Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

We've seen sequels with the same director as the previous movie do 180's in quality for the worse (Spider-Man 3, etc.), have we ever seen it for the better? The closest I can think of would be the improvement of ROTS over AOTC, though I can't imagine anyone hoping for BvS to be "another ROTS."

I think so (imo). I'm sure you won't agree with some/all of them though.

- Terminator 2: Judgement Day (Cameron, complete shift, better than the first) come at me
- X-Men 2: (Singer, complete shift, better than the first)
- Spider-Man 2 (Raimi, complete shift, better than the first)
- The Dark Knight (Nolan, complete shift, better than the first)


But that's just a shift in style/tone/theme, not a bad movie to a good one. The Terminator, X-Men, Spider-Man and Batman Begins are far from bad. If anything, it's a jump from a great movie, to a better one.

X-Men and Spider-Man are debatable as far as 180s go (they seem pretty similar, T2 too), but I think the Dark Knight has a pretty significant jump and shift. Batman Begins sort of embraced the other worldliness of the character. You had the murky studio built/CGI narrows, the traditional looking superhero suit and more comic booky stuff (demon Bat hallucination). Then The Dark Knight did a 180 and "grounded" it all, almost like the vision of a completely new filmmaker. Batman Returns did the same thing (though, I wouldn't call it an improvement over the first, though some might).



I don't know about the "haters", but the thing I didn't like about MoS was the story, plot and the way the characters were written. I didn't really have a problem with the look of the film (loved the cinematography for the Kansas stuff) or the actors, just the story. So with Terrio taking over and Goyer possibly out, we could have a drastic change, or a 180 if you will, for the better.

 

[Silrian]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I think the major problem will still be themes and tone for man of steel dislikers. They're not exactly gonna ditch the Hope angle I'd say... If anything, I expect Superman to inspire Batman out of cynicism. They said Batman was super depressed as in '**** this ****' and was doing everything with drones from within the batcave. Apparently Nightwing won't even speak to him anymore. Could be rewritten but... considering that first photo, I don't think it is.

There's one disaster scenario for me: if they completely step over the metropolis destruction in BvS film, that will actually lower my opinion of Man of Steel.

But Goyer's explicated the way I interpreted Man of STeel: as a rookie's first day, with his flaws very intentional. If that's how BvS will acknowledge it, and will bring Batman in as essentially the hardest superhero critic ever, then I'm good. Also looking forward to Lex Luthor capitalising on Superman's reckless behaviour.

If all that is indeed acknowledged and part of the whole character arc of Superman, then BvS will actually make me like man of steel even more, if that's possible.

So I admit as a MoS fan this film could still very much go both ways for me as well.

 

[Silrian]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I also honestly don't see much other ways of bringing Batman in except 'Clarke you need to hone your powers'. Or are they really gonna introduce a batman that's genuinely gone bad...?

 

[RIDDICK]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Seems like it's in the norm to whine about critique of a movie that is in development.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Fabio knows his ****.

 

[hunnipot85]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I also honestly don't see much other ways of bringing Batman in except 'Clarke you need to hone your powers'. Or are they really gonna introduce a batman that's genuinely gone bad...?

I'm hoping they bring in Batman to investigate Superman and figure out what's happening in Metropolis. I don't think they would make Batman a bad guy.

 

[Silrian]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

From what was said about Batman's state that is what they're implying though... But I don't know how much Terrio apparently rewrote ****.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I think so (imo). I'm sure you won't agree with some/all of them though.

- Terminator 2: Judgement Day (Cameron, complete shift, better than the first) come at me.

Hmm. That's an interesting point. Give me a minute to think about a proper res

Oops, guess that is that.

The new writer thing is the one part of what we've seen that gives me some optimism. But unless Nolan is calling all the shots, WB/DC has yet to earn the benefit of the doubt with their live action movies.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Also a good point. If anything changes, it usually gets worse.

But I'll be over here, very content with MoS, and hella excited for this.

Only thing that can ruin it for me is if they make Batman a narrow-minded ******* just to amp up his antagonistic role. And I guess I'm in the minority in not liking Miller's TDKR.

I don't dislike Miller's Batman, but his representation of Bruce & Clark's relationship is what I don't like. It's hard to even tell they were ever friends. They seem more like co-workers. I prefer the way Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, and Dwayne McDuffie portrayed them in JL & JLU. And comicwise I don't think anyone does a better job of capturing their friendship better than Jeph Loeb. They respect each other, and it's clear they care. But they are after 2 different things. So I hope they go more that route. Heck even in the new 52, they fight initially, or at least Bats fights, Clark kind of just brushes off everything. But by the end they respect each other, and have bonded. Heck the rest of the league is surprised to find out not only do they know each others real name, but that they hang out. I liked that.

 

[Entropy]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

It thought it was obvious that Wayne will come to Metropolis to with his $$$ to help rebuild after the destruction. Luthor will manipulate Batman against Superman. Goyer was right, this stuff writes itself. lol

Hopefully this plot will actually make sense and not be another MoS, but I fear we're in for an overstuffed, bloated pseudo-prequel.

 

[Silrian]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I don't like the entire story from top to bottom nor any of the incarnations of characters in it. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Silrian]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

It thought it was obvious that Wayne will come to Metropolis to with his $$$ to help rebuild after the destruction. Luthor will manipulate Batman against Superman. Goyer was right, this stuff writes itself. lol

I still hope Lex is the real enemy in the film. Not necessarily in terms of screen time, but in terms of orchestration and pulling the strings.

 

[Entropy]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I'm sure that's what's they'll try to feed us. Whether it will make any actual sense or not is the question.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I don't like the entire story from top to bottom nor any of the incarnations of characters in it. I'll leave it at that.

I can see that. It's not a story that appeals to everyone. And even i as someone who overall likes it, have huge problems with lots of it. But my biggest fear is that they are going to take Miller's version of Batman and use it as a template. That would suck.

 

[hunnipot85]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I like the idea of both Batman and Wonder Woman being in Metropolis to investigate who "Superman" is. Maybe even see him as a threat for his destruction and be against him at first.

I rather not have Lex manipulate either one of them, but be the bad guy that they all have to fight together.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I hope they make Batman a cynical, paranoid **** like the "hater" fans that think MoS sucked. He's pissed off and hates the fact that Superman went on a rampage through the city and broke a guy's neck, so he does everything in his power to stop him.

- as Batman, he creates Kryptonite, in order to stop/kill Superman
- as Bruce Wayne, he helps fund the rebuilding of Metropolis and doesn't support Supes
- he sees Kal-El as a super ***** that needs to be put in his place
- he mocks Superman because he's not a real man (literally)



It ends with Batman reluctantly becoming Superman's ally, but in reality, he's set up a massive surveillance counter system to prevent the attacks from further alien super *****es (and keeps some kryptonite handy just in case).

 

[Entropy]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Batman and Superman as buddies who hang out with each other would so terribly laughable.

DC needs to make a really good movie if they want to avoid their nightmare scenario of losing an entire generation of fans to Marvel. If BvS and JL turn out like GL and MoS they're doomed.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I like the idea of both Batman and Wonder Woman being in Metropolis to investigate who "Superman" is. Maybe even see him as a threat for his destruction and be against him at first.

I rather not have Lex manipulate either one of them, but be the bad guy that they all have to fight together.

Yeah, put me in the camp that doesn't want Lex manipulating Bruce or Diana. I would even prefer Bruce to be distrustful, but not an outright ***. Superman did save the planet in MOS. Bruce can be his normal paranoid self, without it coming across as *******. Heck, since they are going with an older more experienced Batman, I would love to see him trying to train Superman. More of a mentor role.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Batman and Superman as buddies who hang out with each other would so terribly laughable.

DC needs to make a really good movie if they want to avoid their nightmare scenario of losing an entire generation of fans to Marvel. If BvS and JL turn out like GL and MoS they're doomed.

How is that terribly laughable. They do so in the comics. They did so before new 52 as well. The only time they ever hated one another was in Miller's story. And it's clear they don't hate each other, but are just trying to prove a point.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Batman has been one who enforces order of the world and believes that entropy is the natural state of existence whereas Superman believes that order is the norm. These two types of people would not like each other.

It ain't the 40s/50s any more,