Hot Toys 1:6 Justice League Figure Speculation

[RaBu]

still no new pictures right?

 

[xipotec]

Erm... he did, Zod flew straight back to Metropolis (sorry if you were being sarcastic - hard to tell)

Yes sarcastic....

If they had fought in space.....no human casualties....but no blockbuster destruction either......

They fought in the city for the simple fact that WB still holds that in order to be a blockbuster film we need to have lots of destruction......

They should pay more attention to characters.....and story....and less on the Independence day like effects and outfits...and popular music soundtracks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[dario2739]

I'm not seeing it. Then again there were a lot of weird things in Superman's early history while they were still figuring the character out. What matters is who he is now.

What exactly is realistic about a world that is only a shade above black and white? I'm looking out the window right now and its pretty bright and colorful out in the "real world". The pendulum of "realism" swung way too far in the other direction.

Its a pretty sophomoric view of art to declare that anything that is "dark and adult" must be "complex and smart" when its just one palate in a shade of many that defines the human experience. Yea, there's a lot of crap going on in the world, but its also filled with hope, humor, optimism, and inspiration. These are the things we strive for in our lives and it defines us as humans. In a way, its much more realistic than the unsentimental, objective, and almost robotic world view presented by filmmakers like Christopher Nolan.

Being "relevant" does in no way equate to the film being worth watching. Being entertaining does. And BvS was not.

Yea, and outside of camp appeal both of those are considered some of the worst interpretations of Batman precisely because they don't play to the strengths of the character.

No, its because being put in the so called "real" world worked for the character. Notice how there is absolutely zero pushback to Daredevil or Batman being made dark characters. its appropriate for them. There is a lot of pushback to making Superman that way because it isn't who the character is.

Zero change? The Superman I know would do something, anything to try and quell the damage around him (as he did in Superman Returns). Or the writers at the very least severely tone down the destruction **** to keep the focus away from the inevitable deaths and more on what Superman means to people when he saves the day.

But if you want to keep putting your hands in your ears and still declare that this is still a brilliant film as almost every critic and audience member completely tore this dumpster fire apart, be my guest. But the general public isn't buying it. And you can't dismiss that when even DC is worried.

Firstly - yeah BvS was hugely entertaining – you didn't like it, but it doesn't make you right... and if a majority agree with you... still doesn't make them right – usually the opposite, after all One Direction sell millions of records and they're, sanitised corporate pop, utter ****!

Nobody is putting their hands on their ears – I like my comic book movies to be faithful to the source material, not make comedy parodies out of them –*and in MoS and BvS, Superman is NOT dark... the world around him is –*which is true for the world today... just look at North Korea today, imagine what they'd be like now if Superman really existed and lived in the USA – THAT is what MoS is asking of you... you don't like that, then good luck, go watch the MCU with your bucket of popcorn and see a film that you forget ten minutes after leaving the cinema!
And who cares about critics, damn they panned Citizen Kane when it came out and it was a box office bomb... as were many of the movies we now consider classics – not saying BvS is of that standard, but it will be looked at differently in years to come, where others will be sunday afternoon TV fillers.
Finally, you still don't seem to get the point of Zod and Superman's fight – even with the high stakes involved... let's use an example scenario – say a gunman was strolling down the street randomly killing people... what do you do? Attend the people he's just shot and leave him to carry on? Or do you take him out first to stop further bloodshed? Don't worry it's rhetorical, because you know as well as I do what the answer is... Superman was on his own against numerous foes all equally powerful, and he was a rookie to it all... It's an origin story, he's not perfect and nor should he be! Also, the level of destruction was not "destruction ****" it was realistic – look at how much damage just two planes did to New York! I'd rather the MoS realism than the Age of Ultron ridiculousness!

 

[dario2739]

Yes sarcastic....

If they had fought in space.....no human casualties....but no blockbuster destruction either......

They fought in the city for the simple fact that WB still holds that in order to be a blockbuster film we need to have lots of destruction......

They should pay more attention to characters.....and story....and less on the Independence day like effects and outfits...and popular music soundtracks.

No idea where you get the Independence Day outfits from... and BvS had no popular music soundtrack!

But as for destruction – see my last post... realism!!! 911 showed what damage these kind of beings would cause in a built up City – I for one, appreciate the realism in destruction and cost in lives.

 

[dario2739]

That's not "crap." That IS the story. Comic books stopped being only for kiddies in the 1980s. I couldn't understand Dark Knight Returns or Watchmen when I was a kid. But now I can't settle for anything less adult and complex than that. If they want to make superhero stories for kids, they need to do those in the animated versions and leave the live-action films for adult sensibilities. Superman isn't interesting if he's in some fantasy, Disney-fied version of the world. The DCEU brought him into the real world and deals with how he would really be viewed and treated now. Without that, you don't have a film that's relevant or worth watching.

Never heard of Kraven's Last Hunt? The reason the Fantastic Four movies were so bad is precisely because they had this obscenely insipid light and fluffy view of the world and the characters. The characters and conflicts had no weight or depth to them. Batman isn't dark because he's "Batman." Remember the Adam West series? Super Friends? Batman was simply one of the first characters they "fixed" to not be a cartoony, comical joke, because Frank Miller's vision happened to be built around Batman. Notice no one expects Daredevil to be light and fluffy either. Once again, not because of anything built into the character. It's because the character was finally made memorable by a writer who put him in the REAL world. Exactly what the DCEU is trying to do for all its characters. The CHARACTERS aren't getting dark, their world is getting real. I don't see a single bit of moral change in Superman in the DCEU. He's the same person he always was. He's just dealing with a more complex world. The reason the climactic BVS battle works so well is because he has been put into an untenable position BECAUSE of his moral code. If he had no moral code, he wouldn't have to think twice about killing Batman to save his mom.

But the MCU movies that are built around "light"-toned stories filled with one-liners and team-ups are what's comical. I mean, they purposely didn't even MENTION Uncle Ben in Homecoming. F that. Dr. Strange was a good movie, but even that was mucked up with nonsensical, cringe-inducing slapstick about his cape beating people up. The MCU is putting out the most cornball superhero movies since Richard Pryor appeared in Superman 3. They're undoing all the wonderful weight, depth, realism and darkness put into the genre in the 30 years since Dark Knight Returns and slowly dialing the live-action superhero genre back to the Adam West days. I think they had a "vision" leading up to the Avengers and fulfilled it. Since then, they've been totally rudderless. Anything you can say about the DCEU being directionless or inconsistent applies much more fully to the post-Avengers MCU. These movies aren't even developing their own star characters properly let alone building up to anything meaningful. The half-baked Cap/Sharon Carter romance in Civil War was utterly pathetic compared to the great relationship between Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor.

I agree with a lot of your post –*I disagree that comic book movies shouldn't be light or for kids, my whole argument is that people seem to think they should, and that you can't have dark movies with serious themes, which is just bull****!!!

You mention Watchmen, which is a perfect example – Moore wrote that because of the twee, comical way super heroes were portrayed... he actually posed the question then, what if these characters were put in a real world setting... that comic is now considered one of, if not the best comic book ever written... so why is it that subject matter like that shouldn't be made on screen!?!

 

[dario2739]

Yea, and outside of camp appeal both of those are considered some of the worst interpretations of Batman precisely because they don't play to the strengths of the character.

No... no they weren't –*they were of their time, as was Donner's Superman, or the Seigel & Schuster early strips - they were faithful to the character at the time they were made... heroes reflect the times they're in, regardless of who they are!

 

[ShadowX81]

in MoS and BvS, Superman is NOT dark... the world around him is –*which is true for the world today... just look at North Korea today, imagine what they'd be like now if Superman really existed and lived in the USA

Even in today's "complicated" times there is still tons of good to be found. The human experience is largely unchanged. Hell, id take living today over times like World War 2 any day. People may be arguing a lot but the standard of living has never been higher and I'm under no immediate threats day to day.

And who cares about critics, damn they panned Citizen Kane when it came out and it was a box office bomb... as were many of the movies we now consider classics – not saying BvS is of that standard, but it will be looked at differently in years to come, where others will be sunday afternoon TV fillers.

What makes you think this? Why is it that a film that was torn apart by everyone that saw it and who's numerous fundimental flaws have been carefully dissected and documented hundreds of times (including in this thread) is suddenly going to be praised years from now?
It sounds a lot like those people 15 years ago who claimed that the Star Wars prequels are genius and we just didn't get it. Same with Spider-Man 3. Same with The Amazing Spider-Man films (man, that hero's had a tough go). Guess what? Years later and everyone still hates them.

Finally, you still don't seem to get the point of Zod and Superman's fight – even with the high stakes involved... let's use an example scenario – say a gunman was strolling down the street randomly killing people... what do you do? Attend the people he's just shot and leave him to carry on? Or do you take him out first to stop further bloodshed?

If I was the film maker and trying to create a film about a person that stops the gunman being the savior of mankind and a symbol of hope for everyone, id probably not show 45 minutes of people getting gunned down using shots which practically glorify the violence, while the hero essentially ignores the suffering around him in his pursuit of the villain.

Regardless of the fact that the hero does stop the bad guy in the end, the excessive, drawn out violence and hero's reluctance to even mitigate the slightest bit of it (regardless of his motives or intentions) doesn't leave the audience with the feeling of "this man is a symbol of hope and here to save us". Only that a terrible tragedy occurred because innocents were caught in the middle of a grudge match between two people. The fact that one of them was in the moral right is almost inconsequential when the film maker's focus is clearly on "cool" destruction visuals.

It's an origin story, he's not perfect and nor should he be! Also, the level of destruction was not "destruction ****" it was realistic – look at how much damage just two planes did to New York! I'd rather the MoS realism than the Age of Ultron ridiculousness!

And see, I hate this most of all. Now I get why people hate origin movies. Because we don't actually get to watch the hero we came here to see. And to stretch it out across multiple movies is inexcusable. Its not an origin story if he still isn't the Superman we know and love by the end of the movie. We don't see him learning anything from his colossal (borderline genocidal) screw up in Metropolis and this whole "hes still learning" justification was clearly something made up by apologists after people took problems with the movie. Snyder fully intended for this to be the complete Superman.

But since this is the route the movie's fans have chosen to take, it begs the question: How many movies are we going to need before he is finally the hero we want to see?

 

[SilverStar17]

Yes sarcastic....

If they had fought in space.....no human casualties....but no blockbuster destruction either......

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agreed. Which is why they wrote into the story that after the Black Zero, World Engine and the rest of Zod's cronies were all defeated, that his only purpose at that point was to cause as much damage and rack up as many casualties as possible as retribution for his defeat. Therefore, Superman politely asking Zod to fight him elsewhere would have pretty much been as useless as an air conditioner on Hoth.

 

[nexus]

I didn't realize WB had changed the strategy from having JL1 and JL2 to just making JL a self-contained movie. While the possibility of the movie completely tanking is pretty low, I think it's going to have to top $1B at the box office to guarantee JL2, especially with an expanded hero roster. The budget was originally $200M-$220M. With reshoots and all the other behind the scenes drama, it's got to be at least $250M. Then add anpther $150M - $200M in marketing. So there's a huge amount riding on the success of this movie. Maybe not the entire future of the DCEU, but several movies would probably get pushed back or cancelled.

I'm still surprised there has been nothing on Green Lantern other than the odd Arnie Hammer rumor (I think he'd be a better Shazam). I wonder if the "Green Lantern" is going to end up being either Abin-Sur (a character actor in heavy makeup) or possibly a completely CGI character. That would clear the way for WB to take more time in casting Hal Jordan and John Stewart. A real wild card, however, could be Green Lantern Sinestro as the 7th member. Which could actually be a pretty cool twist of having one of the biggest villains in the DCU being a founding member of the Justice League. That could then tee up the Green Lanterns movie where Sinestro has gone rogue and turned villain.

Back to HT figure speculation...
The core six are a given (including two versions of Batman). My guess on the odds on other possible figs:
> Black Suit Superman -- probably 70/30 if the version shows up (hopefully beard plus mullet). Would probably be an exclusive at one of the toy shows.
> Mera -- 35/65 depending on performance. HT might hold off until Aquaman, but they may want to have an early Amber Heard head sculpt they can improve upon. Would also discourage knockoffs.
> Green Lantern -- 50/50 1st movie has to perform well; 2nd if GL appears in the final act, folks will want to complete the team; 3rd depends on who it is. If it's a famous actor like Bradley Cooper (my top pick) playing Hal Jordan it will be a higher priority than an actor in alien makeup or CGI. A GL Sinestro played by another famous actor would also be a high priority
> Steppenwolf -- 15/85. First HT doesn't have the best track record on producing villains. 2nd, I think he's supposed to be 7' or 8' tall, which means an original body and one-use tooling. 3rd, Darkseid is really what everyone will be waiting for.
> Parademons -- 50/50. I equate these to Chituri and Ultron Drones. The Chituri got produced, but Ultron drones never got solicited. Seriously HT should really just farm figs like Ultron Drones and Hammer Drones out to other companies to make relatively inexpensive low articulation versions. I'd have been fine with UD with 6, 8 or 10 points.
Darkseid -- 60/40. Even if he only shows up after credits like Thanos in Avengers folks are going to want one sooner rather than waiting 2-3 years. But again movie will have to top $1B.

 

[Popnfresh98]

I feel Mera wouldn't come until aquaman. And I'm ok with that as I like the green of her outfit from there more.
I highly doubt we'll see steppenwolf even though I'd prefer him to darkseid.

Basically agree with you on the rest.

 

[TheBatman]

 

[dario2739]

And see, I hate this most of all. Now I get why people hate origin movies. Because we don't actually get to watch the hero we came here to see. And to stretch it out across multiple movies is inexcusable. Its not an origin story if he still isn't the Superman we know and love by the end of the movie. We don't see him learning anything from his colossal (borderline genocidal) screw up in Metropolis and this whole "hes still learning" justification was clearly something made up by apologists after people took problems with the movie. Snyder fully intended for this to be the complete Superman.

But since this is the route the movie's fans have chosen to take, it begs the question: How many movies are we going to need before he is finally the hero we want to see?

And see, I hate this most of all – somebody saying "the hero we came to see", when the hero you yearn for existed for a fraction of that character's near 80yr existence... it's simply like saying every screen version of Batman should be like Adam West!
And yes, it IS an origin story –*how can you say it's not... really it's like you're sat there with your eyes close and fingers in your ears, rocking backward and forward in denial! And to say the learning bit is 'apologist' is ridiculous to.... to genuinely think that one man (even if he were trained in combat) could beat 8+ equally powered beings, that WERE combat trained and whose only purpose was terraforming the planet and killing EVERYONE on it, without colossal damage being done is absolutely ridiculous in the extreme... this is not Chitauri flying around doing nothing allowing Avengers (fof who there are many) to get their jobs done, or Ultron Robots who bizarrely had a breather to allow and evacuation of an entire city!
One man, against almost a dozen who all had one purpose... not forgetting a World Engine on the other side of the world that quite simply had to be taken out first... there was no gratuitous destruction, there was destruction for a purpose, it showed what would happen, it showed consequence - simple as that!
Donner's Superman is a great film – it was on TV here just this weekend, and I watched... it is enjoyable, and Reeves is fantastic, but it's of it's time – Superman II moreso – they are dated and it shows... As a kid I absolutely loved the A-Team, and when they rebooted with a movie recently, on first viewing I thought it wasn't great... but after seeing an old 80's episode again – god it was terrible!
Superman hasn't been the Donner character for over 30 years, he wasn't that character for the first 20-or-so yrs of his creation – don't try and tell us that Cavill wasn't Superman... or that he didn't try to save anyone –*the character refused his birthright and risked his life to save EVERYONE on the planet –*Billions of people, before that he's clearly seen to have saved countless people... excuse him for not trying to save a cat in a tree when the planet's being destroyed and a military leader is trying to pound his head into the ground... or would you rather go back to the Superman who gleefully smiles whilst killing Zod in his Fortress of Solitude?

Superman himself says it all...

 

[dario2739]

I didn't realize WB had changed the strategy from having JL1 and JL2 to just making JL a self-contained movie. While the possibility of the movie completely tanking is pretty low, I think it's going to have to top $1B at the box office to guarantee JL2, especially with an expanded hero roster. The budget was originally $200M-$220M. With reshoots and all the other behind the scenes drama, it's got to be at least $250M. Then add anpther $150M - $200M in marketing. So there's a huge amount riding on the success of this movie. Maybe not the entire future of the DCEU, but several movies would probably get pushed back or cancelled.

I'm still surprised there has been nothing on Green Lantern other than the odd Arnie Hammer rumor (I think he'd be a better Shazam). I wonder if the "Green Lantern" is going to end up being either Abin-Sur (a character actor in heavy makeup) or possibly a completely CGI character. That would clear the way for WB to take more time in casting Hal Jordan and John Stewart. A real wild card, however, could be Green Lantern Sinestro as the 7th member. Which could actually be a pretty cool twist of having one of the biggest villains in the DCU being a founding member of the Justice League. That could then tee up the Green Lanterns movie where Sinestro has gone rogue and turned villain.

Back to HT figure speculation...
The core six are a given (including two versions of Batman). My guess on the odds on other possible figs:
> Black Suit Superman -- probably 70/30 if the version shows up (hopefully beard plus mullet). Would probably be an exclusive at one of the toy shows.
> Mera -- 35/65 depending on performance. HT might hold off until Aquaman, but they may want to have an early Amber Heard head sculpt they can improve upon. Would also discourage knockoffs.
> Green Lantern -- 50/50 1st movie has to perform well; 2nd if GL appears in the final act, folks will want to complete the team; 3rd depends on who it is. If it's a famous actor like Bradley Cooper (my top pick) playing Hal Jordan it will be a higher priority than an actor in alien makeup or CGI. A GL Sinestro played by another famous actor would also be a high priority
> Steppenwolf -- 15/85. First HT doesn't have the best track record on producing villains. 2nd, I think he's supposed to be 7' or 8' tall, which means an original body and one-use tooling. 3rd, Darkseid is really what everyone will be waiting for.
> Parademons -- 50/50. I equate these to Chituri and Ultron Drones. The Chituri got produced, but Ultron drones never got solicited. Seriously HT should really just farm figs like Ultron Drones and Hammer Drones out to other companies to make relatively inexpensive low articulation versions. I'd have been fine with UD with 6, 8 or 10 points.
Darkseid -- 60/40. Even if he only shows up after credits like Thanos in Avengers folks are going to want one sooner rather than waiting 2-3 years. But again movie will have to top $1B.

I think they meant (with JL1) that it doesn't have a "To Be Continued" cliff hanger ending, but it is still connected to JL2

 

[TheBatman]

Superman's black suit incoming!

 

[sj2106]

Superman's black suit incoming!

View attachment 363215

Fingers crossed.

 

[snakeeyes171]

That figure was in the bvs figures also, but they had to make other variation then, this time it's got everyone in the movie in this waves. But the bvs line also had the lex suit figure, and that was not in the movie

 

[Hoody999]

Superman's black suit incoming!

View attachment 363215

So for someone not as well versed in the DC / Justice League history. Who are the other characters ??

Would be awesome if someone could write a list FGH61 = Superman, etc etc

Wonder if we will see all these in the first JL movie ?

 

[snakeeyes171]

first superman, wonder woman, regular suit batman, cyborg,aquaman Steppenwolf, parademon. wave 2 tactical armor batman,flash, alternate parademon,black suit superman,armor cyborg,street aquaman,atlantean guard

 

[TheBatman]

first superman, wonder woman, regular suit batman, cyborg,aquaman Steppenwolf, parademon. wave 2 tactical armor batman,flash, alternate parademon,black suit superman,armor cyborg,street aquaman,atlantean guard

Spot on!

 

[snakeeyes171]

Spot on!

thanks, I have been studying my dceu