Dune Part Two (October 20th, 2023)

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So shogun is worth the time?
I've seen the first two episodes of Shogun and enjoyed it. There are certain things they've nailed, the production design is gorgeous and the acting ranges from good to great. Interested to see where they're able to take it. Brutal violence.
 
I can’t get over how good the actor was in the role. I was worried about him when trailers of the first film came out. Not really seen him in anything else.

5 min into the first film my fears were laid to rest. That kid has charisma!!
He did a good job and he has talent, but I can't get behind the casting choices for these films. I enjoyed them, I understand the difficulty of adapting this story -- if it were me I'd do it with a television series rather than the big screen.

But almost across the board I couldn't separate celebrity from character. May have been some of the the modern dialogue, their overexposure, I don't know. I get that Paul is not meant to be some bruiser action hero, but I have never been able to buy Chalamet's physicality as a fighter -- although they did do a great job with the duel scene.

My reaction to the film overall is "solid effort, I'm entertained" and there were some stunning sequences, but this is a very difficult story to get across in a few hours, as others have said.
 
...and yeah, the thing with Chani at the end was one of the bigger missteps Denis made. Makes no sense for the character or the culture.
Made perfect sense for the character in the movie though? Paul told her multiple he didn’t want to lead her people and take control, and then he did. He changed (and he had to, but still). She wanted no part in his holy war.

Gives her more depth than the book version that’s seemingly like “oh my god I love you unconditionally Paul, you can do absolutely no wrong in my eyes ever”. Boring.
 
I will say this, I do wish the passage of time have been presented a little bit better and that Paul had looked a little bit older towards the end to show proper passing of years which I guess is what happens in the book, years not months.








Chalamet inclusion was a condition for the financing. So was Zendaya and Austin Butler. Villeneuve was forced to give the dreaded "vote of public confidence" of the Chalamet casting in the MSM. One of the reasons that the cast is loaded with a lot of acting firepower is to try to surround Chalamet with others who can help carry him. A decent amount of the marketing rollout for Part 2 was to imply a relationship triangle with Paul / Chani / Irulan, assessing that most viewers would be casual viewers and not have background from the books.

You are right that a younger actor/older actor combination would make more sense. I've heard from multiple people that the quietly preferred choice was Max Pirkis. But Pirkis is not bankable and is retired from acting.

IMHO, Paul Atreides works better in the book than within the film medium. On the big screen, it would just be easier to focus on Duke Leto as the main character. ( Poe Dameron can pull off the physicality that the homeless man's version of Scissorhands cannot) But the narrative is trapped by canon. I liked Dune 2 but don't see good casting with Chalamet as Paul. He's a passable actor ( but can't elevate the material) and not impactful enough to qualify as a "movie star" Everyone in town quietly knows exactly why the industry is so desperate to try to make him a huge star , but no one wants to say it out loud.
 
Made perfect sense for the character in the movie though? Paul told her multiple he didn’t want to lead her people and take control, and then he did. He changed (and he had to, but still). She wanted no part in his holy war.

Gives her more depth than the book version that’s seemingly like “oh my god I love you unconditionally Paul, you can do absolutely no wrong in my eyes ever”. Boring.
According to Denis, Frank Herbert lamented that fans of the first book saw Paul as a hero, so he tried to emphasize the cautionary nature of the story in Messiah.
Denis wanted to include that extra emphasis in this movie, so he had Chani react differently (more realistically IMO) to Paul's betrayal.
 
It seems Javier's blue-eyed holy hobo - sultan of sand-planets, imam of immaculate locks, amorous admirer of ambiguous boy-kings, worshipper of wistful youths on giant worms, unwashed chooser of the chosen-one, ardent assassin of arabic language, tendentious tear-licker, - has gone viral under the hashtag "Stilgar's stare."

May this rockstar in a Life of Brian durag live long on Freaks as the reaction gif of choice for new figure releases.

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Made perfect sense for the character in the movie though? Paul told her multiple he didn’t want to lead her people and take control, and then he did. He changed (and he had to, but still). She wanted no part in his holy war.

Gives her more depth than the book version that’s seemingly like “oh my god I love you unconditionally Paul, you can do absolutely no wrong in my eyes ever”. Boring.
It read differently to me: the distaste for the holy war makes perfect sense, but she seemed pretty upset over Irulan, which for a pragmatic and battle hardened Fedaykin made no sense.
 
It read differently to me: the distaste for the holy war makes perfect sense, but she seemed pretty upset over Irulan, which for a pragmatic and battle hardened Fedaykin made no sense.
I think it was adding insult to injury at that point. She's already on poor terms with Paul before the confrontation with the Emperor, then he puts the cherry on top by pursuing Irulan.
 
I think it was adding insult to injury at that point. She's already on poor terms with Paul before the confrontation with the Emperor, then he puts the cherry on top by pursuing Irulan.
Yeeah, that's what I'm not buying into. Maybe it was just the way it was directed and acted.
 
I think it was adding insult to injury at that point. She's already on poor terms with Paul before the confrontation with the Emperor, then he puts the cherry on top by pursuing Irulan.







Villeneuve needed to create a hook for Dune Messiah. The ending of Dune the novel ( to be fair, it was written in the mid 60s, and Herbert was influenced by the contemporary geopolitical culture, tone and struggle at the time, it's hard to hit him too hard for concepts that now seem dated or unwieldly) is different from the ending of Dune 2 from a strategic political viewpoint. A contested rule is simply far easier to write a sequel, under which Villeneuve had no guarantee would happen.

Pugh was cast because she's proven before that she could carry Chalamet. The Paul/Irulan dynamic is an almost direct port over from Little Women. Pugh is phenomenal in that film. She steals every scene and carries the entire movie on her back. It's not a huge secret the industry is attempting to create a new normal with masculine female characters and soft cornered Beta male characters with patently reserved feminine qualities. Zendaya can only play herself, she has no acting range. But her general tone is overtly masculine. Pugh is also masculine in tone, but she's got an edge of vulnerability that you can't teach, you can't manipulate and you can't fake. Pugh at least attempts to balance out Chalamet and Paul. She's not trying to sell why Paul should love Irulan, but that a potential third film can relate to the audience by making it a more than reasonable question in the first place.

While Dune "canon" has cornered Villeneuve in so many places, here is a character dynamic that already exists that has a lot of built in conflict already. A large thematic driver of Dune is the idea of free will. It's why religion and history is so infused in the work. Paul has to watch his father marry for power and duty, but also have a concubine / "other" in Lady Jessica. Now he must do the same to his own future children. A formal wife, who he doesn't know if she will resent him for the arrangement, and an "other" who carries all of the baggage but none of the privilege of being the biggest political target in their universe.

Can you sell the "Mentat" dynamic to a casual viewing audience? A human super computer? A cross between Bill Gates and Tom Hagen? Well you can't really so the Dune films doesn't try too hard to go there.

What can you sell to a casual viewing audience?

Here's something that's politically incorrect to say, but it's the truth - Sometimes in life, you are into someone else, maybe you even love them, and your feelings are no longer rational. They trigger you in ways you cannot begin to understand. You just want them. Now with people like that, if you love them and they don't want you back at all, you get older and you understand that this is how life works. It might hurt to some level, or be disappointing, or be a point of self reflection that isn't pleasant to face, but it's how the "game" is played.

But try the alternative. You love someone completely. And they only want you just enough to pass the time. You are a reasonable proxy for them for now. Transactional. Almost mercenary with a smile. And the best you might get is to be settled for and resented for it in silence. That right there ( essentially what drove Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind) , that's the kind of dynamic that will utterly break some people in half. That's the kind of emotional devastation that some people might carry the rest of their lives.

If I am trying to build a script to draw in a casual audience for a film, I can sell the above. I can attempt to get them to relate to a very unpleasant but not uncommon situation regarding the basic human condition ( though the lense of an arranged marriage). However I can't really sell a Mentat to most people.

Villeneuve is a good filmmaker. He's attempting to set a Paul/Irulan/Chani dynamic that doesn't edge completely outside of some relatable convention for a third film. In a deeper question of destiny versus free will, what if your destiny is to surrender your own free will so others can have it. But you can't be sure because your father thought the exact same thing and all it did was trap you into the same vicious cycle.
 
I'm about to finally view the first film [ikr?] and will probably view 2 in theatre next week. But allow me to ask:

Are they really portraying Irulan as potentially being part of a throuple with Paul and Chani?! That's a quite huge break from the source material, in which iirc Paul tells Irulan Nope bish, you ain't getting this. Go take lovers, go do whatever not going to fight you on that. I don't care. I have to marry you for reasons of legitimacy, but I'm not ever touching you.

Paul tells her this IN PUBLIC. Complete disrespect from her point of view. This creates a firestorm of resentment within Irulan and makes her one of his fiercest enemies. Are they really going to abandon this storyline?
 
I'm about to finally view the first film [ikr?] and will probably view 2 in theatre next week. But allow me to ask:

Are they really portraying Irulan as potentially being part of a throuple with Paul and Chani?! That's a quite huge break from the source material, in which iirc Paul tells Irulan Nope bish, you ain't getting this. Go take lovers, go do whatever not going to fight you on that. I don't care. I have to marry you for reasons of legitimacy, but I'm not ever touching you.

Paul tells her this IN PUBLIC. Complete disrespect from her point of view. This creates a firestorm of resentment within Irulan and makes her one of his fiercest enemies. Are they really going to abandon this storyline?
Purely transactional, a business decision.
 
I'm about to finally view the first film [ikr?] and will probably view 2 in theatre next week. But allow me to ask:

Are they really portraying Irulan as potentially being part of a throuple with Paul and Chani?! That's a quite huge break from the source material, in which iirc Paul tells Irulan Nope bish, you ain't getting this. Go take lovers, go do whatever not going to fight you on that. I don't care. I have to marry you for reasons of legitimacy, but I'm not ever touching you.

Paul tells her this IN PUBLIC. Complete disrespect from her point of view. This creates a firestorm of resentment within Irulan and makes her one of his fiercest enemies. Are they really going to abandon this storyline?
It's possible Paul might make a more public move like that in the next film. Seems Denis is saving some things that happen in the first book for his version of Messiah. At least he's been thoughtful about his deviations thus far, they've been done for a reason.
 
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