Captain Marvel - March 8, 2019

[Sassafras]

Now that rushmore mentioned it I would love to do a break down of 80’s action movies to see the Mary Sue %.

I can start with:

Commando: Definately a MS

Ok next I chose Robocop: Definately NOT a MS

Please continue lol

How about:

First Blood
Rambo 2
Rambo 3
Conan
Die Hard
Rocky Series

I'd argue tho that none of these are Mary Sues, and actually that's a point in CM's favor - e.g. u can look at most of those and see serious gym time. E.g. by definition a Mary Sue is "magically good" at stuff including being ripped and good looking without doing anything or any explanation. Die Hard gets a pass 'coz Willis is a greasy mess a lot of the time. Where CM falls down is she sets her hair on fire and it looks like she stepped out of a salon, among other reasons.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.

She has an unusual and dramatic Back Story. The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions, even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting; if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal

E.g. Kevin Feige's wish fulfillment that daringly, a woman will lead the MCU into a cosmic future, and Disney execs will continue to get big Christmas bonuses.

 

[Spartan Rex]

John McClane never has been nor ever will be a mother f%#$’n Mary Sue !!

Dont make come come back into this f@#$’n thread.

 

[jimcap]

I'll add LUV. LUV for the 10 years and Feige's free-wheeling, excessive IMO shoving this character into prominence alongside Cap, IM, Thor in End Game. Srsly this broke me:

View attachment 446597

Tho who knows what real conclusions u can draw from a popcorn bucket. Marvel is full of BS, IMO, re its PR - like putting Cap front and center in promotional materials and he was only on screen 6 minutes in IW. Plus they are being so secretive about End Game - but promo materials and toys hafta go into production way ahead of time.

But I luv kitsch and swag - buckets, coins, toppers. Usually nice little things to have long after a movie and associate w. warm fuzzy feelings. (Plus I actually use the buckets and cups). LOL first world problem (tho guess I'll go to Amazon for End Game stuff - Mexico for some reason seems to have awesome swag like my steel Captain America Civil War thermo cup.)

Anyway I've had enough of Feige tryin' to push the next MCU IMO. And this character - supposedly she was always on the table way back to Ultron:
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2467787/captain-marvel-almost-originally-appeared-back-in-avengers-age-of-ultron

which IMO would've been better, but the character doesn't do anything for me anyway and actress isn't helping.

I agree I think Feige was doing a great in keeping all the SJW BS that was going on at Marvell comics out of the MCU. But he drank the Kool-Aid when he made this statement about CM

"We thought it was the right time to finally introduce Captain Marvel to the world. She is one of the most popular characters and one of the most powerful characters in the comics (Popular!! No Kevin she's not! her comics are always canceled because of low sales. 7 times in the past 6 years) will now be the most powerful character in the Marvel Cinematic Universe".

 

[jye4ever]

Isn't Captain Marvel a Mary Sue because she's a super alien?

I mean, the ultimate Mary Sue is Superman, right? OK, Larry Sue then.

 

[a-dev]

I think it's a fair point about Superman. And when Snyder tried to de-Mary Sue him a significant amount of us hated it, myself included

 

[rushmore223]

Now that rushmore mentioned it I would love to do a break down of 80’s action movies to see the Mary Sue %.

I can start with:

Commando: Definately a MS [emoji38]

Ok next I chose Robocop: Definately NOT a MS

Please continue lol

How about:

First Blood
Rambo 2
Rambo 3
Conan
Die Hard
Rocky Series

Lol

Commando was the first movie that came to mind.

Definitely agree with Predator, he got his butt kicked.

Don't forget chuck Norris, Steven Seagal and JCVD.

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[a-dev]

Lol

Commando was the first movie that came to mind.

Definitely agree with Predator, he got his butt kicked.

Don't forget chuck Norris, Steven Seagal and JCVD.

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I actually haven't seen any of Chuck Norris's stuff. Of the Steven Seagal films I've seen though - yeah, possibly a male mary sue - he'll get hit maybe once per film and you always know that even the main bad guy (or his best henchman if main bad guy is a dweeb) stands no chance against him.

 

[rushmore223]

Somebody mentioned that those guys weren't Mary Sue's because they had training.

Before CM went off-planet, she was in the military, is that training enough?

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[Sassafras]

I agree I think Feige was doing a great in keeping all the SJW BS that was going on at Marvell comics out of the MCU. But he drank the Kool-Aid when he made this statement about CM

"We thought it was the right time to finally introduce Captain Marvel to the world. She is one of the most popular characters and one of the most powerful characters in the comics (Popular!! No Kevin she's not! her comics are always canceled because of low sales. 7 times in the past 6 years) will now be the most powerful character in the Marvel Cinematic Universe".

THIS. I used to think Kevin Feige was an enthusiastic comic fan as well as a savvy businessman - the driving force that made the MCU what is, the figurehead, and it's where DC failed. Not having someone like that to spearhead everything, and even take on management.

By BP tho - when he said this "was the best cast they had ever had etc." - it was getting pretty deep. Now I can't believe the stuff that comes out of Feige. Gotta give him credit tho, he does it with a straight face and he's consistent.

 

[rushmore223]

I agree I think Feige was doing a great in keeping all the SJW BS that was going on at Marvell comics out of the MCU. But he drank the Kool-Aid when he made this statement about CM

"We thought it was the right time to finally introduce Captain Marvel to the world. She is one of the most popular characters and one of the most powerful characters in the comics (Popular!! No Kevin she's not! her comics are always canceled because of low sales. 7 times in the past 6 years) will now be the most powerful character in the Marvel Cinematic Universe".

Were GOTG comics big sellers? The first GOTG movie is my favorite of the Marvel movies, not including IW. For that matter, IW might as well have been GOTG volume 3

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[The Clown Prince of Crime]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.

She has an unusual and dramatic Back Story. The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions, even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting; if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal

She's exotically beautiful - check
unusual hair - check
similarly cool and exotic name. -check
She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas- check
She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing. -check
Unusual and dramatic Back Story. -check
The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions -check

Characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting; if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal - check

He's THE Mary Sue

 

[rushmore223]

She's exotically beautiful - check
unusual hair - check
similarly cool and exotic name. -check
She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas- check
She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing. -check
Unusual and dramatic Back Story. -check
The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions -check

Characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting; if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal - check

He's THE Mary Sue [emoji38]

Hahaha, that's awesome!

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[jimcap]

I know it’s nice to stroll down the 80s memory lane But let’s come back to the present, most will agree that Rey being such a Mary Sue has diminished Star Wars. So, we now know CM is an even bigger Mary Sue. So what effect is that going that have on the MCU? I don’t think it will be good!

 

[Craig Walker]

I mean, the ultimate Mary Sue is Superman, right?

If you had asked me randomly outside this thread “Least favorite Super Hero?” Id have said Superman. Lame and boring. And that’s the reason....Larry Sue. (yawn)

 

[rushmore223]

I know it’s nice to stroll down the 80s memory lane But let’s come back to the present, most will agree that Rey being such a Mary Sue has diminished Star Wars. So, we now know CM is an even bigger Mary Sue. So what effect is that going that have on the MCU? I don’t think it will be good!

But you do understand that the past has bearing on the present, right?

There is a point to all this

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[The Buffinator]

So Grace confirms that CM is " Quite the Mary Sue.".

Yes, she said CM is just like Rey...even more powerful and perfect.

Isn't Captain Marvel a Mary Sue because she's a super alien?

I mean, the ultimate Mary Sue is Superman, right? OK, Larry Sue then.

It's funny how people are suddenly viewing Grace as a reliable source when she says something that aligns with their expectations.

Obviously I haven't seen the movie yet, but doesn't CM's being made into a supreme Kree warrior and her previously having been trained as a fighter pilot actually provide the justification for her having superior abilities? Doesn't that differentiate her from Rey, who seemed to develop Jedi abilities, piloting skills, etc., without any training? I understand the concerns about her being too powerful, but I think we may need to wait until Endgame to judge that properly. I'm not sure anyone she'll be going up against in her own movie (primarily the Skrulls) SHOULD be on her level.

 

[jimcap]

There is a point to all this

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Yes, to evade the current issue.

 

[Khev]

How about Buckaroo Banzai.

He performs brain surgey, test pilots a one-of-a-kind interdimensional jet car and headlines a rock concert...all in the first 10 minutes of the film, lol.

 

[rushmore223]

How about Buckaroo Banzai.

He performs brain surgey, test pilots a one-of-a-kind interdimensional jet car and headlines a rock concert...all in the first 10 minutes of the film, lol.

Lol

...and he doesn't have those Ahhnuld muscles.

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[rushmore223]

Yes, to evade the current issue.

It's not evading, it's right on point.



Let the girls have their turn, I don't feel threatened by this.

As a matter of fact, as a father of 2 daughters, I'm happy they have female versions of what we had, when we were growing up.

Just cause the character might be a overly strong female, doesn't mean you can't enjoy it too.

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