David Ayer's Academy Award winning "Suicide Squad"

[jetpacksam]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I don't care if it's DC or Marvel, there are compelling stories in both universes.
My problem is that DC is a vacuum cleaner. Marvel seemed to be willing to make money and put out a good story.
DC is a cash grab, though as has been pointed out, Marvel is sliding.

 

[Victοr]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

The moment you make it a Marvel vs DC thing, is the moment you lose all credibillity. It's all very subjective when it comes to movies, books, games, whatever, and especially characters. To simply say that "DC has the best characters" is both ignorant and ill-informed. Pick 10 books from each company, and chances are, you'll find differences in all of them. Sure, DC has such classics like Wolfman on TT & Deathstroke, but Marvel also has Moench's Moon Knight and Claremont's X-Men. Meanwhile, DC has the abomination known as Batman: Odyssey, and Marvel has the Fight Club issues of Thunderbolts.

I never liked comparisons, for the simple reason why there's almost always dead-wrong. Thunderbolts, as least during its inception was nothing like Suicide Squad. They were villains trying to pull a con, and in the end, some decided to give the hero thing a shot, out of their own free will. Compare that to SS, which is a black-ops approach to using villains due to their ependable nature. Both use the themes of redemption, but take very different approaches. The age old "Moon Knight is a Batman rip-off" is so idiotic I'm not even going to dignify it with a breakdown. Likewise, Aquaman did come after Namor, yes, but the concept is so ingrained into popular culture, I don't consider it a rip-off. Some concepts are going to be similar, no matter what.

What I'm trying to say is, this is a "fight" of good, or at least mediocre and well made movies versus badly made and disjointed flicks. I'd like to think nodoby has a "horse in this race", and people's opinions are unaffected from studio politics and the like. Folks just like what they like, I don't see the need to bring childish rivalries into this, especially poorly constructed ones.

PS: Info on the muddled production: https://www.comicbookmovie.com/suicide_squad/was-suicide-squad-doomed-from-the-start-shocking-new-details-on-the-a144173

 

[Ropen]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

The moment you make it a Marvel vs DC thing, is the moment you lose all credibillity. It's all very subjective when it comes to movies, books, games, whatever, and especially characters. To simply say that "DC has the best characters" is both ignorant and ill-informed. Pick 10 books from each company, and chances are, you'll find differences in all of them. Sure, DC has such classics like Wolfman on TT & Deathstroke, but Marvel also has Moench's Moon Knight and Claremont's X-Men. Meanwhile, DC has the abomination known as Batman: Odyssey, and Marvel has the Fight Club issues of Thunderbolts.

I never liked comparisons, for the simple reason why there's almost always dead-wrong. Thunderbolts, as least during its inception was nothing like Suicide Squad. They were villains trying to pull a con, and in the end, some decided to give the hero thing a shot, out of their own free will. Compare that to SS, which is a black-ops approach to using villains due to their ependable nature. Both use the themes of redemption, but take very different approaches. The age old "Moon Knight is a Batman rip-off" is so idiotic I'm not even going to dignify it with a breakdown. Likewise, Aquaman did come after Namor, yes, but the concept is so ingrained into popular culture, I don't consider it a rip-off. Some concepts are going to be similar, no matter what.

What I'm trying to say is, this is a "fight" of good, or at least mediocre and well made movies versus badly made and disjointed flicks. I'd like to think nodoby has a "horse in this race", and people's opinions are unaffected from studio politics and the like. Folks just like what they like, I don't see the need to bring childish rivalries into this, especially poorly constructed ones.

PS: Info on the muddled production: https://www.comicbookmovie.com/suicide_squad/was-suicide-squad-doomed-from-the-start-shocking-new-details-on-the-a144173

Yet every reviewer that you see online always THROWS in marvel did this or did that.

You kind of see a pattern anyways, despite the fact we all know there's worst movies out there right now with decent scores, yet this movie comes out and it's under than those movies says a lot about whose setting the scores for them, and it's sad. I go in with a blank mind state seeing these movies because I don't compare this to any other movie, yet people put this with Guardians of the Galaxy or Deapool, there is no standard for movies of this caliber on the comics.

Even marvel is destroying the Xmen because of how popular avengers are and it's pissing me off since I grew attached more to Xmen than any other. I can't complain, it's a good influx of movies, but everyone's spoiled now days that you can see the bubble about to burst in this genre


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[Shawpaw]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

superhero movies are going nowhere. I PROMISE lol

 

[jetpacksam]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

Ok, not sure how to phrase this, I really stopped reading reviews a while ago:

Are the reviewers comparing characterization and using that to make examples or are they using it as a way to differentiate between good and bad comics films?
If they are using the later to point out what DC could do better thats one thing, but if they are using characters to say that one is good and one isn't, then yes, their credibility is shot.

 

[greygoose]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

DC will always be able to reinvent their characters for new generations and older audiences - well Batman/new Jokers/Superman anyway. Can you really see a mass amount of people watching an Ant-Man reboot in ten years time?...Again not a Marvel vs DC, just something to point out as it will be interesting to see how Marvel handles the reboots with new actors etc.

 

[Victοr]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

Yet every reviewer that you see online always THROWS in marvel did this or did that.

"Every reviewer" is an exaggeration. Some do, just to show the the contrast between the two. I've not read any reviews that say "Marvel does it better", only that whereas Marvel does it this way, DC did it that way, and the reviewer ende up liking on or the other. Saying that Suicide Squad is the Avengers through the lens of Deadpool isn't something "offensive", he/she's just using two popular comic book films to give you an idea of this flick's tone.

You kind of see a pattern anyways, despite the fact we all know there's worst movies out there right now with decent scores, yet this movie comes out and it's under than those movies says a lot about whose setting the scores for them, and it's sad. I go in with a blank mind state seeing these movies because I don't compare this to any other movie, yet people put this with Guardians of the Galaxy or Deapool, there is no standard for movies of this caliber on the comics.

I'm sorry, but I'm not really getting what you're saying here. People compared it to the Guardians because it was a relatively obscure team starring people that aren't clear cut heroes. I don't think anybody ever compared the source material, as that's obviously very different between the two. The common complain all reviewers have is that it's disjointed, something I've gathered from all the leaks and the inside info. If a movie is badly made, it's going to get a bad score.

Even marvel is destroying the Xmen because of how popular avengers are and it's pissing me off since I grew attached more to Xmen than any other.

Eh, I don't see the problem. X-Fans were all smug and mighty back in the 90s, when there were like, 20 or so X-Related ongoings, minis, OGNs and the like coming out every month or so. Now, they've been dialed back and allowed other characters to get the spotlight for a while. Carnage has a terrific ongoing that's exactly like the good ol' Tomb of Dracula. Howard the Duck was hilarious and a hidden gem. Hickman's work on the Illuminati will go down as one of the best volumes in all of comicdom. So, yeah, I don't see the problem.

I can't complain, it's a good influx of movies, but everyone's spoiled now days that you can see the bubble about to burst in this genre

Sorry, but people have been saying this for 2 years or so. As long as the CBMs themselves are well made and different enough, people will go see them. 3 Superman and Batman sequels might oversaturate the market, but if you break the mold by giving movies to lesser known IPs, things won't be as grim.

 

[meanstreak]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I find it odd that BvS, Suicide Squad, X-Men Apocalypse all have worse RT scores than Thor 2, Iron Man 2, Avengers 2, Ant Man, etc. since they are superior (or at the least) just as good as those films IMO.

I'm seeing this tomorrow night. I'm expecting to enjoy it more than BvS.

 

[Victοr]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

DC will always be able to reinvent their characters for new generations and older audiences - well Batman/new Jokers/Superman anyway. Can you really see a mass amount of people watching an Ant-Man reboot in ten years time?...Again not a Marvel vs DC, just something to point out as it will be interesting to see how Marvel handles the reboots with new actors etc.

Depends on the medium. Comics always reinvent and update their characters. Some work, some don't. Movie-Wise, some names will always attract certain audiences, but the flick itself has to be good as well.

 

[The Mike]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

It sounds like WB Studio Execs really screwed this one

In May, Ayer’s more somber version and a lighter, studio-favored version were tested with audiences in Northern California. “If there are multiple opinions that aren’t in sync, you go down multiple tracks — two tracks at least,” says an insider. “That was the case here for a period of time, always trying to get to a place where you have consensus.” Those associated with the film insist Ayer agreed to and participated in the process. Once feedback on the two versions was analyzed, it became clear it was possible to get to “a very common-ground place.” (The studio-favored version with more characters introduced early in the film and jazzed-up graphics won.) Getting to that place of consensus, however, required millions of dollars worth of additional photography

How do you answer this by smashing to different cuts together? They need to trust the directors they hire. This whole "It's better on Blu-Ray! They should have released that one instead!" is getting old.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/report-warn...source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

It also sounds like the pressure is really on WW and JL and it'll be interesting to see if Snyder learned enough to change JL's tone and feel without WB's meddling.

 

[Victοr]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I find it odd that BvS, Suicide Squad, X-Men Apocalypse all have worse RT scores than Thor 2, Iron Man 2, Avengers 2, Ant Man, etc. since they are superior (or at the least) just as good as those films IMO.

I'm seeing this tomorrow night. I'm expecting to enjoy it more than BvS.

The answer, at least in my opinion, is simple. The bad MCU movies don't get awful scores because, ultimately, they're like good ol' fairy tales. They have good humor, no low-brow or guy jokes, they have simple stories, likeable protagonists and in general make for a swell time, even if they aren't anything special. So, the reviewers don't find anything particularly wrong with them, as ultimately, they're straightforward movies about good guys vs bad guys. No disjointed scenes, no "deep meanings", no particular risks. When the MCU works, it works, but even when it stumbles, it's harmless enough to just give it a B- and move on. At least that's my take.

 

[jetpacksam]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

It sounds like WB Studio Execs really screwed this one.......without WB's meddling.

Nail on the head. WB employing the "Merchandising x ticket sales - cost = Y" to determine plot and if it doesn't trend right, they reshoot it.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

People need to realize what the source material for this movie is, it's not a "sweeping epic" or a "metaphoric story between gods and men." It's suicide squad, a comic that's not trying to make you think about good and bad, or how tight the story and characters are, but one that's just fun to indulge in characters that don't get enough solo time a rag tag group of over the top villains. the complaints about Joker not being in it enough isn't valid, as that's how they use the character in the New 52 (the stuff this flick is more/less based on). He's a wildcard, and that's a perfect role for Joker in a movie like this.

I say if you're itching for that dark, philosophical movie that includes some of these heroes/villains that's more in the line of a classic superhero movie with undertones of mythology, vulnerability, and martyrs this movie obvious isn't for you. You'll have to wait until the batfleck comes out.

I don't care about all the reviews, the same was with TDKR, BvS, IM3, AAOU, etc. If you like it, well you like it. And if you don't there's plenty of different mediums, including different versions of these characters to flock too. Just because it's a movie doesn't mean it's the "end all be all" of a certain property.

The Marvel vs DC thing is getting very old though. It's the second worst flame battle below the console battles (which honestly isn't as bad as it used to be).

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

. I'm sorry, but I'm not really getting what you're saying here. People compared it to the Guardians because it was a relatively obscure team starring people that aren't clear cut heroes. I don't think anybody ever compared the source material, as that's obviously very different between the two.

That and the style of the film, using old pop songs and a lot of humor, which is very different from the BvS, and more like a Marvel movie.

 

[a-dev]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

The answer, at least in my opinion, is simple. The bad MCU movies don't get awful scores because, ultimately, they're like good ol' fairy tales. They have good humor, no low-brow or guy jokes, they have simple stories, likeable protagonists and in general make for a swell time, even if they aren't anything special. So, the reviewers don't find anything particularly wrong with them, as ultimately, they're straightforward movies about good guys vs bad guys. No disjointed scenes, no "deep meanings", no particular risks. When the MCU works, it works, but even when it stumbles, it's harmless enough to just give it a B- and move on. At least that's my take.

Makes sense. And if DC thinks it's making films with loftier meaning and so forth maybe it shouldn't be surprised when it is held to a higher standard and criticised accordingly when it falls short.

 

[Shawpaw]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I thought Antman was decent. Thor 2 wasn't very good. It was about as good as BvS imo.

 

[jetpacksam]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

It's the second worst flame battle below the console battles (which honestly isn't as bad as it used to be).

See also:
Kirk Vs Picard.
Star Wars Vs Star Trek.

 

[theuzi9mm]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

DC will always be able to reinvent their characters for new generations and older audiences - well Batman/new Jokers/Superman anyway. Can you really see a mass amount of people watching an Ant-Man reboot in ten years time?...Again not a Marvel vs DC, just something to point out as it will be interesting to see how Marvel handles the reboots with new actors etc.

I didn't mind First Class (as that's the first reboot with new actors). I only saw 3/4 of Amazing Spiderman 2 on an airplane and I was very meh on it. (yeah iKnow who dies anyway) The first 'reboot' just didn't need to be made imho. 2008 was Spider Man 3, and less than 4yrs later, they're already working on a reboot? That's just silly in my book.

With Xmen essentially over in my eyes now, the final Jackman Wolverine outing due next year I am looking less and less forward to any subsequent Xmen movies. Apocalypse will be a dvd viewing, and already I don't think I will like it which will essentially end the Xmen franchise in my book. I've lowered my expectations on the final Wolverine movie, i hope they go with the X23/Old man Logan line. I'm one of the few who liked Xmen Origins Wolverine, I thought it was great.

You're right about Ant Man reboot! While enjoyable I don't envision myself getting sucked into a trilogy about Antman, he's not that integral a character to me.

It should be expunged from any movie exec's mind that every character in either a DC or Marvel universe should get their own trilogy of films. Inundating the market is the sure fire way to kill a franchise.

 

[jetpacksam]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

Actually there's quite a bit of evidence that Vincent was in fact murdered:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2838442/Van-Gogh-MURDERED-says-forensic-expert-New-theory-casts-doubt-long-held-belief-artist-shot-himself.html

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

Now that you mention it, kind of odd that this movie includes a recasting of a character who's last performer committed "suicide" after the role.