Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[YankeesFanboy]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

He thinks he's trolling.

lol




So none of these characters represent even the slightest shred of philosophy that may appeal to you or are based on something deeper?

None of these folklores grew out of the toy marketing ploy and became something more?

I'm not trolling. I have very, very low expectations for this movie.

 

[Niltusk]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Dark Knight > Clash of the Titans

**** Zeus

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

So none of these characters represent even the slightest shred of philosophy that may appeal to you or are based on something deeper?

Only what contrivances an author or writer can think up for any given day for the book, script or comic they're trying to peddle.

None of this folklore grew out of toy marketing ploy and became something more.

Nope, because at the end of the day the bottom line will always be "are we selling enough to meet demand" be it comics, movies or toys. That's the bottom line. Is this character/characters a hot commodity that still yields profits. This as close as the character will get to what we're discussing,







Kenner knew what was up!

 

[YankeesFanboy]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

People want to feel like they're more powerful than they really are, they want to feel like they have more control than they actually do. This is why myths, legends, folktales and superheroes exist in the first place.

If you think it's anything more than that - not to mention selling billions in merch - you're fooling yourself.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Only what contrivances an author or writer can think up for any given day for the book, script or comic they're trying to peddle.


Nope, because at the end of the day the bottom line will always be "are we selling enough to meet demand" be it comics, movies or toys. That's the bottom line. Is this character/characters a hot commodity that still yields profits. This as close as the character will get to what we're discussing,







Kenner knew what was up!

Then, whenever a character or a story serves as vessel, avatar, allegory or metaphor so we can examine ourselves or a certain topic, sometimes in ways our context doesn't allows us to, is rendered completely meaningless because said character or story just so happens to be related to a toy commercial?

Disagree.

Of course money is what keeps the world spinning, but that doesn't detract from those who try to use those icons for something more meaningful.

People want to feel like they're more powerful than they really are, they want to feel like they have more control than they actually do. This is why myths, legends, folktales and superheroes exist in the first place.

If you think it's anything more than that - not to mention selling billions in merch - you're fooling yourself.

**** this! Come take me now reptilian gods!

They're power fantasies, they're escapism, yes, so?

 

[YankeesFanboy]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice



Hey Bruce, your parents got killed!

Well, Clark, so did yours.

WAH-WAH.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

There's a difference. Legends like the ones listed above were created to keep people straight with morality tales or to get someone to go plant some apple trees, like my nicca Johnny Appleseeds.

Batman was created to sell funny books and the like even to this day. 75 years may seem like a long time to young people, especially in a society as fast paced as the one we live in today, but in the context of history the exploits of this man,



was pretty recent.


No matter how hard scholars or fan bois try, Batman will never transcend being that cool guy with the neat bat-cowl and cape. That's why the character is successful, not, "Oh he's a symbol for orphans everywhere!" or "he represents our psychological tendencies and the battles within ourselves" or my personal favorite "he stands for hope and something more". Couple of guys set out to make a cool looking superhero to sell, and for the past 75 years, it's caretakers have been changing him to fit people's interests so it continues to sell. That's what that is. Hell, calling him a myth or a legend in the context of history is part of that selling process! That's not a slight at these characters (I love Batman and think he's a pretty cool guy), but that's the facts.

 

[YankeesFanboy]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

There's a difference. Legends like the ones listed above were created to keep people straight with morality tales or to get someone to go plant some apple trees, like my nicca Johnny Appleseeds.

Batman was created to sell funny books and the like even to this day. 75 years may seem like a long time to young people, especially in a society as fast paced as the one we live in today, but in the context of history the exploits of this man,

View attachment 140019

was pretty recent.


No matter how hard scholars or fan bois try, Batman will never transcend being that cool guy with the neat bat-cowl and cape. That's why the character is successful, not, "Oh he's a symbol for orphans everywhere!" or "he represents our psychological tendencies and the battles within ourselves" or my personal favorite "he stands for hope and something more". Couple of guys set out to make a cool looking superhero to sell, and for the past 75 years, it's caretakers have been changing him to fit people's interests so it continues to sell. That's what that is. Hell, calling him a myth or a legend in the context of history is part of that selling process! That's not a slight at these characters (I love Batman and think he's a pretty cool guy), but that's the facts.

You're either the most cynical bastid here and you're a fearless teller of truths.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

No matter how hard scholars or fan bois try, Batman will never transcend being that cool guy with the neat bat-cowl and cape. That's why the character is successful, not, "Oh he's a symbol for orphans everywhere!" or "he represents our psychological tendencies and the battles within ourselves" or my personal favorite "he's stands for hope and something more". Couple of guys set out to make a cool looking superhero to sell, and for the past 75 years, it's caretakers have been changing him to fit people's interests so it continues to sell. That's what that is. Hell, calling him a myth or a legend in the context of history is part of that selling process! That's not a slight at these characters (I love Batman and think he's a pretty cool guy), but that's the facts.

The Joker for instance, is a constant representation of the hypocrisy and other ugly faces of our society, that's pretty transcending to me, and Batman does represent a lot of the moral norms on which our idealized society or coexistence principles are based on, the same for Superman, they may not have been when they were created, but those traits were certainly developed in them.

But they are mythical characters, or legendary for that matter, at least no less than the any of the ancient mythologies.

I'm not denying the business they represent, those are the facts, but if you tell me that's where it stops, nope.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I took a Batman and comic course in college bro. (srs)

I'm telling you, it's all the manifestation of a comic publication company. They want people to over analyze something like the meaning of the "Death of Superman" and hire groups of think tank writers to do just that. Why? $$$. It's especially true around movie season. How many "psychology of Batman and Superman" or "BvS: modern David and Goliath" programs do you think we'll see on the history channel to promote this *****? I say a lot. Joker changes with the times because if he was just that same 1950s prankster that wanted to give Batman boners, he wouldn't sell! Who would want to see that crap, kids ain't those meat loaf eatin', milk swiggin' dandies any more. Some shrewd businessmen, er, sorry, artists think that society wants grim dark, modern allegorical characters, so they change em' up so people still buy the damn things. Johnny Appleseed always wore his pot for a hat, even if kids didn't think it was cool. Superman? They took his damn underwear away because some analyst **** thought it'd be bad for sales!


I could write a thesis about the historical significance of Coca-Cola and the impact it's had on society and pop culture, but at the end of the day, it's just a ****ing soda. Consumerization baby!

 

[YankeesFanboy]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I can almost feel my brain getting smarter!

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I took a Batman and comic course in college bro. (srs)

I'm telling you, it's all the manifestation of a comic publication company. They want people to over analyze something like the meaning of the "Death of Superman" and hire groups of think tank writers to do just that. Why? $$$. It's especially true around movie season. How many "psychology of Batman and Superman" or "BvS: modern David and Goliath" programs do you think we'll see on the history channel to promote this *****? I say a lot. Joker changes with the times because if he was just that same 1950s prankster that wanted to give Batman boners, he wouldn't sell! Who would want to see that crap, kids ain't those meat loaf eatin', milk swiggin' dandies any more. Some shrewd businessmen, er, sorry, artists think that society wants grim dark, modern allegorical characters, so they change em' up so people still buy the damn things. Johnny Appleseed always wore his pot for a hat, even if kids didn't think it was cool. Superman? They took his damn underwear away because some analyst **** thought it'd be bad for sales!


I could write a thesis about the historical significance of Coca-Cola and the impact it's had on society and pop culture, but at the end of the day, it's just a ****ing soda. Consumerization baby!

Cool, what did you study? Or was it like one of those optional courses?

But that's the point, you can have the Joker giving boners to Batman or killing his kid, it's all the same representation of the ugly side of society, yeah, they change the envelope of the candy or the chocolate coating to go with the times but that does not detract from the people who actually want to charge these characters with meaning, and that's what I stay with, sure it's nice to play with my figures, but if these drawings don't speak to me, if they have nothing interesting to say about me or my context, then I wouldn't care about them.

Like I said, I'm not denying the money angle, but I won't accept there's nothing more to them when I know there is.

If someone is moved to the point of questioning or pondering about their life, government, relationships or whatever, by looking at a can of diet coke, great for them.

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I think that the whole issue here is that motivation does not denote interpretation. Just because the whole reason behind Batman is a Jewish kid wanting to make money in 1939, that doesn't mean that his motivation is all society will glean from the creation. Hell, who's to say that some farmer in Ancient Greece didn't light his field on fire during a thunderstorm and tell the superstitious locals that "Zeus did it" in an attempt to extort money from them?

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Fabs is the truth teller we deserve, but not the one we need right now.

 

[YankeesFanboy]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Don't worry, Fabs. One day, the rest of Gotham will understand.

 

[Niltusk]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I think that the whole issue here is that motivation does not denote interpretation. Just because the whole reason behind Batman is a Jewish kid wanting to make money in 1939, that doesn't mean that his motivation is all society will glean from the creation. Hell, who's to say that some farmer in Ancient Greece didn't light his field on fire during a thunderstorm and tell the superstitious locals that "Zeus did it" in an attempt to extort money from them?

Yeah, don't really know what the merchandising has to do with the importance the characters hold to people, I'm sure many myths and legends were started for far worse reasons than to make money.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Don't worry, Fabs. One day, the rest of Gotham will understand.

Hurray for nihilism?

I think that the whole issue here is that motivation does not denote interpretation. Just because the whole reason behind Batman is a Jewish kid wanting to make money in 1939, that doesn't mean that his motivation is all society will glean from the creation.

Precisely.

Superheroes in general, and even more so the likes of Batman and Superman have almost become memes by now, if they aren't already.

Memes have an impact on culture, at the very least, pop culture, and they have an impact on people, who will find significance to them, despite the alleged intentions of their creators.

Otherwise, **** life.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

I think that the whole issue here is that motivation does not denote interpretation. Just because the whole reason behind Batman is a Jewish kid wanting to make money in 1939, that doesn't mean that his motivation is all society will glean from the creation. Hell, who's to say that some farmer in Ancient Greece didn't light his field on fire during a thunderstorm and tell the superstitious locals that "Zeus did it" in an attempt to extort money from them?

Difference is, we don't know how those stories formed.

We know how this one did. As long as there's a wiki for it, it'll never have that mystique that those real legends/mythological characters have.



Also, I never said anything about pop culture. What's there to refute there? Disco had an impact in that regard too!

 

[YankeesFanboy]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Hurray for nihilism?

I choose to embrace it. Though it doesn't much matter.

 

[YankeesFanboy]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Otherwise, **** life.

There's hope for you yet.