1/6 Hot Toys BvS: Dawn of Justice-Wonder Woman

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Ah believe me, I can understand that also. People go to the movies to escape from reality for a mere few hours, so many people don't want to see "real life" played out on the big screen with all the negativity that they already encounter in the real world. Especially in a superhero film like you said, because these are supposed to be characters that people should aspire to be, not characters that already remind us of ourselves.

However, I feel that's precisely why characters such as Batman and Iron Man tend to be quite popular, especially with younger crowds, because they are "flawed". Batman's motivation to do good essentially stems from revenge for what happened to his parents, while characters such as Superman and Captain America already possess an innate goodness that isn't motivated by revenge nor anything else other than simply wanting to try and do good. In our society, many people always feel there's a catch to something, so when we encounter people and see these characters that are intrinsically good and amiable with no strings attached, we have the propensity to question their intentions. I felt this was accurately conveyed in the scene in BvS that showed Supes doing acts of goodness, while people debated the need for a "Superman" and what they feel his intentions are based on ourselves. During that scene, there was a quote that said we as people have the tendency to project ourselves onto others, so if we feel we're flawed and are capable of a certain thing, then we tend to project this onto others when it actually might not be the case. It goes back to what I mentioned in my previous post about many people not liking to feel like someone else is above them. And that quote was then followed up with another quote with someone saying that perhaps he's neither a God nor a demon, but is simply a guy who is just trying to do the right thing. The fact that Supes at the end of BvS was rejected by many, but still possessed the strength and valor to sacrifice himself for the safety of the very people that rejected him gave me all the hope in the world. I like the fact that starting with MoS, Snyder made it a learning journey for him. People are learning about him as much as he is learning about himself. He doesn't put on the blue and red suit and automatically knows what to do in every situation. Jonathan Kent's quote in MoS before his death even alludes to that, where he said that he and Martha have been doing the best they can and have been making it up as they go along, so perhaps their best isn't good enough anymore. How we handle adversity tends to be a testament to show what we're really made of. I felt Supes demonstrated this perfectly in both MoS and BvS.

Despite how cynical our society can be, I like to believe that deep down, people know what the "right" thing is. Sometimes our brains are wired and conditioned to think a certain way though.

You're right though, because that's the beauty of opinions; they're neither right nor wrong. Someone else's opinion is no more valid than yours, and yours is no more valid than theirs. It is indeed interesting to hear different viewpoints. :duff

:goodpost:
 
Ah believe me, I can understand that also. People go to the movies to escape from reality for a mere few hours, so many people don't want to see "real life" played out on the big screen with all the negativity that they already encounter in the real world. Especially in a superhero film like you said, because these are supposed to be characters that people should aspire to be, not characters that already remind us of ourselves.

However, I feel that's precisely why characters such as Batman and Iron Man tend to be quite popular, especially with younger crowds, because they are "flawed". Batman's motivation to do good essentially stems from revenge for what happened to his parents, while characters such as Superman and Captain America already possess an innate goodness that isn't motivated by revenge nor anything else other than simply wanting to try and do good. In our society, many people always feel there's a catch to something, so when we encounter people and see these characters that are intrinsically good and amiable with no strings attached, we have the propensity to question their intentions. I felt this was accurately conveyed in the scene in BvS that showed Supes doing acts of goodness, while people debated the need for a "Superman" and what they feel his intentions are based on ourselves. During that scene, there was a quote that said we as people have the tendency to project ourselves onto others, so if we feel we're flawed and are capable of a certain thing, then we tend to project this onto others when it actually might not be the case. It goes back to what I mentioned in my previous post about many people not liking to feel like someone else is above them. And that quote was then followed up with another quote with someone saying that perhaps he's neither a God nor a demon, but is simply a guy who is just trying to do the right thing. The fact that Supes at the end of BvS was rejected by many, but still possessed the strength and valor to sacrifice himself for the safety of the very people that rejected him gave me all the hope in the world. I like the fact that starting with MoS, Snyder made it a learning journey for him. People are learning about him as much as he is learning about himself. He doesn't put on the blue and red suit and automatically knows what to do in every situation. Jonathan Kent's quote in MoS before his death even alludes to that, where he said that he and Martha have been doing the best they can and have been making it up as they go along, so perhaps their best isn't good enough anymore. How we handle adversity tends to be a testament to show what we're really made of. I felt Supes demonstrated this perfectly in both MoS and BvS.

Despite how cynical our society can be, I like to believe that deep down, people know what the "right" thing is. Sometimes our brains are wired and conditioned to think a certain way though.

You're right though, because that's the beauty of opinions; they're neither right nor wrong. Someone else's opinion is no more valid than yours, and yours is no more valid than theirs. It is indeed interesting to hear different viewpoints. :duff

(spoiler tagged, just in case)

Funnily enough, I agree with most of your post. I completely agree that flaws do make characters more interesting. Conflict and struggle make for interesting stories, even more so if you're connected to a character and want to see them succeed (or fail, as the case may be). But I feel like there are certain flaws that work better for certain characters, and the flaws they gave Superman don't fit the core of the character as I see him.

Clark learning to become Superman is a good, interesting character arc; and self-sacrifice is a good way to end it. I just don't think it was executed well. It's interesting because while you felt all the hope in the world during that one scene, I felt apathy. Similarly, in MoS, the moment when Supes decides to save Earth instead of Krypton ("Krypton had its chance"), that should have been a big character-defining moment for him, and I had a similar non-reaction. Both felt like they had to happen because of the plot (or whatever themes the movie was trying to hammer home), and neither felt like a natural development from what had come before. Superman picking Earth over Krypton doesn't feel as important when we don't see why he wants humans to survive (or at least not die). He's been running around saving people as an adult, but before that, his dad's telling him to hide his powers and maybe not save people. That moment should be the resolution to some struggle/conflict over his home on Earth and his past on Krypton (and that would be a really interesting thing to see); but we don't really get to see that on screen, just flashes here and there. By the same token, sacrificing himself against Doomsday doesn't feel important when we don't see why his life meant so much. If it makes any sense, his death didn't feel earned (which is such a weird thing to say about anyone, especially a fictional character). Again, we see flashes of why he doesn't want to give his life (Lois, the little bits of good that he does), but it wasn't like he was doing a lot of good before that last fight (he was basically ready to hang up the cape). So when he does what is ultimately the right thing, it carried no emotional weight for me because I stopped caring about Superman as a hero/character. It might as well have been random cop #4 who gives his life at the final moment. Superman can have his flaws and learning pains, but if he's going to play the part of a hero, then I need to see the character development that justifies him being one.

Superman not being sure what the right thing to do all the time is a fair flaw if he's learning to be a hero. It's a subtle difference, but to me, the conflict should be "how can I help?" instead of "should I help?" There was an earnest want to do good that seemed to be missing from the movies, and I've always seen that as a core part of Superman's character.

I think what I've convinced myself through all of this discussion is that, somewhere deep down, there is the potential for two really good Superman movies in MoS and BvS. I wish I could enjoy them the way that you do, but they just don't hit the right buttons for me.
 
Lex was ****ing abysmal however. I wanted Batman to kill him. I mean I don't see why this version wouldn't.

POTENTIAL SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think they were trying to do for Lex what Heath Ledger did for Joker, with a new and off-beat interpretation that hadn't been done before. I think Jessie was fine, but it just didn't work as intended. I have no gripes with his actions, but he was just too fidgety and cackly for a character who is historically not only cunning, but very cool and controlled with the rare outburst of rage from under the surface. This Lex was a little too unhinged for my taste.

I do think BvS will be remembered more fondly once we've got the whole Man of Steel-BvS-JL1-JL2 plate in the rearview mirror and we can see the big picture. I think a lot of why people had the reaction they did - and it did have some legitimate flaws - was because it was so different than what we expected, having been conditioned on two light-hearted Marvel movies a year for the last few years.

It's a solid pic with really great ideas and a deep core, but some of that was undersold. The way Batman backed down from Superman when Supes said Martha - it wasn't that their moms had the same name; uttering a name very meaningful to him was only what got his attention. Finding out the dying words of this alien was a request to save somebody - his mother, even - showed Batman that this alien was a lot more human than he'd realized. The 'Martha' was only the catalyst, but it was the selfless humanity that Superman displayed at his apparent imminent demise that made Batman stay his hand. The end of the movie only reinforced Superman's selflessness to Batman. There was a lot of depth in these kinds of scenes that I think weren't obvious enough for the general movie-going public. Maye a tighter script would have helped - the actors were all solid, I thought. I think repeat viewings will make people a bit more favorably inclined, even if they don't outright love it or anything. I think it's quite a bit better than reviews gave it credit for, but I'm also wanting to see it again beause there was a *lot* in that movie.

Anyway, yeah.

Looking forward to maybe getting these figures as my first foray into Hot Toys!
 
Exactly, enough of trying to bash this movie, lol. I'd like to hear thoughts on people's reaction to her arms not being posable.

17 POINTS, SEVENTEEN?!?!

Fixed that for you. :lol :duff

Anyway, in what way are they not poseable? Are the arms rubberized, similar to the Gamora and Thor figures?
 
Fixed that for you. :lol :duff

Anyway, in what way are they not poseable? Are the arms rubberized, similar to the Gamora and Thor figures?

just in from the man on the front lines:



although as stated it is only the "prototype" but its seamless beacuse there is no sepration from shoulder to torso, the armpit shows there may be complete lack of movement. Sucks they havent achieved phicen's level of silicone use instead of rubber
 
Well, it is a prototype. So, nothing is final yet. BUT if it ends up looking like that, no shoulder movement, then I wont buy her. I like to play with these, articulation is important to me. But again, this is still being made. I do hope they fix the shoulder as I would love to have this WW in my collection
 
Total speculation on my part, but I suspect that this is a placeholder body while they are working on the actual body. This is a completely new body after all, and Gamora wasn't. I bet they just wanted to get the figure announced while the hype for the movie was still going on, so they used this body (which looks more like a statue than a figure) while they continued development of the actual body. Too soon to tell at this point, but I'm sure they know they'll have a lot of cancellations if they indeed release a figure with immovable shoulders.
 
Total speculation on my part, but I suspect that this is a placeholder body while they are working on the actual body. This is a completely new body after all, and Gamora wasn't. I bet they just wanted to get the figure announced while the hype for the movie was still going on, so they used this body (which looks more like a statue than a figure) while they continued development of the actual body. Too soon to tell at this point, but I'm sure they know they'll have a lot of cancellations if they indeed release a figure with immovable shoulders.

I'm not a fan of seamless bodies – these are after all supposed to be toys, regardless of how detailed or expensive they are.
I don't mind seeing the articulated joints, and feel the arm articulation of these Flirty Girl figures would be better...

fgc-body-collage-in-stock.jpg
 
Total speculation on my part, but I suspect that this is a placeholder body while they are working on the actual body. This is a completely new body after all, and Gamora wasn't. I bet they just wanted to get the figure announced while the hype for the movie was still going on, so they used this body (which looks more like a statue than a figure) while they continued development of the actual body. Too soon to tell at this point, but I'm sure they know they'll have a lot of cancellations if they indeed release a figure with immovable shoulders.

I'd be inclined to concur with this.
 
There's absolutely no way that is the actual (or even close to the actual) body.
It's just a statue that they're using as a placeholder while they figure out how to out-phicen Phicen.
 
I hope DC uses the New 52 costume for next Justice League Movies. So I'll buy that version.
 
I hope DC uses the New 52 costume for next Justice League Movies. So I'll buy that version.

agreed.

i think they will, the new 52 has silver on it, her current one has gold, it would be a nice way to make them very different that way.
 
This figure my most wanted female figure this year..if HT gets those costume details and color RIGHT it will be beyond amazing...
 
Actually, the New 52 is going away and DC's Rebirth is launching this Summer. And the new Wonder Woman costume in the comics looks a lot like the BvS movie one:

7ad58db872bac7d84c63bff78f51484f.jpg
 
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