Captain America: The First Avenger Discussion Thread

[The Mike]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

If there is money to be made Fox or Sony won't give it up. The film would have to bomb harder than Gigli for them to even consider it. As bad as Spider-Man 3 was considered by fans, it had a $258 million budget, a $336,530,303 Domestic Gross and a Worldwide gross of $890,871,626. Far from a flop as far as the accountants are concerned despite the general concensus.

X-Men Origins: Wolverine had a $150 million budget. It had a domestic total of $179,883,157 but a worldwide total of $373,062,864. Twice your budget is usually the consideration for a success in the domestic totals but in the grand aspects even though Origins didn't do that they definitely still made money which makes it viable.

Marvel wants them back. Disney has been looking for contractual loopholes publically since early 2010 but have still found nothing. I wouldn't hold your breath.

 

[krec9]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

If there is money to be made Fox or Sony won't give it up. The film would have to bomb harder than Gigli for them to even consider it. As bad as Spider-Man 3 was considered by fans, it had a $258 million budget, a $336,530,303 Domestic Gross and a Worldwide gross of $890,871,626. Far from a flop as far as the accountants are concerned despite the general concensus.

X-Men Origins: Wolverine had a $150 million budget. It had a domestic total of $179,883,157 but a worldwide total of $373,062,864. Twice your budget is usually the consideration for a success in the domestic totals but in the grand aspects even though Origins didn't do that they definitely still made money which makes it viable.

Marvel wants them back. Disney has been looking for contractual loopholes publically since early 2010 but have still found nothing. I wouldn't hold your breath.

can you blame disney for wanting them back a lot of the the movie's were down right awful

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

I just won't say never. In a few years, who knows what could happen. I realize it's unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

can you blame disney for wanting them back a lot of the the movie's were down right awful

That has absolutely nothing to do with the situation. Disney wants them because it's a license to print money especially around merchandising.

I just won't say never. In a few years, who knows what could happen. I realize it's unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

True but I'm sure whatever pricetag Sony/Columbia or Fox would put on the rights would be so astronomical that it's probably laughable. Rumors are that Disney went to Universal to buy back their rights and remove IOA from their Orlando theme park but that Universal asked for so much that Disney could have built three parks for that cost and scoffed at it. I'm sure similar conversations have occurred here.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

can you blame disney for wanting them back a lot of the the movie's were down right awful

But let's be honest. Only Iron Man I was a solid classic. The Incredible Hulk was pretty good, but fell short at the box office, and critically, Iron Man 2 was pretty meh. Only a few notches above SM3 and XM:O in my book. Unless Captain America and Thor can recapture some of that IM1 magic, Marvel Studios seems just as capable or incapable of delivering a great film as any of those other studios. At the end of they day, it's about the dollar, quality film or not.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

But let's be honest. Only Iron Man I was a solid classic. The Incredible Hulk was pretty good, but fell short at the box office, and critically, Iron Man 2 was pretty meh. Only a few notches above SM3 and XM:O in my book. Unless Captain America and Thor can recapture some of that IM1 magic, Marvel Studios seems just as capable or incapable of delivering a great film as any of those other studios. At the end of they day, it's about the dollar, quality film or not.

Nah, not even close.

 

[Wake]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

Iron man 2 although not great was FAAAAR better than Xmen Origins OR Spiderman3

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

Why not? It was well done, but mostly just a mindless summer action flick. Only Downey, Rockwell, and Rourke keep in from sinking to SM3 or Wolverine's level. There was nothing special and it really didn't need to be made (Aside from plugging future installments.) I recently re-watched the first film, and had forgotten how good it is. It actually has heart (no pun intended.)

Even from the IM2 trailers you could tell it would be non-stop action fluff. There's nothing unique or different about it. They only made it because audiences expected it. I enjoyed it for what it is, as a dumb fun popcorn movie, but it isn't a quality sequel like TDK, Superman II, Spider-man 2, X2, or even Batman Returns. It suffers from the same problems as those lesser sequels: A need to top the previous movie's action, too many villains, not enough story or development, just a string of quirky dialogue scenes to link one action sequence to the next.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

But let's be honest. Only Iron Man I was a solid classic. The Incredible Hulk was pretty good, but fell short at the box office, and critically, Iron Man 2 was pretty meh. Only a few notches above SM3 and XM:O in my book. Unless Captain America and Thor can recapture some of that IM1 magic, Marvel Studios seems just as capable or incapable of delivering a great film as any of those other studios. At the end of they day, it's about the dollar, quality film or not.

I'll take a really bad superhero movie that has all their characters on screen all at once

 

[The Josh]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

I like how they go into Tony having issues in his personal life after becoming Iron Man ala like they did in the comic. That to me gave the movie plenty of life. That to me as you said gave this film heart besides seeing Iron Man, War Machine, and Whip Lash.

Sorry, can't say I think you're right at all. Not even close man. Sorry. Doesn't matter though really. I don't watch it for you and you don't for me. So it won't make you like it better that I do and you don't liking it doesn't make me like it less.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

It's not a bad movie. I still enjoyed it for the reasons you mentioned. It just felt like they crammed too much into one film, and needed to out-do the first. When I rewatch the original, I don't get a sense of any of those flaws, and enjoy it as one of the best superhero movies ever made.

 

[Wake]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

What happened with Iron Man 2, and this is my speculation (i'm a writer/filmmaker with 12+ years of experience in post-production), is what happens a lot of times with these kinds of properties. With the first film I suspect the script went through several rounds of work before it was strong enough to be a tool for gaining financing. Liklihood is that Marvel had a presentable version of the first Iron Man script before they secure their 500 million dollar financing deal. This likely accounts for the overall quality of the STORY in Iron Man. With part 2, the studio probably fast tracked the movie in order to make the most money and capatalize on the success of the first film. The script was not polished enough because it was probably not that far removed from a first draft.

Similar situations happened with the Matrix and its sequels, X-men sequels and the Spiderman franchise.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

Blame Kevin Feige. The original script for Iron Man 2 had no Black Widow, it had Natasha as a nod to the fans but nothing more than that. Even the Nick Fury SHIELD elements were downplayed to him just leading Tony to the films and having nothing else to do with it. Feige directed Favreau to include the SHIELD elements to help set up both The Avengers, Captain America and Thor. He ordered the Natasha character expanded and through edits and revisions of the screenplay it happened. Same thing happened with Avi Arad and Spider-Man 3 who shoehorned everything Venom into that film. Not to mention that the release date was projected before the script was even done and refined completely. Favreau was still in the editing room a week before premiere making changes.

Iron Man 3 already has a release date set so expect more like Iron Man 2 and less like Iron Man 1. I liked Iron Man 2 but will admit it came off a bit disjointed.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

There you go. Thanks guys for clarifying it. It was obvious from the finished product that's what happened.

 

[Wake]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

Blame Kevin Feige. The original script for Iron Man 2 had no Black Widow, it had Natasha as a nod to the fans but nothing more than that. Even the Nick Fury SHIELD elements were downplayed to him just leading Tony to the films and having nothing else to do with it. Feige directed Favreau to include the SHIELD elements to help set up both The Avengers, Captain America and Thor. He ordered the Natasha character expanded and through edits and revisions of the screenplay it happened. Same thing happened with Avi Arad and Spider-Man 3 who shoehorned everything Venom into that film. Not to mention that the release date was projected before the script was even done and refined completely. Favreau was still in the editing room a week before premiere making changes.

Iron Man 3 already has a release date set so expect more like Iron Man 2 and less like Iron Man 1. I liked Iron Man 2 but will admit it came off a bit disjointed.

This is likely true... BUT... with enough TIME between parts 1 and 2 a sufficiently workable script could have been written. Black widow or not.

I hope Avengers takes a page from the Ultimattes.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

I agree a great script could have been written but the time between Iron Man's first inception was from 1990-2007. 17 years is more than enough time to have a script ready and should be golden. Iron Man 2 had less than one full calendar year and with a release date of May 3, 2013 for Iron Man 3 and considering that for a lot of 2011/2012 RDJ will be filming The Avengers, I expect the crunch for that film to be much worse. Where they'll have the same amount of writing time, the filming time will be severely crushed.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

One would hope they are working on script for that right now. Though, I have doubt it with no director.

 

[Kabukiman]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

Never say never.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

 

[Anzik]

Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread

All film genres run in cycles. When the superhero theme runs its course and aren't popular, they'll sell them back.