Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)
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Uncanny Web-Slinger
Super Freak
Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
I think the saturation won't come from getting bored with the characters, new or familiar but with the formula.
Pretty much every CBM has:
1. Opening action scene
2. Catching up with the characters
3. New Big bad in town
4. some more mid-scale fights
5. Someone dies
6. Big action scene at the end
I saw a comment on youtube that highlighted that pretty much every death of a superhero has been reversed after, for example. Loki in Thor 1 and Thor 2, Jean in X2, Bucky in The First Avenger, Coulson ect...
The Death of a character is the only lasting thing at the end of a film, the loss I supposed to be felt as a sacrifice of sorts to make the people at the ending different from the beginning. But why care when it happens if you know they'll be back to life soon enough and next to nothing changed for the characters in the movie.
And with the way franchises and slates are working we know that characters in the movies coming up will survive as they're due to appear in the sequel or crossover or whatever next, so that takes away any stakes.
Shoulda gone with this.
I think the saturation won't come from getting bored with the characters, new or familiar but with the formula.
Pretty much every CBM has:
1. Opening action scene
2. Catching up with the characters
3. New Big bad in town
4. some more mid-scale fights
5. Someone dies
6. Big action scene at the end
I saw a comment on youtube that highlighted that pretty much every death of a superhero has been reversed after, for example. Loki in Thor 1 and Thor 2, Jean in X2, Bucky in The First Avenger, Coulson ect...
The Death of a character is the only lasting thing at the end of a film, the loss I supposed to be felt as a sacrifice of sorts to make the people at the ending different from the beginning. But why care when it happens if you know they'll be back to life soon enough and next to nothing changed for the characters in the movie.
And with the way franchises and slates are working we know that characters in the movies coming up will survive as they're due to appear in the sequel or crossover or whatever next, so that takes away any stakes.
Shoulda gone with this.
Last edited:
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
You just described Star Wars episode 7 and pretty much every fantasy, Sci-Fi , and action adventure film
Actually, almost every film follows those principles or a similar formula. If the story is good and the characters are likable, it doesn't matter because that's the same formula studios have been using for 70 years.
You just described Star Wars episode 7 and pretty much every fantasy, Sci-Fi , and action adventure film
Actually, almost every film follows those principles or a similar formula. If the story is good and the characters are likable, it doesn't matter because that's the same formula studios have been using for 70 years.
Frank
Super Freak
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
You could be onto something...
Superman's best movie moment was a handshake.
Batman89 had "I'm Batman".
X2 had me at "bamf".
Iron Man had Stark-Jarvis banter.
Avengers had every scene with Hulk in it.
I could go on, but it can be a collection of minor touches (shame on you Singer!) that make a film.
You could be onto something...
Superman's best movie moment was a handshake.
Batman89 had "I'm Batman".
X2 had me at "bamf".
Iron Man had Stark-Jarvis banter.
Avengers had every scene with Hulk in it.
I could go on, but it can be a collection of minor touches (shame on you Singer!) that make a film.
GasparZizou
Super Freak
YankeesFanboy
Super Freak
Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
The Oklahoma Smith trilogy will be the Next Big Thing. It will follow the exploits of Dr. William "Oklahoma" Smith, Jr., or "Okie," a professor of antiquities at a prestigious Northeastern college.
He will fight Islamic extremists in the first film, Russians in the second and the Chinese in the third, using little more than his wits, charm, gumption, his fists, a six-shooter and a boomerang, all while wearing a hipster fedora (he'll make them cool again, all by himself).
He also will bed plenty of students, CIA analysts, government officials throughout Europe and Asia and the daughter of a Saudi prince along the way. He won't once use protection because it's inconvenient and uncomfortable. Besides, what woman wouldn't want to have Oklahoma Smith's baby?
Starring Stephen Amell and directed by Rian Johnson, the first movie will release in May 2023 and go on to gross $500 million domestically and $1.75 billion worldwide. And the masses will rejoice.
Put this.
On top of this.
Wait, what's that sound? It's the sound of money being printed.
The Oklahoma Smith trilogy will be the Next Big Thing. It will follow the exploits of Dr. William "Oklahoma" Smith, Jr., or "Okie," a professor of antiquities at a prestigious Northeastern college.
He will fight Islamic extremists in the first film, Russians in the second and the Chinese in the third, using little more than his wits, charm, gumption, his fists, a six-shooter and a boomerang, all while wearing a hipster fedora (he'll make them cool again, all by himself).
He also will bed plenty of students, CIA analysts, government officials throughout Europe and Asia and the daughter of a Saudi prince along the way. He won't once use protection because it's inconvenient and uncomfortable. Besides, what woman wouldn't want to have Oklahoma Smith's baby?
Starring Stephen Amell and directed by Rian Johnson, the first movie will release in May 2023 and go on to gross $500 million domestically and $1.75 billion worldwide. And the masses will rejoice.
Put this.
On top of this.
Wait, what's that sound? It's the sound of money being printed.
YankeesFanboy
Super Freak
The Revenge of Singer
The Evil of Singer
Singer Created Woman
Singer Must Be Destroyed
The Horror of Singer
Singer and the Wolverine from Hell
VintijDroidGutzz
Super Freak
Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Singer the Queen of Wardrobe.
Singer the Queen of Wardrobe.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Published October 23, 2014 by Devin Faraci
Is DC Bringing The Multiverse To Movies And TV?
Will Warner Bros lean on what makes DC Comics unique - alternate, crossable Earths? Geoff Johns hints that they could.
First, some history:
The Golden Age of superheroes happened in the 1930s and the 1940s, and the earliest superheroes came from the company that would be known as DC. These heroes - Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern and more, many coming together on a team called the Justice Society of America - would remain popular through World War II. But by the end of the 40s the youth audience that bought comics started turning in a big way towards Westerns and crime and horror books, and many of the classic Golden Age heroes found themselves put into the oblivion of cancelation. Only the big three, Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman, soldiered on, but The Flash, Green Lantern, The Atom and Hawkman were among the casualties.
In 1956 DC Comics editorial asked Julius Schwartz to revive The Flash in a one-shot short story in the pages of Showcase. But rather than bring back the original Flash, Schwartz and writers Robert Kanigher and John Broome, penciler Carmine Infantino, and inker Joe Kubert created a totally new character. The old guy, Jay Garrick, wore a pot on his head and a baggy sweatsuit. The new guy, Barry Allen, wore a skin-tight red onesie and an evocative mask. Barry Allen knew who Jay Garrick was... because he had read Garrick's adventures in the comics. When The Flash was a hit DC began reviving all their old Golden Age heroes, reworking them completely for the new era, called the Silver Age.
But all of these heroes stood apart from their predecessors. They lived in a different world. The two Flashes could never meet.. until 1961, when Schwartz worked with legendary Flash writer Gardner Fox on a story called Flash of Two Worlds, where The Flash was able to vibrate at such a rate that he actually entered a parallel world where Jay Garrick is The Flash. Barry Allen learns that he, and all the Silver Age heroes and the Justice League of America, live on Earth-One, while Garrick and the Golden Age heroes live on Earth-Two. Suddenly both versions of all DC characters were viable, and the Justice League and the Justice Society began doing regular crossovers.
Thus was born The Multiverse. This is what makes DC Comics truly unique from Marvel; it's easy to point to DC's pantheon of godlike heroes as a stark contrast to Marvel's feet-of-clay heroes, but the big difference for involved readers was DC's complicated and exciting multiversal continuity. More worlds were soon added to the Multiverse - Earth-Three, where all the heroes are villains and have formed the Crime Syndicate of America, Earth-Four, where the Charlton Comics heroes lives, Earth-Five, where there is no Krypton, Earth-S, where Captain Marvel and the Marvel Family exist - and it eventually became infinite. Marvel had a multiverse as well, but it was never as central to the universe as DC's was.
And the Multiverse became even more defining of a certain era of DC Comics in 1986 when the company decided to destroy it. The comic industry was changing, and rather than just kids picking up random issues when they could the main reader base tended to be older, and it tended to be people who cared about continuity. The writers rarely did in the Silver Age, and so many elements of the histories of the heroes were contradictory, made no sense or were written off as 'an alternate Earth,' which nerds really hate. They like knowing everything counts. And so was born Crisis on Infinite Earths, the industry-defining event miniseries that destroyed every single Earth except for Earth-Prime (that's where we live) and the main DC Comics Earth. All the heroes of the various Earths were either written out of continuity or jammed into this new Earth. Jay Garrick was the first Flash, who fought in WWII and inspired Barry Allen, who in turn inspired the third Flash, Wally West. Batman and Superman no longer fought in World War II, but Wonder Woman did - albeit it was her mom doing it. The Golden Age characters no longer lived in an alternate world but were now the foundational stones of this new history.
DC couldn't leave well enough alone, though, and it kept returning to continuity-cleaning events like an OCD sufferer. Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis and Flashpoint followed, each tinkering with the world, each returning or removing elements of the Multiverse. The latest iteration is The New 52, yet another clean slate reboot of the DC Universe, this time positing a reality where there are only 52 alternate Earths as opposed to an infinite number. That status quo may yet be changing again, as recently all comic creators were told to put an end to their stories in preparation for the next major, universe-spanning crossover.
All of this is to explain why the use of the word 'Multiverse' when talking about DC's movies and TV shows is so important. In an interview with Buzzfeed Geoff Johns, main architect of The New 52 and one of the driving forces behind DC's movie and TV presence, said this about the disparate properties:
We look at it as the multiverse. We have our TV universe and our film universe, but they all co-exist.
In some way this is Johns using Multiverse as a handwave - 'Yeah, none of this stuff connects like Marvel's does, but that's because they're alternate Earths' - but at the same time Johns is such a true-blue DC nerd that I have to believe he's using the word purposefully. If he is, this defines how the DC movies are different from the Marvel movies.
The Marvel movies, like the Marvel comics, all take place in one world. Something like Big Hero 6 is technically a Marvel property, but the company is distancing themselves from it as much as possible. The movies and the TV shows weave together, creating one continuity. There could eventually be an alternate Earth story in there somewhere - an evil Captain Axis emerges! - but it'll never be the main focus. Marvel wants to create a tightly interwoven universe. It has been their plan, and that plan has been met with a lot of happiness from nerds.
DC, meanwhile, has been all over the place. Arrow and The Flash take place in the same world, but the pitched Teen Titans show doesn't. Constantine doesn't. Gotham doesn't, and it doesn't even take place in the same continuity as the upcoming Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice*. And that film will launch a universe that includes a new Flash who isn't The Flash from The Flash (TV). There are other DC TV shows in the planning stages that probably won't be connected to the current shows or the movies. On the surface it's a mess.
But what if Johns is using Multiverse with purpose? What if that is literally the plan, or at least the back-up idea? What if Grant Gustin shows up in The Flash (movie) as a vision of another world? The TV version of The Flash has already introduced some Crisis signifiers - red skies in newspaper articles from the future - so it isn't impossible. Marvel has a plan, like 10 more years of stories and movies planned out, and DC clearly (and honestly, without question) doesn't... but could Johns be positioning the Multiverse as a possibility for their future?
When The Avengers came out the thrill was seeing all these characters come together. That thrill only lasts so long; by the time Justice League comes out it's unclear if the team-up thing will hold the same allure. But what's bigger than a cross-hero team-up? A cross-universe team-up. Imagine Henry Cavill, Brandon Routh, Dean Cain and maybe a CG Christopher Reeve standing next to Ben Affleck and Christian Bale and Michael Keaton and Val Kilmer**? Grant Gustin shaking hands with Ezra Miller? This could be the kind of an event that makes cinematic history in much the same way Marvel has redefined the nature of franchise filmmaking. It's more of a stunt - you could maybe get Bale back for like three days of work for an ungodly sum of money - but it would be huge. It would certainly make the kind of noise Warner Bros hasn't quite been able to make with their superhero movies post-The Dark Knight.
If they do go that way, it might not be for a while. Johns went on to say that a Multiversal crossover isn't quite in the cards yet:
Maybe one day we’ll link a show to a film if it makes sense, but the creative process we’re going through right now is to let the stuff live and breathe and be its own thing and own it.
I do hope it's on their minds. This is what would make the DC movies feel unique, feel like something that isn't just an attempt to catch up to The Avengers. Imagine how the Internet reacts in 2022 when they hear the title Justice League 3: Crisis On Infinite Earths.
* the actual title.
** they'll leave Clooney out
SOURCE: BUZZFEED
Published October 23, 2014 by Devin Faraci
Is DC Bringing The Multiverse To Movies And TV?
Will Warner Bros lean on what makes DC Comics unique - alternate, crossable Earths? Geoff Johns hints that they could.
First, some history:
The Golden Age of superheroes happened in the 1930s and the 1940s, and the earliest superheroes came from the company that would be known as DC. These heroes - Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern and more, many coming together on a team called the Justice Society of America - would remain popular through World War II. But by the end of the 40s the youth audience that bought comics started turning in a big way towards Westerns and crime and horror books, and many of the classic Golden Age heroes found themselves put into the oblivion of cancelation. Only the big three, Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman, soldiered on, but The Flash, Green Lantern, The Atom and Hawkman were among the casualties.
In 1956 DC Comics editorial asked Julius Schwartz to revive The Flash in a one-shot short story in the pages of Showcase. But rather than bring back the original Flash, Schwartz and writers Robert Kanigher and John Broome, penciler Carmine Infantino, and inker Joe Kubert created a totally new character. The old guy, Jay Garrick, wore a pot on his head and a baggy sweatsuit. The new guy, Barry Allen, wore a skin-tight red onesie and an evocative mask. Barry Allen knew who Jay Garrick was... because he had read Garrick's adventures in the comics. When The Flash was a hit DC began reviving all their old Golden Age heroes, reworking them completely for the new era, called the Silver Age.
But all of these heroes stood apart from their predecessors. They lived in a different world. The two Flashes could never meet.. until 1961, when Schwartz worked with legendary Flash writer Gardner Fox on a story called Flash of Two Worlds, where The Flash was able to vibrate at such a rate that he actually entered a parallel world where Jay Garrick is The Flash. Barry Allen learns that he, and all the Silver Age heroes and the Justice League of America, live on Earth-One, while Garrick and the Golden Age heroes live on Earth-Two. Suddenly both versions of all DC characters were viable, and the Justice League and the Justice Society began doing regular crossovers.
Thus was born The Multiverse. This is what makes DC Comics truly unique from Marvel; it's easy to point to DC's pantheon of godlike heroes as a stark contrast to Marvel's feet-of-clay heroes, but the big difference for involved readers was DC's complicated and exciting multiversal continuity. More worlds were soon added to the Multiverse - Earth-Three, where all the heroes are villains and have formed the Crime Syndicate of America, Earth-Four, where the Charlton Comics heroes lives, Earth-Five, where there is no Krypton, Earth-S, where Captain Marvel and the Marvel Family exist - and it eventually became infinite. Marvel had a multiverse as well, but it was never as central to the universe as DC's was.
And the Multiverse became even more defining of a certain era of DC Comics in 1986 when the company decided to destroy it. The comic industry was changing, and rather than just kids picking up random issues when they could the main reader base tended to be older, and it tended to be people who cared about continuity. The writers rarely did in the Silver Age, and so many elements of the histories of the heroes were contradictory, made no sense or were written off as 'an alternate Earth,' which nerds really hate. They like knowing everything counts. And so was born Crisis on Infinite Earths, the industry-defining event miniseries that destroyed every single Earth except for Earth-Prime (that's where we live) and the main DC Comics Earth. All the heroes of the various Earths were either written out of continuity or jammed into this new Earth. Jay Garrick was the first Flash, who fought in WWII and inspired Barry Allen, who in turn inspired the third Flash, Wally West. Batman and Superman no longer fought in World War II, but Wonder Woman did - albeit it was her mom doing it. The Golden Age characters no longer lived in an alternate world but were now the foundational stones of this new history.
DC couldn't leave well enough alone, though, and it kept returning to continuity-cleaning events like an OCD sufferer. Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis and Flashpoint followed, each tinkering with the world, each returning or removing elements of the Multiverse. The latest iteration is The New 52, yet another clean slate reboot of the DC Universe, this time positing a reality where there are only 52 alternate Earths as opposed to an infinite number. That status quo may yet be changing again, as recently all comic creators were told to put an end to their stories in preparation for the next major, universe-spanning crossover.
All of this is to explain why the use of the word 'Multiverse' when talking about DC's movies and TV shows is so important. In an interview with Buzzfeed Geoff Johns, main architect of The New 52 and one of the driving forces behind DC's movie and TV presence, said this about the disparate properties:
We look at it as the multiverse. We have our TV universe and our film universe, but they all co-exist.
In some way this is Johns using Multiverse as a handwave - 'Yeah, none of this stuff connects like Marvel's does, but that's because they're alternate Earths' - but at the same time Johns is such a true-blue DC nerd that I have to believe he's using the word purposefully. If he is, this defines how the DC movies are different from the Marvel movies.
The Marvel movies, like the Marvel comics, all take place in one world. Something like Big Hero 6 is technically a Marvel property, but the company is distancing themselves from it as much as possible. The movies and the TV shows weave together, creating one continuity. There could eventually be an alternate Earth story in there somewhere - an evil Captain Axis emerges! - but it'll never be the main focus. Marvel wants to create a tightly interwoven universe. It has been their plan, and that plan has been met with a lot of happiness from nerds.
DC, meanwhile, has been all over the place. Arrow and The Flash take place in the same world, but the pitched Teen Titans show doesn't. Constantine doesn't. Gotham doesn't, and it doesn't even take place in the same continuity as the upcoming Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice*. And that film will launch a universe that includes a new Flash who isn't The Flash from The Flash (TV). There are other DC TV shows in the planning stages that probably won't be connected to the current shows or the movies. On the surface it's a mess.
But what if Johns is using Multiverse with purpose? What if that is literally the plan, or at least the back-up idea? What if Grant Gustin shows up in The Flash (movie) as a vision of another world? The TV version of The Flash has already introduced some Crisis signifiers - red skies in newspaper articles from the future - so it isn't impossible. Marvel has a plan, like 10 more years of stories and movies planned out, and DC clearly (and honestly, without question) doesn't... but could Johns be positioning the Multiverse as a possibility for their future?
When The Avengers came out the thrill was seeing all these characters come together. That thrill only lasts so long; by the time Justice League comes out it's unclear if the team-up thing will hold the same allure. But what's bigger than a cross-hero team-up? A cross-universe team-up. Imagine Henry Cavill, Brandon Routh, Dean Cain and maybe a CG Christopher Reeve standing next to Ben Affleck and Christian Bale and Michael Keaton and Val Kilmer**? Grant Gustin shaking hands with Ezra Miller? This could be the kind of an event that makes cinematic history in much the same way Marvel has redefined the nature of franchise filmmaking. It's more of a stunt - you could maybe get Bale back for like three days of work for an ungodly sum of money - but it would be huge. It would certainly make the kind of noise Warner Bros hasn't quite been able to make with their superhero movies post-The Dark Knight.
If they do go that way, it might not be for a while. Johns went on to say that a Multiversal crossover isn't quite in the cards yet:
Maybe one day we’ll link a show to a film if it makes sense, but the creative process we’re going through right now is to let the stuff live and breathe and be its own thing and own it.
I do hope it's on their minds. This is what would make the DC movies feel unique, feel like something that isn't just an attempt to catch up to The Avengers. Imagine how the Internet reacts in 2022 when they hear the title Justice League 3: Crisis On Infinite Earths.
* the actual title.
** they'll leave Clooney out
SOURCE: BUZZFEED
VintijDroidGutzz
Super Freak
Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
The whole thing really is like a bowl of spaghetti right now - & they've only got themselves to blame for it. Wanting to push out a slew of content, just to stay relevant - that's a sign of weakness if you ask me. The multiverse thing could be ****ing unreal, but are they willing to put the effort in to see it come to fruition?
Nah.
More Supes & Bats up the wazoo, & some periphery on TV, I bet.
Just imagining what that could be like is mind blowing to say the least.. except the Dean Cain part.
The whole thing really is like a bowl of spaghetti right now - & they've only got themselves to blame for it. Wanting to push out a slew of content, just to stay relevant - that's a sign of weakness if you ask me. The multiverse thing could be ****ing unreal, but are they willing to put the effort in to see it come to fruition?
Nah.
More Supes & Bats up the wazoo, & some periphery on TV, I bet.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Clooney would be left out made me.
Clooney would be left out made me.
Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Sounds like some extremely wishful thinking by that writer/geek. Not gonna happen. Thought this was funny though:
Yeah, right. If this were the case, we wouldn't have the current state of things where all comic action is meaningless and likely to be retconned. Any character can die for about 3 weeks before being revived, or it being revealed that they were whisked away to an alternate dimension the second before death, or whatever. And just about every historical character who "died" has been revived at one point or another.
Sounds like some extremely wishful thinking by that writer/geek. Not gonna happen. Thought this was funny though:
Yeah, right. If this were the case, we wouldn't have the current state of things where all comic action is meaningless and likely to be retconned. Any character can die for about 3 weeks before being revived, or it being revealed that they were whisked away to an alternate dimension the second before death, or whatever. And just about every historical character who "died" has been revived at one point or another.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
VintijDroidGutzz
Super Freak
Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Missed opportunity Jye - you should've painted Chris red, then you'd have your alternate earth team up pic.
Flash leading the way.
Missed opportunity Jye - you should've painted Chris red, then you'd have your alternate earth team up pic.
Flash leading the way.
EVILFACE
Super Freak
Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
They are looking at Batman on his way to wipe them all out.
They are looking at Batman on his way to wipe them all out.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
They're looking into the future circa 2016 thinking "Hurry up, we ain't got all day."
They're looking into the future circa 2016 thinking "Hurry up, we ain't got all day."
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