Guardians of the Galaxy

[GasparZizou]

How can you not love that guy

 

[karamazov80]

Easily when you realize how badly he and Marvel ****ed over Jack Kirby.

 

[GasparZizou]

Wow, color me ignorant in that one, I've heard things about creative differences but I didn't know he actually ****ed over Kirby, what did he do?

 

[Niltusk]

Easily when you realize how badly he and Marvel ****ed over Jack Kirby.

Jack Kirby, great creator, dumb **** screwed himself over though. He sided with Marvel to keep Cap and screwed his actual creative partner over. Funny how ignorant fanbois dont mention Kirby's actions towards Simon. At least any part Stan played in court proceedings were within his duties as a Marvel employee, not just someone screwing a lifelong friend over for some bucks.

 

[GasparZizou]

So.... Stan cool?

 

[Niltusk]

You create something and your company says they own it. You goto court and your boss sides with the company and so does your best friend, who's the **** in this scenario. I sure would expect that behavior from my manager.... All public record btw....

 

[karamazov80]

Google it and you can find out different perspectives. From all I've seen, I feel that Marvel screwed Kirby over, and Lee was complicit in it, as it meant he got more credit, money, and fame by doing so. Kirby gets nowhere near the credit he deserves for his role in helping to forge the vast majority of Marvel's current A-list of characters (essentially everyone except Spider-Man). Same goes for Steve Ditko. Lee deserves lots of credit, but not as much as he's gotten relative to those others. He also had a debatable amount of input into the actual storytelling components of lots of those comics.

 

[Niltusk]

I disagree, Lee has worked an entire lifetime for one company, through many seasons in an industry when jumping companies was not only 'in', it almost at times seemed expected. You can Google what you like, it doesn't change his loyalty to his brand, if I feel bad for anyone it's Simon. I haven't read the case details in quite a few years, but I'm sure they're still out there.

 

[karamazov80]

Loyalty to the brand, legal rights, and whether Kirby screwed anyone else doesn't change Kirby's genuine contribution to the creation of those characters and stories that Marvel has consciously undervalued over the last 60+ years. It's about credit where credit is due, and Kirby hasn't received that. Ask the average comic movie fan about Stan Lee and they'll instantly know who he is and have some vague idea of what he's done. Ask about Jack Kirby and they'll have no idea.

 

[Niltusk]

Hmm, maybe he shouldn't have left Marvel at the height of his popularity. You know that period of time where people claim Marvel wasn't paying him any money, but actual tax records show he was making what top surgeons in the US were making...much more than any other talent at the time. The equivalent of people in 2050 whining about RDJ not being paid enough because of his contribution to building the MCU. Again, his contributions are legendary in the industry, but blaming all his problems on Stan is just...
I just think you can feel one is undervalued without having to villify the other.

 

[Frank]

Well Kirby was definitely the greater half of that partnership, but Lee did make a contribution obviously. He's not like that wretch Bob Kane. To his credit, Lee doesn't pretend like Jack never existed. At this point I don't have a problem appreciating him for what he did for Marvel so I'm happy to see him get all these cameos. In fact, I think we're due for a huge collection of all of them which might be enough for it's own movie by the time he moves up and out.

Let's have more retrospectives on Kirby though. Lee might have been a genius in his own way, but Kirby was the mega talent and ought to get more attention.

 

[GasparZizou]

I just think you can feel one is undervalued without having to villify the other.

Sooo Lee does deserve my love and Kirby too.

We need CGI Kirby cameos then.

 

[DFanatic]

I didn't realize this was an actual skull. Apparently this is the head of a Celestial that other creatures found and turned into a spaceport. Looks like it's this place.

 

[Ultron-7]

View attachment 110707

I didn't realize this was an actual skull. Apparently this is the head of a Celestial that other creatures found and turned into a spaceport. Looks like it's this place.

It's Knowhere, and if it's the same as the comics it's placed at the edge of the universe and difficult to get. Also nobody in the MU knows how it got there or what could of ripped the head of a Celestial off.

Edit: which is all summed up in your link didn't see it lol.

 

[Brainiac]

Yeah that's Knowhere, great to see this in the MCU, and I'm really pleased with the design

 

[karamazov80]

Hmm, maybe he shouldn't have left Marvel at the height of his popularity. You know that period of time where people claim Marvel wasn't paying him any money, but actual tax records show he was making what top surgeons in the US were making...much more than any other talent at the time. The equivalent of people in 2050 whining about RDJ not being paid enough because of his contribution to building the MCU. Again, his contributions are legendary in the industry, but blaming all his problems on Stan is just...
I just think you can feel one is undervalued without having to villify the other.

Of course it wasn't all Stan's fault, because there were legal rights issues, and monetary concerns Marvel wanted to protect that fed into all this. But prior to his leaving Marvel was clearly giving the creative credit to Lee, which was one of Kirby's main reasons for leaving (along with other contractual issues that didn't have anything to do with the base yearly salary). Yes, Lee has given some token credit to Kirby over the years, something that has actually happened more often in recent years, whether it be out of guilt or legal concerns, or trying to salvage his own reputation, or whatever. If Lee would have defended Kirby's role more staunchly in the '60s, when he certainly had the ability to do so, then we wouldn't have this skewed legacy. Primarily corporate Marvel is at fault, but Lee wasn't an innocent bystander. He capitalized on the myth that Lee was the primary party responsible for the creation of Marvel.

Let's have more retrospectives on Kirby though. Lee might have been a genius in his own way, but Kirby was the mega talent and ought to get more attention.

Agreed. The lack of things like this is the problem.

 

[Matt S]

Looks great!

 

[DarkKnightOmega72]

So psyched for the film. Hope it won't disappoint.

 

[Anzik]

Of course it wasn't all Stan's fault, because there were legal rights issues, and monetary concerns Marvel wanted to protect that fed into all this. But prior to his leaving Marvel was clearly giving the creative credit to Lee, which was one of Kirby's main reasons for leaving (along with other contractual issues that didn't have anything to do with the base yearly salary). Yes, Lee has given some token credit to Kirby over the years, something that has actually happened more often in recent years, whether it be out of guilt or legal concerns, or trying to salvage his own reputation, or whatever. If Lee would have defended Kirby's role more staunchly in the '60s, when he certainly had the ability to do so, then we wouldn't have this skewed legacy. Primarily corporate Marvel is at fault, but Lee wasn't an innocent bystander. He capitalized on the myth that Lee was the primary party responsible for the creation of Marvel.

Kirby definitely came out on the losing end of this but there is so much we aren't privy to. We don't know the nature of the split and any animosity incurred on either side. Not that it justifies not doing whats right but you are dealing with creative people who tend to be emotional and sometimes vindictive.
It would be cool to see some ancient alien sculpture of Kirby's head.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Google it and you can find out different perspectives. From all I've seen, I feel that Marvel screwed Kirby over, and Lee was complicit in it, as it meant he got more credit, money, and fame by doing so. Kirby gets nowhere near the credit he deserves for his role in helping to forge the vast majority of Marvel's current A-list of characters (essentially everyone except Spider-Man). Same goes for Steve Ditko. Lee deserves lots of credit, but not as much as he's gotten relative to those others. He also had a debatable amount of input into the actual storytelling components of lots of those comics.

Ditko and Kirby both got screwed over