Hot toys and Star Wars

[Pixelpiper]

I should probably ignore the whole post, what with the name-calling and all. Anyway, that's a lot of text and no research. Not going to bother with it point by point because none of it is based on fact, including, but not limited to what has been said by Mr. Chan of Hot Toys. I know how facts are frowned upon by many forum members who prefer fantasy and conjecture. You really don't know the toy/collectibles landscape as well as you pretend, to. Clearly you need to take your own advice, as bitter a pill as it may be.

 

[Niltusk]

That's a lot of text and no research. Not going to bother with it point by point because none of it is based on fact, including, but not limited to what has been said by Mr. Chan of Hot Toys. You really don't know the toy/collectibles landscape as well as you think, and pretend, to. Clearly you need to take your own advice, as bitter a pill as it may be.

Stay ignorant! Seem you're comfortable with it.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Stay ignorant! Seem you're comfortable with it.

I'm comfortable in what I know to be 100% fact. Calling someone ignorant doesn't make them so. Seriously, give it up, look in the mirror sometime.

But keep up the insults and you'll get get reported.

 

[Niltusk]

I'm comfortable in what I know to be 100% fact. Calling someone ignorant doesn't make them so. Seriously, give it up, look in the mirror sometime.

But keep up the insults and you'll get get reported.

Its not an insult, you're ignorant of the context of the discussion, which is proven by you're links which had nothing to do with what people were talking about.

You were the one who had a problem with people thinking this, you're the one whos been googling it up, and apparently, you're the one who thinks a deal between Hasbro and Sideshow somehow effects Medicom's license. Its your ignorance buddy, bathe in it. I've stuck to my original thoughts the entire time, Chan made statements like he'd like to get the Medicom license, its an opinion shared by many form his statements, you're the one running around like a joke with something to prove. Please report me, you obviously need something to make you feel big and important.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Poof! And like magic the world was cleansed!

Like I say to all my friends when we're talking business. Money on the table. Now let's wait and see. BTW, I'm rarely, if ever wrong. Not because I'm the smartest person in the room - not by a long shot, but because I don't open my mouth unless I'm doubly sure of something. Know the facts, THEN talk. That's my motto.

 

[Niltusk]

First thing you've ever said that makes sense, I seriously doubt you would ever be mistaken for the smartest person in any room.

 

[bobh84]

This pixelpiper guy blows me away. He always shows up in these threads like he has all the answers to EVERYTHING. Always telling members to take an afternoon off and search through all this posts and read all his golden words.

Dude, NOBODY NEEDS SIDESHOW'S BLESSING TO MAKE STAR WARS TOYS. THEY DON'T NEED HASBRO'S BLESSING. THEY NEED DISNEY'S. THAT IS ALL.

Did you notice that Medicom is now doing a line 6" Star Wars figures? At the same time as Hasbro is doing a line of 6" Star Wars figures? How do you explain that? Didn't you just tell me a month ago that something like that could NEVER happen and that I was living in a fantasy world?

I'll tell you something else. As of about 2 years ago, Sideshow needs Hot Toys a hell of a lot more than Hot Toys needs Sideshow.

 

[Niltusk]

All he did when you spanked his ignorance before was post blah blah blah, i don't have inside knowledge, I'm a google warrior, waaah.

He spends all this time googling stuff and if it makes him feel important, I guess more power to him.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Did you notice that Medicom is now doing a line 6" Star Wars figures?

Go look at how they have the sub-license to do this. You guys really crack me up. Go look at how they've obtained sub-licenses for so many things they've made over the years.

I know you're new, but I also don't "come in" anywhere, I'm a member here like everyone else, with the privilege to post. If you want to run private discussions, there's a messaging system on the forum for that - or you can start your own private invitation-only forum.

Anyway, let's just agree to wait and see. I've seen plenty in the toy/collectibles hobby in the past 20 years, things generally continue to run and develop in the same fashion.

Other than that, your position can be best summarized with this wikipedia entry

 

[bobh84]

Go look at how they have the sub-license to do this. You guys really crack me up. Go look at how they've obtained sub-licenses for so many things they've made over the years.

I know you're new, but I also don't "come in" anywhere, I'm a member here like everyone else, with the privilege to post. If you want to run private discussions, there's a messaging system on the forum for that - or you can start your own private invitation-only forum.

Anyway, let's just agree to wait and see. I've seen plenty in the toy/collectibles hobby in the past 20 years, things generally continue to run and develop in the same fashion.

Other than that, your position can be best summarized with this wikipedia entry

You just instructed me to do 5 things in 1 post. I won't be doing any of them, thanks. The thing is, you don't work INSIDE the licensing business. You keep pointing everyone to press releases or google pages. When/if Hot Toys talks to Disney, Hasbro isn't going to jump in and say "But wait, didn't you see our press release? We have all the toy rights!" No. Because they DON'T have ALL the toy rights to everything imaginable. Disney can carve out a deal for Hot Toys that is for their own specific market and even their own price point. They don't need Hasbro's permission to grant Hot Toys a license to do, for example, a $200 1/6 figure for the Chinese direct market with specific exporting rights. If Hot Toys suddenly got into the $30 1/6 business and hoped to sell SW figures at Wal-Mart and Target in the USA, then they would probably have to get together with Hasbro and come to an agreement. That's about all there is to it. ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN in private and deals can be made regardless of what some public press release or google page says.

You also keep saying how Hot Toys doesn't want to step on toes at Sideshow. Wow. Who is the leader and who is the follower in that relationship? Who needs who more?

I was having fun reading this forum with all the speculation and wish lists until Mr. Party Pooper showed up. YOU DO NOT KNOW who can do what with the license, and NEITHER DOES GOOGLE.

I'm not trying to attack you. I just wish you'd let people share their ideas and wants for the hobby and have fun without jumping in and pooping on everything.

If I had to make a GUESS, like you usually do, I'd say the ONLY reason Hot Toys isn't cranking out Star Wars figures right now is because that license is currently DEAD compared to what's happening with Marvel's merchandising. Collectors in China go WILD for anything robot/tech and American super heroes. Star Wars has been old news for years.

 

[Darth_IMPoor]

I was with you on the whole post.....until the SW is a dead license thing. I realize you did say relative to current Marvel, but still couldn't agree with that. I honestly think Howard loves SW. I believe HE believes the character list he's mentioned is coming out. But it's not that the license is dead, it's HT priority that's messed up. That's the shame. SS has proved time and time again, you can make a figure of a character that's had minimal screen time and or minimal lines and it will sell. That's why SS will always have a place in this hobby. HT will pretty much just do core characters, unfortunately the SW universe has a ton (and by that I'm including costume variations of said characters). It would make sense to me if the delay is because of some backroom dealing. If HT feels the license is dead, and that's why they wait, they are missing a HUGE opportunity.

 

[bobh84]

I was with you on the whole post.....until the SW is a dead license thing. I realize you did say relative to current Marvel, but still couldn't agree with that. I honestly think Howard loves SW. I believe HE believes the character list he's mentioned is coming out. But it's not that the license is dead, it's HT priority that's messed up. That's the shame. SS has proved time and time again, you can make a figure of a character that's had minimal screen time and or minimal lines and it will sell. That's why SS will always have a place in this hobby. HT will pretty much just do core characters, unfortunately the SW universe has a ton (and by that I'm including costume variations of said characters). It would make sense to me if the delay is because of some backroom dealing. If HT feels the license is dead, and that's why they wait, they are missing a HUGE opportunity.

It's hard to accept as a fan, but it's true. Relative to Marvel, Ninja Turtles, etc. How much NEW Star Wars product have you seen on store shelves this year, and actually sell, compared to Marvel and Turtles product? Hasbro's Star Wars product is DEAD and collecting dust. People blame it on poor distribution, but no, it's because the product sells at a snail's pace. Walmart is not going to order another 10 cases of Star Wars figures when they still have unsold figures on the shelves from 3 years ago. The only thing selling is Angry Birds. And that's because it's Angry Birds, not because it's Star Wars. I shed a tear when I see Star Wars can't even sell itself on its own identity anymore. It has to become an Angry Bird or a Potato head to sell itself.

Marvel has TONS of new content coming out every week in comic books, e-comics, etc. They have 4 huge movies being released this year. They have huge home video releases of their movies coming out. Direct to DVD releases coming left and right. Just MASSIVE amounts of new and old content coming at consumers from every angle. And now with Guardians they are giving us something NEW while still making sure you know it's the MARVEL brand.

If you were selling $30 skateboards at Wal-Mart this summer, would you sell more Spider-Man, Hulk and Wolverine skateboards or Darth Vader and Darth Maul skateboards?

Hot Toys would make a mint selling the 8-10 core classic Star Wars characters. After that, it's pretty much done. You're going to sell more Avengers 2 figures than Greedo figures. Another big thing to remember is that the market can only handle so many $200 Hot Toys figures per year. Are you going to abandon the Marvel Cinematic Universe for a year to make those 8 Star Wars figures? Then try to jump back on the Marvel train when Avengers 3 comes out?

Having said all that, I still think the original trilogy is the best thing ever. But I admit it's old news.

 

[Darth_IMPoor]

I think we're kinda on the same page. Wolverine could very well outsell Darth Vader on skateboards, shoes, etc. And I'm OT all day and agree it's old school. I just think the license as a whole is no where near dead. The fact it still has a presence on toys shelves with no supporting movie in years is a testament to that. BUT, it has new comics coming out, new TV shows, continuation of the movie series AND sub-movies that are character specific. Toys, notebook/folders, Pez etc...are following I'm sure. I see more SW references in commercials and TV shows than Ninja Turtles, Avengers, Marvel DC/Heroes combined. It may not make for good OT 1/6 figures, but the license is strong. I think even if HT wants to play it slow until whatever it is that's holding them up passes, do it. I doubt 1 or 2 SW in between the Marvel/Terminator stuff would set them back that much. I think a ROTS Anakin would outsell Lone Ranger (and I want the Lone Ranger). I believe they are underestimating the power of the Force.

 

[bobh84]

Everyone knows what Star Wars is but that doesn't equal sales anymore.

It's crazy to think that Duck Dynasty is a much more lucrative brand to Wal-Mart than Star Wars. Can't say the same about Marvel or Turtles.

That may change if they deliver a knock-out Star Wars movie in 2015-16 or whatever it ends up being.

Of course Star Wars is still a strong brand to the adult collector but that isn't where the money is to Disney. The real money is in all the disposable toys and "collectibles" that sell at WalMart, Target, Kmart, TRU, etc.

 

[rubio95]

Poof! And like magic the world was cleansed!

Like I say to all my friends when we're talking business. Money on the table. Now let's wait and see. BTW, I'm rarely, if ever wrong. Not because I'm the smartest person in the room - not by a long shot, but because I don't open my mouth unless I'm doubly sure of something. Know the facts, THEN talk. That's my motto.

Love this.

I'm certainly glad you kept this in mind when you were scared that SideShow gave you a defective Darth Vader helmet with the gunmetal paint on half of it

 

[bobh84]

Love this.

I'm certainly glad you kept this in mind when you were scared that SideShow gave you a defective Darth Vader helmet with the gunmetal paint on half of it

I just read this: "I suppose some jack-hole in prop production could have had a laugh painting up the mask in this lamebrain fashion."

Dude. I don't even know where to begin.

 

[bobh84]

A little off track, but here's a little story for Pixel.

I had met the founders of Sideshow about the same time I first started working in licensing. It was at a small horror con in LA, maybe a Fangoria con, in the mid-ninties. They had a SMALL table set up and were passing out ad slicks for series 1 or 2 or their six inch Universal Monsters figures. All they'd done to that point as a company was some monster little big heads. We talked a bit, and their big thing was trying to secure Lugosi's likeness rights from the estate for a Sideshow Dracula figure. A company I was friendly with had already done so for another Lugosi Dracula product and I had passed along how they'd secured the rights to the Sideshow guys. Hard to believe that was almost 20 years ago.

That's about how long I've been working in licensing. Cheers.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

You both make some really good points Bob & IMpoor - & I agree with both of you, more or less.

Anything can happen with these companies; sure - there's a certain amount of info that you can gleen via the net, but it means little when deals & conversations are likely being had on a fairly regular basis that we're simply not privy to. It really doesn't get much plainer than that.

SW - dead? Nah.. the gears have slowed down a little on some fronts, but it's a guaranteed evergreen. Mentioning sales in stores is a relative thing depending on locality really, unless you have all the stats in front of you, it's not an accurate way to assess things as a whole. There's a ton of media coming - but yeah, the iron isn't perhaps 'red hot' right now.

Marvel is powering no doubt - & it's also somewhat of an evergreen; maybe more so in some ways, because the characters are far older than anything from SW. However - again, once REBELS (younger audience) starts, & the movies roll in - it'll be back on in a big way. I suspect the marketing for SW going forward, will be handled differently to uncle George in some ways as well. Disney has a fresh team & perspective, so it's only going up as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Rorywan]

pixelpiper[/B];6582465]Poof! And like magic the world was cleansed!

Like I say to all my friends when we're talking business. Money on the table. Now let's wait and see. BTW, I'm rarely, if ever wrong. Not because I'm the smartest person in the room - not by a long shot, but because I don't open my mouth unless I'm doubly sure of something. Know the facts, THEN talk. That's my motto.

What?

(tapered light sabres in the OT?)

 

[third3ye]

Just throwing this out there. I'd be curious to see how dependent HT is on non-US revenues. We know Star Wars toys in the domestic market are not dependent on content releases, based on the industry trend over the last decade-plus - SW toys still stay in the top 5 boys franchises even in years when there's no new content in film or TV. So it should stand to reason, and I think SSC knows this, that the US market will eat up quite literally almost any sixth scale SW figure. However, Star Wars doesn't carry anywhere near the weight that Marvel and namely Iron Man does overseas, certainly in non-content years like what we're experiencing now. When Ep7 comes out though, HT better be in a position to start releasing figures because global demand will be there.