and marriages that end due to someone having an addiction to ****? For whatever reason we collectively struggle with *** more than we do violence and it's hardly Puritan to simply be aware of that fact.

Is the tub scene in BvS some mind scarring horror of horrors? Hell no. But I certainly understand why some people like myself wouldn't be thrilled with it just as I understand others would probably think something that "tame" (relatively speaking) would be no big deal.

 

[jye4ever]

A, really!?

When I think of Batman I think of Year One, Killing Joke, Long Halloween, Death in the Family, Knightfall, Hush, TDKR.

When I think of WW I think of Linda Carter memes and now finally BvS.

Who are her solo villains.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

2006 Avengers film

2012 Avengers live action film. Iron Man got one hell of a promotion, thanks to the films

 

[YoNoSe]

I can't honestly imagine these films going on long enough to outgrow RDJ. I could see them assigning the suit to someone else. I doubt they'd ever re-cast as long as they could continue to hammer out the contracts.

 

[Khev]

When I think of WW I think of Linda Carter memes and now finally BvS.

I'd only add her Super Friends invisible jet to that list. Did she really NEVER have a single live-action portrayal between Lynda Carter and Gadot? Just that one failed TV pilot a couple years ago and that's it? Damn. What a drought for such an "iconic" character.

 

[Adolfo]

BvS was awesome...liked it no matter who says what...music was very memorable too compared to so many marvel films...and thats all I got to say about that

 

[Victοr]

In comics? Nope, she's straight up A-lister.

In importance? Sure. But sales wise? I wouldn't say so. Everybody knows her, but when it comes to sales, eh, I wouldn't say that she's an "A-Lister". Even Doctor Strange, who hasn't had an ongoing in 20+ years is outselling her at the moment. I mean, look at the numbers:

February 2016:

49 Wonder Woman 49 $3.99 DC 35,398

January 2016:

58 Wonder Woman 48 $3.99 DC 32,687

Even during Azzarello's critically acclaimed run she was struggling:

October 2013:

77 Wonder Woman 24 $2.99 DC 34,308

They're not bad numbers per se, but when Doc Strange is hitting 48k and WW hits 36k, there's a "problem". In general, I think people are overestimating these characters. Yes, they're icons, yes they're well known, but that was always only in the US. My grandma knew Batman, Superman and Spider-Man, and that's it. Same for most people around here. Now that CBMs have exploded and comics have become a worldwide phenomenon, the A-Listers change constantly. Who knew Deadpool would be in the Top 10 every month? Truth be told, everybody here knows Deadpool, but Wonder Woman? Not so much. Times have changed is all I'm saying.

 

[jye4ever]

I'd only add her Super Friends invisible jet to that list. Did she really NEVER have a single live-action portrayal between Lynda Carter and Gadot? Just that one failed TV pilot a couple years ago and that's it? Damn. What a drought for such an "iconic" character.

Yup, that jet as well.

BvS was awesome...liked it no matter who says what...music was very memorable too compared to so many marvel films...and thats all I got to say about that

I can't believe we are seeing eye to green eye.

 

[GasparZizou]

In importance? Sure. But sales wise? I wouldn't say so. Everybody knows her, but when it comes to sales, eh, I wouldn't say that she's an "A-Lister". Even Doctor Strange, who hasn't had an ongoing in 20+ years is outselling her at the moment. I mean, look at the numbers:

February 2016:

49 Wonder Woman 49 $3.99 DC 35,398

January 2016:

58 Wonder Woman 48 $3.99 DC 32,687

Even during Azzarello's critically acclaimed run she was struggling:

October 2013:

77 Wonder Woman 24 $2.99 DC 34,308

They're not bad numbers per se, but when Doc Strange is hitting 48k and WW hits 36k, there's a "problem". In general, I think people are overestimating these characters. Yes, they're icons, yes they're well known, but that was always only in the US. My grandma knew Batman, Superman and Spider-Man, and that's it. Same for most people around here. Now that CBMs have exploded and comics have become a worldwide phenomenon, the A-Listers change constantly. Who knew Deadpool would be in the Top 10 every month? Truth be told, everybody here knows Deadpool, but Wonder Woman? Not so much. Times have changed is all I'm saying.

BUT, you know Marvel is outselling DC in every way Marvel has been getting constant boosts from the movies and I don't think BvS will boost DC comic sales too much if at all.

Those numbers may look bad among the general numbers but she is still right behind Batman and Superman, she's even outselling some Supes tittles isn't she? Definitely an A-lister.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Isn't Robin an A Lister too? Most people see him as just a sidekick, but he is just as iconic as Batman and he's the most famous sidekick ever. I have no idea if his comics sell well though.

 

[jnmx2000]

I saw this yesterday. It was ok. I liked

Batman
the first 10 minutes
the last 30 minutes

It doesn't look like people are using spoiler tags anymore so I'll preface this with saying there are spoilers in this.


I pretty much couldn't care for the rest of the film. I found the other 1 hour and 50 minutes to be boring for the most part. Africa served no purpose, I know it's supposed to connect louis to Lex and I'm sure the intention was that Lex was arrested because Louis found out he was behind the attack in Africa, but considering he was behind the destruction with Doomsday I connect Doomsday to Lex being arrested, not the bullet. I don't mind the Africa scene itself if it ended with Lex staging it to find out that Superman was Clark but the rest of it didn't really go anywhere expect for Louis putting it together that Lex figure out Supermans identity, which in turn we didn't need all that time spent on it, it could of just been Lex in a room watching a monitor going "and Clark Kent saves the day" along with him watching the footage of the other Metahumans and THEN we see Batman looking at the files when he cracks Lex's system. I didn't care for any of the nightmare scenes, they didn't do anything for me, especially the way they were integrated, they came in very much out of left field. I liked the BvS scene but it wasn't as great as I thought it would be. Doomsday looked strange, I really disliked his look, why was he 20 feet tall? That completely took me out of the action at first and I had a hard time taking the fight seriously when the hero's are fighting a giant. Maybe Doomsday recently had some kind of make over but I remember him being just a little bigger than Superman, not being able to hold Superman like a toy in his hand.


The things I did like

I did really like the intro, Bruce in the city as it's being torn down was great. The end of the film starting with the BvS scene had some great moments, I've never cared about Wonder Women but her entrance gave me ****ing goosebumps. If it's anyone that went through an arc in this film it was her and I'm surprised at how well she was used considering her screen time was small, but I felt she had the most development of the 3 big characters in the film, Superman was Superman, Batman had his change of heart but it was so quick it was kind of distracting for me. Wonder Women looked like she actually struggled to not want to help and she started off kind of selfish only looking out for herself. Which is why her introduction was awesome, it resonated when she did show up.

I'm indifferent to the end after the Doomsday fight, I didn't care enough by the end to actual feel anything towards what had happened, I really didn't feel like it was earned as I never felt like Superman was accepted by the world, and if he was I never caught it. The Doomsday fight would have been a great opportunity for Superman to save a public city from Doomsday, keep him out of the city and finish the fight on the outskirts of town and then you have earned something when you have a city full of people that just watched you put everything on the line to save them, but I never felt anything like that happened so it really didn't have any impact on me.

Maybe I'm just picky but there are simple things I feel like could have been done to really bring home some of the themes and elements of these characters

 

[Victοr]

BUT, you know Marvel is outselling DC in every way Marvel has been getting constant boosts from the movies and I don't think BvS will boost DC comic sales too much if at all.

Those numbers may look bad among the general numbers but she is still right behind Batman and Superman, she's even outselling some Supes tittles isn't she? Definitely an A-lister.

Superman outsold her in February:

44 Superman 49 $3.99 DC 36,318
45 Batman and Robin Eternal 20 $2.99 DC 36,127
46 Batman and Robin Eternal 21 $2.99 DC 35,770
47 Totally Awesome Hulk 3 $3.99 Marvel 35,709
48 A-Force 2 $3.99 Marvel 35,571
49 Wonder Woman 49 $3.99 DC 35,398
50 Green Lantern 49 $3.99 DC 35,237
51 Uncanny Inhumans 5 $3.99 Marvel 35,145
52 Flash 48 $3.99 DC 34,903
53 Flash 49 $3.99 DC 34,407
54 Batman Superman 29 $3.99 DC 33,662
55 Batman Arkham Knight Batgirl and Harley Quinn 1 $3.99 DC 33,061
56 Superman Wonder Woman 26 $3.99 DC 32,108
57 Action Comics 49 $3.99 DC 31,496

As for the boost, I don't know why it matters. A boost is a boost. A character with a raised profile is a character with a raised profile, no mater the circumstances. Marvel manages to make B and C listers sell. Doctor Strange hasn't been in any movies and the prmotion has barely started. Fact is, these characters are selling better than Diana. And currently, many have changed Thor is Jane Foster (#19 for February) and the Hulk is Amadeus Cho.

Maybe in the old days she was a straight-up A-Lister, but these lists change, they aren't constant. And again, she was an A-Lister only in the US, UK and coutries with immediate exposure to comics and TV Shows. The rest of the world knew Batman, Superman, maybe Captain America, and later Spider-Man. These are the only true A-Listers. The fact that Deadpool, a 90s product, made 850 Million (being the most profitable X movie as of now), is always in the Top 10 and got a movie and video game well before WW, proves that lists have changed. As these characters are introduced in more countries and places, the rankings shift and evolve.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

I saw this yesterday. It was ok. I liked

Batman
the first 10 minutes
the last 30 minutes

It doesn't look like people are using spoiler tags anymore so I'll preface this with saying there are spoilers in this.


I pretty much couldn't care for the rest of the film. I found the other 1 hour and 50 minutes to be boring for the most part. Africa served no purpose, I know it's supposed to connect louis to Lex and I'm sure the intention was that Lex was arrested because Louis found out he was behind the attack in Africa, but considering he was behind the destruction with Doomsday I connect Doomsday to Lex being arrested, not the bullet. I don't mind the Africa scene itself if it ended with Lex staging it to find out that Superman was Clark but the rest of it didn't really go anywhere expect for Louis putting it together that Lex figure out Supermans identity, which in turn we didn't need all that time spent on it, it could of just been Lex in a room watching a monitor going "and Clark Kent saves the day" along with him watching the footage of the other Metahumans and THEN we see Batman looking at the files when he cracks Lex's system. I didn't care for any of the nightmare scenes, they didn't do anything for me, especially the way they were integrated, they came in very much out of left field. I liked the BvS scene but it wasn't as great as I thought it would be. Doomsday looked strange, I really disliked his look, why was he 20 feet tall? That completely took me out of the action at first and I had a hard time taking the fight seriously when the hero's are fighting a giant. Maybe Doomsday recently had some kind of make over but I remember him being just a little bigger than Superman, not being able to hold Superman like a toy in his hand.


The things I did like

I did really like the intro, Bruce in the city as it's being torn down was great. The end of the film starting with the BvS scene had some great moments, I've never cared about Wonder Women but her entrance gave me ****ing goosebumps. If it's anyone that went through an arc in this film it was her and I'm surprised at how well she was used considering her screen time was small, but I felt she had the most development of the 3 big characters in the film, Superman was Superman, Batman had his change of heart but it was so quick it was kind of distracting for me. Wonder Women looked like she actually struggled to not want to help and she started off kind of selfish only looking out for herself. Which is why her introduction was awesome, it resonated when she did show up.

I'm indifferent to the end after the Doomsday fight, I didn't care enough by the end to actual feel anything towards what had happened, I really didn't feel like it was earned as I never felt like Superman was accepted by the world, and if he was I never caught it. The Doomsday fight would have been a great opportunity for Superman to save a public city from Doomsday, keep him out of the city and finish the fight on the outskirts of town and then you have earned something when you have a city full of people that just watched you put everything on the line to save them, but I never felt anything like that happened so it really didn't have any impact on me.

Maybe I'm just picky but there are simple things I feel like could have been done to really bring home some of the themes and elements of these characters

Pretty much my sentiments too.

 

[Khev]

I thought it was really cool how WW got Bruce's email right before everything went to pot. It established that when Doomsday broke loose and Batman was engaging him that if she really wanted to keep her identity a secret all she had to do was NOT help the one guy that she KNEW knew her secret. But if she wasn't really connected to humanity before the events of the film you have to assume that her interactions with Bruce gave mortals an identity again and she couldn't couldn't just stand by and let that be extinguished, even if it meant not only letting someone who knew who she was live but also let the entire world see her true self.

 

[loki2371]

Yeah, not sure why "Gully Foyle" thinks I give two ****s about what he or she or it thinks about my parenting. We all have our convictions but as anyone who actually has kids knows so much depends on the individual child anyway. Some kids can handle certain levels of violence, others get nightmares, some situations hit too close to home based on the environment they live in, etc. I'm not about to scoff at anyone who does or doesn't take their kids to a film like BvS. I do think that a full R might have gained them more adult audience members than lost tickets from underaged kids, however.

Regarding *** and violence in general, sure a murder is worse than looking at naked bodies but how many lives are ruined by people committing cartoon acts of violence? Versus jobs and marriages that end due to someone having an addiction to ****? For whatever reason we collectively struggle with *** more than we do violence and it's hardly Puritan to simply be aware of that fact.

Is the tub scene in BvS some mind scarring horror of horrors? Hell no. But I certainly understand why some people like myself wouldn't be thrilled with it just as I understand others would probably think something that "tame" (relatively speaking) would be no big deal.

..... I have 10 year old twins (boy & girl) which have seen all of the Marvel Cinematic Movies, all the Raimi Spider-Man movies (which they liked), the crappy ASM movies (which they didn't, good taste), and both the FF movies (not the new crap which I refuse to ever see). The only DC movie I felt comfortable with them watching was Green Lantern. I wanted to watch MOS again with them, and I would've had I felt they were able to see this (BvS). MOS was a little violent, but the scene that got me was when Lois had to make the comment in the Arctic about "putting their @icks away"... Really, absolutely no need for that. They can watch the original Superman movies, just never got around to them, and the only Batman movies I'd be comfortable with was Batman Forever & Batman & Robin. Two movies which I'll be happy to never watch again in my lifetime. They loved the Justice League cartoon, Superman animated, Batman Beyond, Batman Brave & The Bold, and I'm sure some others. It's just sad that they like Batman and out of 8 movies, I'm only comfortable with them seeing 2..

 

[GasparZizou]

Superman outsold her in February:

As for the boost, I don't know why it matters. A boost is a boost. A character with a raised profile is a character with a raised profile, no mater the circumstances. Marvel manages to make B and C listers sell. Doctor Strange hasn't been in any movies and the prmotion has barely started. Fact is, these characters are selling better than Diana. And currently, many have changed Thor is Jane Foster (#19 for February) and the Hulk is Amadeus Cho.

Maybe in the old days she was a straight-up A-Lister, but these lists change, they aren't constant. And again, she was an A-Lister only in the US, UK and coutries with immediate exposure to comics and TV Shows. The rest of the world knew Batman, Superman, maybe Captain America, and later Spider-Man. These are the only true A-Listers. The fact that Deadpool, a 90s product, made 850 Million (being the most profitable X movie as of now), is always in the Top 10 and got a movie and video game well before WW, proves that lists have changed. As these characters are introduced in more countries and places, the rankings shift and evolve.

But she outsold action comics which is what I meant, hell, action comics is the best of the Superman series right now. See? Definitely an A-lister, I don't even know how that's questionable.

Also, Marvel consistently caters to you know what demographic which I'm guessing is starting to buy comics, because how the **** do you explain Whor selling that well? it's a **** comic, bottom of the barrel, yet, it's selling pretty well. MCU Hype and high profile of Marvel as a brand has to have something to do with it.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Yup, me too.

As one of those supporters, I agree with everything you just said.

Screw you guys and your reasonability, now I gotta return this high horse I was on.[emoji6]

 

[jye4ever]

So if Superman's mother had been named Bertha he would've been SOL.