Hot Toys DX09 - BATMAN - Batman (Michael Keaton) - Specs & Pics

[DiFabio]

Can I ask this or bring this up with you DiFabio since you have a lot of good knowledge:

I always felt Burton's Batman had been Batman for a while, or atleast had been working on his Batman for a while, building the cave, Batmobile, etc...and the fact his Wayne is a little older than Nolan's.

But in Nolan's world, Wayne is young therefore his Batman is younger and we are only seeing very early stages of Batman. in fact Begins to TDK is supposed to be less than a year, and the entire story of TDK is a week or two, maybe a month at most.

In the novel Batman Begins by Denis O'Neil, after Ras is "killed", Bruce does not put on his Batman suit again for another year. He closes the cave and everything. Then he decides maybe he wants to try it again, see if he can fight crime.

My point to all this is, I always felt Burtons Wayne is very different than Nolan's Wayne, Burtons is more mature adult but Nolan's is sort of a lost soul, lost his childhood and youth and is still much a kid deep down.

I was waiting for a question and didn't quite get one. Clarify yourself my good man!

 

[Ausfan]

Burton is so hit or miss with me. He is either brilliant or amazing, or bloody awful...Here is how I rank his

AMAZING:
Ed Wood (one of my favorite All time movies!!)
Beetlejuice
Batman 89
Edward Scissorhands
Nightmare Before Christmas (but he was producer not director)

GOOD:
Alice in Wonderland
Sweeney Todd
Big Fish
Sleepy Hollow
Corpse Bride
Pee Wees Big Adventure
James & Giant Peach (but he was producer not director)

COULD OF BEEN BETTER:
Batman Returns

BLOODY AWFUL:
Planet of the Apes
Mars Attacks (a lot of people liked it, but I couldnt stand it)
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

I think you are being very generous!!


Beetlejuice
Batman 89
Nightmare Before Christmas
Big Fish
Batman Returns

Gold!!

And the rest are pretty average and then some are complete rubbish.

But in saying that he is a very very talented man but should stop making the same film over and over again and with the same palette and also with Johnny Depp.

 

[Hydeous]

I think you are being very generous!!


Beetlejuice
Batman 89
Nightmare Before Christmas
Big Fish
Batman Returns

Gold!!

And the rest are pretty average and then some are complete rubbish.

But in saying that he is a very very talented man but should stop making the same film over and over again and with the same palette and also with Johnny Depp.

I kinda agree with this list more.

and if i may add to the list, Edward Scissorhands.

Just POed 1 more set of Bats and Joker

 

[Sachiel]

hell even the ToyBiz and Dark Knight Collection toys kick the ____ out of the Begins garbage toys kids got today

They're basically the same crap.

OK, I need to know... where the hell is this from?

 

[Hellz Manik]

thought i would share this but i went to an auto museum and they had the batmobile with actual keaton batman suit

 

[Lookin4Precious]

My Personal Burton Break-Down:

Top Tier:
Pee-Wee
Beetlejuice
Batman
Edward Scissorhands
Batman Returns
Nightmare Before Christmas (yes.. it is a Burton film..)
Ed Wood
Mars Attacks! (LOVE IT)
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street

Second Tier:
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Corpse Bride

Bottom Tier:
Charlie and The Chocolate Factory
Alice In Wonderland

No Mans Land:
Planet of the Apes

 

[Guinnessfan]

^^^ autobotjohn custom? JK ...the car looks amazing btw!

 

[Hellz Manik]

^^^ autobotjohn custom? JK ...the car looks amazing btw!

I couldnt agree with you more, it did not look that great...just wait till i do mine...

 

[Hydeous]

not liking the Keaton sculpt at all.

 

[sithlord13]

No Mans Land:
Planet of the Apes

Really an incredibly bad film

 

[the Doctor]

i ordered 2 89 bats,one for the mobile and one for batwing if made.

with the amount of sales from these amazing figures i'm sure it would be worth there while making a batwing.

The only thing i would have liked included with HT bats is an alternate cape so you can display over the shoulders like this

 

[Hydeous]

i ordered 2 89 bats,one for the mobile and one for batwing if made.

with the amount of sales from these amazing figures i'm sure it would be worth there while making a batwing.

The only thing i would have liked included with HT bats is an alternate cape so you can display over the shoulders like this

Knowing HT, the cape will probably come with the Batwing or Batmobile

 

[Spanbauer]

Arg. Joker just got his third photoshoot, ...and where? Is the Batman?

I really want them to hand the figure off to a second photographer like they have with Joker, so that we might see him with more of his accessories in-hand and maybe find out if the figure can even bend his legs.

 

[DarkMagic]

Why would he want to do those? He's not a fan of the comics or characters? Wait, isn't that a contradiction?

Must have been the money.

Yes, it IS a contradiction, but it's Burton contradicting himself. I'm just quoting the guy. He said he's not interested in sequels (and it shows--besides Batman, what movie of his has he ever done a sequel of)...AND...he said he only did Batman Returns because he was interested in the new characters. Which could bring me to another common criticism of the pre-Nolan Batman movies (not just blaming Burton, Schumacher is guilty of this too)--and that is putting too much focus on the villains and not enough on the main character. Repeatedly in this thread people have said "We don't need to be 'spoon-fed' Batman's origin story"...then why do we get to know so much about pre-Joker Jack Napier? Wait, which one is the main character again?

And about the "it must be about the money" thing. I mentioned that because you first implied that it's ok that Burton doesn't care about the comics character--for some it's "a job to do."

You think everyone that's part of these films enjoys the source, i.e. comics? They have a job to do and a story to tell.

Which is it? In your opinion, does Burton respect the source material, or was it a job for him to do? It COULD be both...(see Nolan) except for the fact that Burton HIMSELF said he doesn't care about the comic-book material. Again:

"My impulse was, I said to myself, "____ this bull____!" This is comic-book material. I thought, you know, who really cares? But it was a mistake. It went too far." - Tim Burton

Expletives are visible in the actual quote, but it's pretty easy to guess what they were. That's not me interpreting what he meant, those are the man's own words.

So what I was saying, is that if it is just a job to him (as you suggested---I'm sure you'll correct me if that is not what you meant), WB throwing money at him would only help motivate to do a sequel.

You disagree about WHAT?

I actually thought this part was the clearest thing in my post. I said:

Burton even said that he believes Bruce Wayne putting on the batsuit was a guy "trying to become something he's not."

And then you said that is not what Burton said. And then I linked to the direct quote proving, yes, he did say that. So I disagreed.

That the point of Batman isn't about the imagery, isn't about striking fear into criminals, or appearing to be inhuman or supernatural?

That IS what it's all about.

The cowl, the cape, the image. Without it, Batman isn't Batman.

- You bring up one scene where Bruce Wayne beats up a bunch of asians at a prison but I seem to recall him getting carried away to solitary confinement, defeated.

Are we talking about the same movie? Anyone else feel free to chime in here. When Bruce fought those seven guys in the prison, did the scene end with Bruce or those seven guys groaning and writhing in pain? Bruce isn't "defeated" as you claim, he was put into solitary confinement for "protection"...and not his protection...remember now?

- In Mask of the Phantasm, the group of criminals think he's a joke. They get a few punches in and almost get away and Bruce gets injured because they didn't fear him.

Yes...

- In the comics he goes out to a sleazy part of town, tries to stop a pimp and a prostitute gets knife happy, he gets beat down, and cops shoot him. He flees and gets inspiration while he's close to bleeding to death.

and YES...this is from Year One. (I am agreeing with you...to a point). Like I said before, the suit helps strike fear and intimidate---I am NOT disputing that.

- Like wise, in Batman '89 Bruce stands up to the Joker (who is surrounded by muscle with weapons by the way) and gets shot.

And that's why I have a problem with this scene. What's the point of it? Is it to show how Bruce Wayne without the batsuit, is completely ineffective at taking on criminals? And this is different than the examples you sight above of batsuit-less Wayne from Mask of the Phantasm and Year One...he is at least partly effective in those---he actually lands some hits before getting his ass kicked. Don't try to excuse it by saying he's "surrounded by muscle with guns"---I thought this was "fantasy" and not supposed to necessarily be realistic? Why couldn't he kick all of their asses? As I said before, all the scene does is show his resourcefulness at protecting himself with the metal tray. But how does shielding himself and going "nuts" help Vicky? It doesn't. The only reason she isn't harmed in that scene is because the Joker doesn't feel like it at the moment.

Yeah, Bruce Wayne is a tough guy, that's because he is Batman. BUT the suit, the costume, whatever completes the persona. I thought this was common knowledge?

Again, I am in COMPLETE agreement with you on this point. Bruce Wayne can hold his own in a fight even without the batsuit...and costume certain helps complete the persona (not to mention give him a tactical advantage---ie armor, weapons)

You're making Bruce Wayne seem like he doesn't need the suit, when in fact, he does. It's stupid. That's literally half of what Batman is about, like it or not. Yeah, Wayne has the abilities without the suit and the suit is only one aspect that defines Batman but that image is the most important aspect. So what's your end game? That because we don't see the Keaton Bruce Wayne fight in hand to hand combat that he can't do it? Whaaaaaaat? He can fight as Batman, he can threaten the Joker as Bruce Wayne but he can't fight, as Bruce Wayne? Yet he tries?

I am saying that there was no effort by Burton to show that his Bruce Wayne could kick some ass (or even try to) if he wasn't protected by 40 pounds of rubber. He does show us that he's pretty good at getting shot though.

I think you're taking that waaaaay out of context. Look at what he said right there. "He doesn't look like Arnold Schwarzenegger" (does Kilmer, Clooney or Bale?) and "He's trying to create an image for imself, he's trying to become something he's not."

What is he trying to become Dark Magic? Certainly not Arnold Schwarzenegger.

I don't think Bruce Wayne is a bat, is he? Sure you could say that could be reaching, but then again I could say the same of you.

And you are taking it way too literally. None of the Batman actors look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, but it was clear to me, that quote was mentioning Schwarzenegger as hyperbole. When someone says "She's no Einstein" of course they don't literally mean that because that statement is so obvious it goes without saying. It means, "she's not a genius". In this case, he is clearly saying Keaton isn't a big guy, his body type isn't visually believable as Batman, so we're going to use the fake muscles on the suit to create that appearance. Do you still think I'm reaching when I say that's what he meant? Go ahead, read the rest of the article.

“I imagined it was going to be a 6’ 4” hunk with a dimpled chin,” said Ringwood. “Michael Keaton is many things, but one thing he is not is a 6’ 4” hunk. It was interesting casting – but because he is average height and a small-built guy, it was a surprise and a bit scary for me. I wasn’t sure how to interpret it." - Bob Ringwood, costume designer

“The toughest thing was making him look good,” recalled Burton. “We’d try all sorts of movements. Then we’d say, ‘How about changing your voice?’ Sometimes Michael really looked like a kid with a towel around his neck. The outtakes from this film look like a bad Italian gladiator movie.”

If you're implying that it's also about being a "symbol of hope" and an image about getting good people to rally together to do the right thing, you're wrong. Don't even give the Nolan films as an example, because Batman fails miserably in that department, and even acknowledges that. Not only does his image inspire madness he fully admits that he isn't a symbol of hope. He disregards it completely. Bruce Wayne and Gotham's "light" and "symbol" is a guy that attempted to kill an innocent kid, what's that say?

Thanks, but being a symbol of hope was not the direction I was going in at all.

Bruce Wayne can't do the things Batman can. That's the point. That's why there is the philanthropic side of Bruce Wayne, that's something Batman can't do.

Wow, that sounds suspiciously like:

In the Nolan movies, just as in the comics, Batman (the real persona) comes to the realization that it's helpful to his mission to maintain the Bruce Wayne public image. Not because it's who he is, but because it (1) allows him to strategically work on cleaning up the city on another front--(like backing a D.A. with the courage to take on organized crime)--rather than just brutishly kicking thugs faces in, and (2) helps throw off suspicion about his identity.

Which I said in response to you:

In his spare time he doesn't even bother with his alterego's public image he just sits in his gigantic mansion waiting to be needed, waiting for the signal to go up and brooding about how he's the only one that can make a difference, cause, well he's Batman.

So now you agree with me? Which is your position on the matter man, because I think you just switched it on us? Does or doesn't Batman need to maintain the Bruce Wayne public image?

Batman Forever showed us Kilmer Bruce Wayne (not Batman) beating the crap out of 20 thugs and winning. It takes a SHOT to the FACE to stop him. Not Asian soldiers, not a pimp, not a prostitute with a knife. A bullet to the face.

Yes, there are many things I dislike about Batman Forever, but at least Schumacher showed us a Bruce Wayne who could fight. You can't give Batman '89 credit for that interpretation. It's a different movie!

Again, what's your point?

Bale Batman is the toughest of em all? They're ALL the same character. If the script called for Keaton Bruce to fight a million extraterrestrial aliens, then the film would depict just that, Bruce Wayne fighting a million extraterrestrial aliens.

I disagree that it is all the same character. In fact, if it was all the same character, we wouldn't even be debating this. Batman is interpreted differently by different writers, directors, and actors over the years. Are you honestly saying Christian Bale's Batman is the same as Adam West's Batman because they are both from the same comic book character? The interpretation of the character is what matter's the most to me, not just that they call him "Bruce Wayne". If WB puts Vern Troyer in a mini-me sized batsuit and says he's "Bruce Wayne" and makes a movie out of it, would you accept that as the part of "ALL the same character"?

I guess he doesn't have a personality at the Wayne Manor event when he's making digs at Alexander Knox and being a sarcastic, son of a _____. I guess we never see him upset over the fact that his parents were taken from him in is youth. I guess we never see any other side of his character like when he's investigating looking through files and talking with Alfred.

There's just Bat-Mike and Brooding Mike, my mistake.

To be fair, you are right on this point. Keaton's Wayne did have several sides to his character besides just brooding, BUT I still maintain he wasn't convincing as a fighter without the batsuit. That is ONE important aspect of the character that his Wayne was missing. I am not blaming him, he didn't cast, write or direct the movie. Like you said, he can only do what is in the script...and that aspect of the character was lacking from the script.

And yes, you could fool me that you actually have any interest in this figure at all.

I could say I appreciate Killer Klowns from Outer space for what it is but would that mean I actually care that much about it and want to own figures of it. NO.

Well, I've said before that this movie holds nostalgic value for me, and I love it's art direction and visuals. I'm an artist, and buried deep in the Batmobile thread is a post that shows how obsessed I am with the design of the car. Y'know, it is possible to heavily criticise a movie's direction, plot, and even casting, and still be a huge fan of the visual aspect of it's production design, including 1/6 representations of the actors in costume.

It's clear that this movie is very special to you, and I hope you aren't taking this debate personally. But you seem to be questioning whether or not I like the visual things I say I like about the movie. That stuff can't really be argued, and its kind of a futile effort for me to attempt to convince you or anyone that I am a fan of them just because I say I am. Either you believe me or you don't. Take it easy man.

 

[jayveeeusebio]

More Depp coming, hes doing Dark Shadows with him.

Hope that movie will be great!

 

[MaulFan]

i ordered 2 89 bats,one for the mobile and one for batwing if made.

with the amount of sales from these amazing figures i'm sure it would be worth there while making a batwing.

The only thing i would have liked included with HT bats is an alternate cape so you can display over the shoulders like this

Who's to say the cape can't do that, could be the figure shoulders are made for articulation but don't look so great so HT kept them covered in the photos.

 

[octo]

Just to chime in here I was watching returns on blue ray the other day. I can't remember if it was the special features or the commentary with Burton but he says the only reason he did a second Batman is because the suits at WB gave him full creative controll. They told him it was a Burton film as opposed to the 89 Batman being a Batman film.

Burton also said after filming Returns there was a brief discussion of him doing a third movie. He claims he was interested but got the feeling that WB didn't really want him directing another Batman film.

 

[DiFabio]

Arg. Joker just got his third photoshoot, ...and where? Is the Batman?

I really want them to hand the figure off to a second photographer like they have with Joker, so that we might see him with more of his accessories in-hand and maybe find out if the figure can even bend his legs.

I wouldn't worry about the articulation. Other than head movement, I'm sure it will be more poseable than the DX 02 TDK Batman. His arms already outstretch much farther than the 02 TDK ever could. The specs state 30 points of articulation so I'm sure those legs bend. In fact, they are posed a bit in some pics,

What I'd like to see are more elaborate poses with different accessories though. Like the figure using a batarang, or the expendable gauntlet, or talking into the Batmobile device, something different.

Like you said, it would be nice if this figure gets the treatment that the Joker has gotten, pics galore.

 

[thenammagazine]

Why are the Nolan fanboys still trolling the '89 thread? You have like 300 other threads you can high-five in.

 

[Spanbauer]

What I'd like to see are more elaborate poses with different accessories though. Like the figure using a batarang, or the expendable gauntlet, or talking into the Batmobile device, something different.

Like you said, it would be nice if this figure gets the treatment that the Joker has gotten, pics galore.

precise.