1/6 Hot Toys - MMS 320 - Star Wars Ep.VII - Kylo Ren

[KerotanFrog]

Nothing to do with the Plagueis theory, but that is the Jedi interpretation of the prophecy.

One that I really like is that "to bring balance" doesn't mean helping the light side.
When the Jedi were supreme, the Sith in hiding and the light prevailing, he did brought balance by becoming Vader, joining the dark side and helping destroy the Jedi.
When the Sith were supreme, the empire absolute and the dark side prevailing, he again brought balance by killing Palpatine and saving Luke.

Not sure if it matters now, but in the Plagueis book, Plagueis and Sidious actually pooled their strength together to tip the balance of the force out of balance towards the dark side to allow Palpatine to rise through political power without drawing particular attention from the Jedi. It was at this point the living force seemingly acted against them and created Anakin Skywalker to subvert them and eventually bring balance. After I read this I understood what the balance of the force meant in the PT. There needs to be both light and dark in equal measure.

 

[Yorick]

This is what I thought, but then you have people coming out and directly dismissing this Plagueis theory. But for all we know it could just be deflecting. It honestly makes a lot of sense and would tie all the trilogies together. And if the theory is not true, then why is Snoke's track the same as the Plagueis one from ROTS. I refuse to believe it's just a happy coincidence.

To tell you the truth, when I first heard of this idea (I have not read the theory yet, just heard "what if Snoke is Plagueis"), I liked it a lot. But I don't try anymore to predict what will happen in series and movies.

All I can tell is that, being well scripted, I would enjoy it a lot, since it would connect all trilogies.

But if it's not, and ends up being a cool development, I will like it too.

 

[KerotanFrog]

Yeah I like it a lot too, despite the lack of popularity it has in this thread.

Having Snoke be some other dark side user that nobody has heard of, who wasn't detected by Sidious, and didn't do anything for over 70 years seems more convenient and lazy than it being Plagueis biding his time and waiting for his apprentice to eventually fail. I think it could end up being very well done if they choose to go this route.

 

[SNIKT1950]

Having Snoke be some other dark side user that nobody has heard of, who wasn't detected by Sidious, and didn't do anything for over 70 years seems more convenient and lazy than it being Plagueis biding his time and waiting for his apprentice to eventually fail. I think it could end up being very well done if they choose to go this route.

This.

Also, most of the people that don't like the idea of Plagueis in the new films were the same people who claimed the word "Sith" would never be mentioned in TFA and that the prequels wouldn't be referenced in any way.

They're all hating life right now because Snoke being Plagueis (a Sith) is definitely a possibility at this point and Hayden Christensen will probably show up in Episode VIII as Anakin's ghost (the art of TFA book already shows how they'll probably have him look).

 

[xenowolf]

Yeah I like it a lot too, despite the lack of popularity it has in this thread.

Having Snoke be some other dark side user that nobody has heard of, who wasn't detected by Sidious, and didn't do anything for over 70 years seems more convenient and lazy than it being Plagueis biding his time and waiting for his apprentice to eventually fail. I think it could end up being very well done if they choose to go this route.

I actually like this idea too and was kind of excited the first time I heard it. Unfortunately it has been denied by JJ and he stated that it was to early to talk story but that "no" it's not plagueis, he has lied before to protect story tho so who knows.

 

[Cagoda]

Nothing to do with the Plagueis theory, but that is the Jedi interpretation of the prophecy.

One that I really like is that "to bring balance" doesn't mean helping the light side.
When the Jedi were supreme, the Sith in hiding and the light prevailing, he did brought balance by becoming Vader, joining the dark side and helping destroy the Jedi.
When the Sith were supreme, the empire absolute and the dark side prevailing, he again brought balance by killing Palpatine and saving Luke.

Yeah I always liked that too. Anakin destroys the Jedi and Sith so the Force is completely balanced haha. Unbalanced if there is too much light also.

I don't mind Snoke being Plagueis, and could make sense. I just think it would negate much of Anakin's story if not done right. But then again official statements keep saying he's an entirely new character.

 

[SNIKT1950]

Not sure if it matters now, but in the Plagueis book, Plagueis and Sidious actually pooled their strength together to tip the balance of the force out of balance towards the dark side to allow Palpatine to rise through political power without drawing particular attention from the Jedi. It was at this point the living force seemingly acted against them and created Anakin Skywalker to subvert them and eventually bring balance. After I read this I understood what the balance of the force meant in the PT. There needs to be both light and dark in equal measure.

The book is no longer canon - and that is yet more evidence of Plagueis' presence in the new films. Why? Because if Disney/Lucasfilm threw the Plagueis book out of canon, they should have done the same with the Tarkin book - but didn't.

Its not a random move on their part. Kasdan, Abrams & Johnson probably didn't like the novel's take on the character and wanted the freedom to craft him their own way.

 

[KerotanFrog]

This.

Also, most of the people that don't like the idea of Plagueis in the new films were the same people who claimed the word "Sith" would never be mentioned in TFA and that the prequels wouldn't be referenced in any way.

They're all hating life right now because Snoke being Plagueis (a Sith) is definitely a possibility at this point and Hayden Christensen will probably show up in Episode VIII as Anakin's ghost (the art of TFA book already shows how they'll probably have him look).

I'm glad they acknowledged the Sith, if even for a moment. And there was a huge reference to the PT when Ren suggests Snoke use a clone army again! I haven't seen the artbook yet, but I'd be happy to see Hayden again. He's a good actor and had to deal with some iffy lines, but he played Anakin really well. People need to chill with the salt. All of the Star Wars movies have had some cheese dialogue, but it doesn't detract from the overall story.

 

[Tom Day]

I like the thought of him being Plagueis, but equally he doesn't have to be anyone - Palpatine had no backstory in the OT.

 

[SNIKT1950]

I'm glad they acknowledged the Sith, if even for a moment. And there was a huge reference to the PT when Ren suggests Snoke use a clone army again! I haven't seen the artbook yet, but I'd be happy to see Hayden again. He's a good actor and had to deal with some iffy lines, but he played Anakin really well. People need to chill with the salt. All of the Star Wars movies have had some cheese dialogue, but it doesn't detract from the overall story.

 

[KerotanFrog]

The book is no longer canon - and that is yet more evidence of Plagueis' presence in the new films. Why? Because if Disney/Lucasfilm threw the Plagueis book out of canon, they should have done the same with the Tarkin book - but didn't.

Its not a random move on their part. Kasdan, Abrams & Johnson probably didn't like the novel's take on the character and wanted the freedom to craft him their own way.

You have a point, but the Tarkin book was a part of their new canon. And even if the Plagueis book isn't canon, it's my favorite SW book and one of James Luceno's best. Until they specifically come out and change the events of Palpatine's rise leading up to TPM, then the book is as good as canon to me. It provides so much insight into the time period and the succession of Sith.

 

[KerotanFrog]

Woah this is huge! How come nobody is talking about this?? That's an awesome design!

 

[SNIKT1950]

Woah this is huge! How come nobody is talking about this?? That's an awesome design!

Too many PT haters online. Thank God Kathleen Kennedy, Bryan Burk, JJ Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan & Rian Johnson have no issue with the PT and will continue to make it a part of the new trilogy.

Seeing that Hayden/Anakin concept art and finding out about Ewan McGregor's cameo in TFA were the best surprises to come after seeing the film.

 

[KerotanFrog]

Too many PT haters online. Thank God Kathleen Kennedy, Bryan Burk, JJ Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan & Rian Johnson have no issue with the PT and will continue to make it a part of the new trilogy.

Seeing that Hayden/Anakin concept art and finding out about Ewan McGregor's cameo in TFA were the best surprises to come after seeing the film.

Yes I'm glad they embrace "a larger view" of Star Wars.

And hold on a sec. What cameo...? Do you mean part of Rey's vision?

But that Hayden image has me even more hyped for VIII. Also saw Jack Bauer say in the spoiler thread that there's a ROTS Anakin in the works at HT, so Hayden having a role in VIII makes even more sense.

 

[momaw]

-Kylo says to Han "The Supreme Leader is wise."

-Kylo threatens Hux by saying maybe Leader Snoke should order the use of clones again.

Anakin called Papatine wise on several occasions.

Except again was not part of the line you quote.

Most of what is presented as evidence is very thin and reeks of confirmation bias.



I'm about a quarter of the way through the novalisation and honestly I am very disappointed with it. ADF gets the tone and intention of so many scenes completely wrong as to change them for the worse. The worst example is the scene where Plut wants to buy BB8 from Rey. In the movie she is tempted for less than a second and that comes more from having never seen that many portions in her life, but in the book she is happy to sell him and gets into serious negotiations to the point she actually shuts BB8 off to silence his protests and only at the last second changes her mind. That change goes to the core of who Rey is and I hated it. The novalisation has botched some of the characters so badly for me I can't believe any of the extraneous stuff not in the movie is in fact true.

 

[Lejuan]

Too many PT haters online. Thank God Kathleen Kennedy, Bryan Burk, JJ Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan & Rian Johnson have no issue with the PT and will continue to make it a part of the new trilogy.

Seeing that Hayden/Anakin concept art and finding out about Ewan McGregor's cameo in TFA were the best surprises to come after seeing the film.

No issue with the PT? How do you figure that? Maybe I wasn't watching closely enough, but I thought TFA effectively whitewashed the PT from SW history and even had a jibe at the OT revisionism.

 

[SNIKT1950]

No issue with the PT? How do you figure that? Maybe I wasn't watching closely enough, but I thought TFA effectively whitewashed the PT from SW history and even had a jibe at the OT revisionism.

You weren't watching close enough. If anything it made a point to bring up PT elements that were never present in the OT.

Honestly, Force ghost Hayden/Anakin showing up in VIII will be like blunt force trauma to anyone who hoped Lucasfilm would ignore the PT with their new trilogy (a sentiment that never made any sense to begin with).

 

[IrishJedi]

Thank God Kathleen Kennedy, JJ Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan & Rian Johnson have no issue with the PT.

Oh, man...

 

[wadeit0ut]

The book is no longer canon - and that is yet more evidence of Plagueis' presence in the new films. Why? Because if Disney/Lucasfilm threw the Plagueis book out of canon, they should have done the same with the Tarkin book - but didn't.

Its not a random move on their part. Kasdan, Abrams & Johnson probably didn't like the novel's take on the character and wanted the freedom to craft him their own way.

They didn't THROW OUT the Plagueis book. They said anything outside of the Movies/Clone Wars was not canon. That's it. The Tarkin book was released AFTER the story group was formed.

If you actually read my last post and still think there is a chance Snoke is Plagueis...yikes.

Woah this is huge! How come nobody is talking about this?? That's an awesome design!

1) This isn't Episode 8 concept. This was from the earlier draft of the script that was completely canned.

2) It doesn't even make sense. Why would a young Anakin force ghost have cybernetics on his face...

 

[Lejuan]

You weren't watching close enough. If anything it made a point to bring up PT elements that were never present in the OT.

Honestly, Force ghost Hayden/Anakin showing up in VIII will be like blunt force trauma to anyone who hoped Lucasfilm would ignore the PT with their new trilogy (a sentiment that never made any sense to begin with).

What made the PT so abominably awful for many was the bad storytelling. I don't think the PT-haters care about the treatment of canon so long as it's presented/framed/delivered well.

I'm hoping for a Jar-Jar cameo. I know one of the directors will slip him in somewhere.