Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

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Can we talk openly here now? Think Batman needed another trilogy and Superman another act before this kinda story, but like I said earlier, it's just all the best moments put into one movie.

I think everyone knows who or what Batman and Superman are and to no end will there be comparisons to Civil War.
 
Comic fans, IMO, also know his "death" was not capitalized on and seem shoe horned into the film. If you remember the fight between DD and Supes in the comic. Superman was the "last line of defense", all on his own with all of his comrades either unavailable or fallen by the waist-side. The people of Metropolis could look at Supermans face while it was getting busted up by DD, they could see him bleed, have his bones broken, etc. All the while, still doing his best to save people amid the carnage. THATS what made that event special and made everyone realize what Superman meant to them when he died.

Juxtaposed to the Trinity fighting DD. It seemed like WW could possibly deal a death blow by chopping DD's head off at anytime, much less the 3 of them being able to find some solution better than Supes slowly flying (cavalry style) into Doomsday with something that is killing him as well. In the comic, Superman beat DD to death cause there was literally no option left. In BVS, there were a multitude of options. Thats why it cheapens the event, IMO. But hey, opinions.

The scene worked for me. Diana hurt Doomsday but who knows if she could have stopped him before getting killed herself? In the end, to save the world, Supes sacrificed his life. I have no problem with the way the Doomsday fight played out. Sorry, it didn't do it for you.
 
The scene worked for me. Diana hurt Doomsday but who knows if she could have stopped him before getting killed herself? In the end, to save the world, Supes sacrificed his life. I have no problem with the way the Doomsday fight played out. Sorry, it didn't do it for you.

It's cool. Just a missed opportunity to me.
 
Can we talk openly here now? Think Batman needed another trilogy and Superman another actor before this kinda story, but like I said earlier, it's just all the best moments put into one movie.

In a perfect world it would have gone like this:

June 13, 2013 - MAN OF STEEL
June 25, 2015 - MAN OF STEEL 2
March 24, 2016 - THE BATMAN
August 4, 2016 - SUICIDE SQUAD
June 22, 2017 - WONDER WOMAN
November 16, 2017 - BATMAN v SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE

Then

March 15, 2018 - THE FLASH
July 26, 2018 - AQUAMAN
April 4, 2019 - SHAZAM
June 13, 2019 - GREEN LANTERN CORPS.
April 2, 2020 - CYBORG
June 18, 2020 - JUSTICE LEAGUE
 
The scene worked for me. Diana hurt Doomsday but who knows if she could have stopped him before getting killed herself? In the end, to save the world, Supes sacrificed his life. I have no problem with the way the Doomsday fight played out. Sorry, it didn't do it for you.

Superman sacrificed his life because the writers needed to add his death so that Batman could start justice League without superman because superman is so powerful it would not make sense for Superman to not just get everyone together really quickly. Snyder wants the gathering of the heroes to be slower and for batman to take longer. to make it an adventure to gather all the other Justice League members.

Also they added his sacrifice to go with the same "Jesus the Savior" thing they started since Man of Steel with all the jesus nods in both MOS and this movie, since he is our savior he had to die for our sins..... he had to sacrifice himself and pay that ultimate price for the salvation of humanity.......

AND they added that death to shock audiences and to shock non comic goers, a twist ending, a big surprise.

none of that makes it good writing or makes it coherent. if Wonder Woman could cut off his arm, she could CUT OFF HIS HEAD........what's the difference? she got closed enough to cut off his arm, she could have easily stab him in the chest with the sword... or stab his head...

Why not CHOKE him with her lasso.... she was able to get her lasso around his body, why not aim for the neck....

I totally understand the reasons they wrote the death of superman but they are not good reasons. I dont know why Snyder thinks that Superman being alive for the gathering of justice league is a bad thing, not sure why they cant just write that Superman asks batman to gather everyone up because superman is just busy wiht something or because he is too weak from the Nuke and all the kryptonite he was exposed to....

I dont know why all the jesus nods were needed either, his sacrifice feels moot since it wasn't truly earned. i dont think people cared that he died, it is not shown but the people that were against him are probably happy he died.
 
Superman sacrificed his life because the writers needed to add his death so that Batman could start justice League without superman because superman is so powerful it would not make sense for Superman to not just get everyone together really quickly. Snyder wants the gathering of the heroes to be slower and for batman to take longer. to make it an adventure to gather all the other Justice League members.

Also they added his sacrifice to go with the same "Jesus the Savior" thing they started since Man of Steel with all the jesus nods in both MOS and this movie, since he is our savior he had to die for our sins..... he had to sacrifice himself and pay that ultimate price for the salvation of humanity.......

AND they added that death to shock audiences and to shock non comic goers, a twist ending, a big surprise.

none of that makes it good writing or makes it coherent. if Wonder Woman could cut off his arm, she could CUT OFF HIS HEAD........what's the difference? she got closed enough to cut off his arm, she could have easily stab him in the chest with the sword... or stab his head...

Why not CHOKE him with her lasso.... she was able to get her lasso around his body, why not aim for the neck....

I totally understand the reasons they wrote the death of superman but they are not good reasons. I dont know why Snyder thinks that Superman being alive for the gathering of justice league is a bad thing, not sure why they cant just write that Superman asks batman to gather everyone up because superman is just busy wiht something or because he is too weak from the Nuke and all the kryptonite he was exposed to....

I dont know why all the jesus nods were needed either, his sacrifice feels moot since it wasn't truly earned. i dont think people cared that he died, it is not shown but the people that were against him are probably happy he died.

I don't think Supes death has anything to do with the formation of the JL. He proved to the world he was willing to sacrifice his life for the people of earth. That makes him a sympathetic figure now instead of a controversial one. How will that all play out once he's resurrected? Who knows? Just because Diana cut off his hand doesn't mean she could kill Doomsday by herself. Besides, his hand grew back with a spike. Look, I get that this scene doesn't work for you. I really don't want to go point by point with you to tell you why I see things differently. I'm OK with you not liking the scene or movie. I do, warts and all.
 
Lol wolvie fan, my perfect earth would be:
May 7th, 2016: JLA
Oct 6th, 2016: Hawkman
Jan 4th 2017: JLA2
Oct 2nd 2017: Aquaman

Jan 6th, 2018: JSA
Aug 1st, 2018: Aquaman2
May 6th, 2018: Hawkman2

Aug 96th, 2019: Aquaman3
Dec 02th, 2019: Stormwatch
 
Comic fans, IMO, also know his "death" was not capitalized on and seem shoe horned into the film. If you remember the fight between DD and Supes in the comic. Superman was the "last line of defense", all on his own with all of his comrades either unavailable or fallen by the waist-side. The people of Metropolis could look at Supermans face while it was getting busted up by DD, they could see him bleed, have his bones broken, etc. All the while, still doing his best to save people amid the carnage. THATS what made that event special and made everyone realize what Superman meant to them when he died.

Juxtaposed to the Trinity fighting DD. It seemed like WW could possibly deal a death blow by chopping DD's head off at anytime, much less the 3 of them being able to find some solution better than Supes slowly flying (cavalry style) into Doomsday with something that is killing him as well. In the comic, Superman beat DD to death cause there was literally no option left. In BVS, there were a multitude of options. Thats why it cheapens the event, IMO. But hey, opinions.

Don't forget the funeral after :lecture
 
In what way is this "awesome"?

"I feel like he’s right. But I feel like Batman and Superman are transcendent of superhero movies in a way, because they’re Batman and Superman. They’re not just, like, the flavour of the week Ant-Man – not to be mean, but whatever it is. What is the next Blank-Man?"

Is it because he was overconfident and ended up with a movie that was actually worse received by both critics and audiences? Is it "awesome" that he resorted to "fanboy war" mentality? I'm really curious to hear what in that quote is "awesome", as you put it...

That's ok...Spider-Man will show him what's up :lol
 
Don't forget the funeral after :lecture

How could I forget? I would've loved to see an image similar to this.

image.jpeg
 
That's ok...Spider-Man will show him what's up :lol

Nah, Spider-Man is like, "Blank-Man" next to Batman and Superman... Kidding aside, I will agree that yes, Batman and Superman are above and beyond the most famous heroes on the planet. But, Spider-Man is just as, if not more well-known than them at the moment. Based on this graph, Spider-Man far outsells them:

Marvel_vs_DC_Licensing_Chart-full.jpg


And here's the link to the article: Report: SPIDER-MAN - Marvel Dominates BATMAN - DC in Licensing Revenue | Newsarama.com

Plus, the original Hollywood Reporter Article: Which Superhero Earns $1.3 Billion a Year? - Hollywood Reporter

And, as we saw, TASM2 didn't do terribly good, because it was a crap movie. The name of the character doesn't matter, what matters is the quality of the film. Brand Recognition affects the BO, but that also depends on word of mouth. Ant-Man has an 87% Audience Rating, so I guess people liked it. I've seen more peculiar things. Or are we still going with the "brainwashing" theory? Bottom line, is, you shouldn't count your chickens before they hatch...
 
Nah, Spider-Man is like, "Blank-Man" next to Batman and Superman... Kidding aside, I will agree that yes, Batman and Superman are above and beyond the most famous heroes on the planet. But, Spider-Man is just as, if not more well-known than them at the moment. Based on this graph, Spider-Man far outsells them:

Marvel_vs_DC_Licensing_Chart-full.jpg


And here's the link to the article: Report: SPIDER-MAN - Marvel Dominates BATMAN - DC in Licensing Revenue | Newsarama.com

Plus, the original Hollywood Reporter Article: Which Superhero Earns $1.3 Billion a Year? - Hollywood Reporter

And, as we saw, TASM2 didn't do terribly good, because it was a crap movie. The name of the character doesn't matter, what matters is the quality of the film. Brand Recognition affects the BO, but that also depends on word of mouth. Ant-Man has an 87% Audience Rating, so I guess people liked it. I've seen more peculiar things. Or are we still going with the "brainwashing" theory? Bottom line, is, you shouldn't count your chickens before they hatch...

It's funny how people are in disbelief when I tell them that Spiderman is the most profitable Superhero in the world.
 
I dont see how anyone would argue that. Spiderman has been the best selling comic license since Mego dolls came out.
 
It's funny how people are in disbelief when I tell them that Spiderman is the most profitable Superhero in the world.

Well, most go by US statistics, where Batman and Superman are still arguably the top dogs, so maybe that's why.

I dont see how anyone would argue that. Spiderman has been the best selling comic license since Mego dolls came out.

Funny thing is, Spider-Man far outsells them worldwide, which is what I was talking about on the Wonder Woman issue. Times have changed and comicdom has become more mainstream. People from all over the world are now fans and thus, certain "positions" and rankings have changed.
 
Steve Ditko should be the richest comics creator in the world, but for the real life super villainy of Marvel and Stan Lee. A much more interesting topic, IMHO.

But staying on topic... Those of you who hate the Jesus allegories with Supes must really be eagerly anticipating The Resurrection. :lol
 
Yeah, I just listened to it as well. It's not nearly as bad as it seemed when seeing the quotes out of the context of the full conversation earlier.

He still needs to do a better job of choosing his words (which may be impossible, since he's a guy who's brain is constantly firing a million miles an hour), but I think it's pretty clear what he meant in this particular interview, and it's nothing worthy of backlash.

On the topic of superheroes talking in their costumes: Like Remy says, he's pretty much specifically talking about the conversation that Bruce and Clark have early on in the film. This is the "Heat scene", where the two opposing guys have a bit of a real chat before they clash later on full bore. What he's saying is that that scene (and what they were trying to say there) would not have worked as well if they were in full character and costumes. And, personally, I agree. And I think you'll continue to see the heroes having "normal people" conversations while in their civies... and then when they're in costume it's all "business". Makes sense to me. Mileage, of course, will vary,

On the topic of secret identities: What he's basically saying there is he finds it silly that people who are around (or even just know) the superheroes both as their alter egos and as their costumed heroes couldn't easily figure out who they are. Especially someone as intelligent and with as many resources as Lex Luthor. Or someone with as much street grit as Lois Lane. And he's absolutely right. Of course these characters (in this world that has been created) would figure out that Superman is Clark Kent, and vice versa. So it really needs no explanation on HOW Lex Luthor knows. He just does... because it would be very. very easy for someone like him. What Zack is NOT saying here is that the notion of heroes with secret identities is going way. It's not, and of course someone like Bruce Wayne could not reveal himself as Batman to the world, because as soon as he does the police and FBI are coming to arrest him.

Khev, you can return to DEFCON 5. :lol

:lol

All that sounds much better. No different really than on the commentary for Captain America: The First Avenger when Joe Johnston says that when Cap returned with the 200 POW's that he rescued and Bucky says, "Let's here it for Captain America!" originally Evans gave this big inspiring speech but in the editing room it just didn't "play" very well and so Johnston cut the whole speech and just has him smiling quietly while the men cheer around him instead. It's a great scene as a result and not because Johnston doesn't get superheroes or thinks that talking is stupid.

It seems Zack tried to articulate something similar but just got tripped up in his own words.
 
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