1/6 Hot Toys - MMS274 - TDKR - John Blake with Bat-Signal 1/6th scale Collectible Set

[Russell1982]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Yeah, and Talia too even though she was spewing the same kind of nonsense that Ra's did right to his face.

That's what I mean. I liked the characterization from the Dark Knight that was keeping tabs on Rachel and Dent. The one that had Alfred scared that Bruce was "watching him on his day off". The one that thought the sonar device was "beautiful". The one that trumped the Joker by the end after underestimating him in the beginning of the film. That was "Batman" to me, not the guy in TDKR.

The difference between Bruce/Batman in Dark Knight vs. what we got in TDKR is like light and day, and I prefer the former personally. With TDKR it's like I'm seeing a completely different version of the character which is a shame. By the end of the Dark Knight, it's like he finally got his "Batman" status at that point. The year one, naive stages for Wayne are over and we got a full fledged Batman that has come to terms of what his mission means. Then with TDKR they just go backwards and he's doing the same crap over again (underestimating Bane, being fooled by another "Al Ghul", etc. etc.)

This was one of my biggest disappointments with TDKR. We had the whole origin in begins, in TDK he's a bit more established but still learning, then with TDKR I expected a fully fledged Batman, at the top of his game. But instead, as you said, we go backwards and get another movie with hardly any Batman and him still learning stuff and acting like he's still fairly amateur.

I didn't hate TDKR but I have a lot of issues with it, and that's one of them. I really think they should have had Bruce still operating as Batman from the beginning, and if they wanted the whole hermit thing have him retreating into his Batman persona more permanently and not showing his face as Bruce Wayne. Them having Alfred trying to get him to acknowledge both sides of his life. Then we could have still had Batman operating in the shadows, having to evade the police, and at the top of his game now.

But alas, we didn't. What's done is done and some people obviously love it and other hate it. I'm somewhere in the middle. And just to stay on topic, as for Blake, I found him very meh. He was an ok character, nothing terrible, but I hated the Robin reference.

 

[Russell1982]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Yeah, when I first heard the 8 year gap it didn't bother me, but having him out of action for all that time and then leaving at the end again kind of ruined it for me. I think there was some cool stuff in Rises and some interesting ideas but ultimately, like you, I feel it was execute poorly. I'd have been fine with the hermit thing if it was more that Bruce Wayne was seen as a hermit that nobody sees anymore, but purely because he was Batman all the time, sleeping in the cave all day then going back out every night jumping off rooftops and fighting every piece of crime he could find. I'd also have much preferred it if they ended with Bruce accepting both parts of his life and coming to terms with the fact that he'll always be Batman but can also try and have a life as Bruce Wayne too, as opposed to quitting. But if he must quit the. I'd have preferred they handled the rest of the movie differently, something akin to what we've said maybe.

 

[Malgus]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Bruce seemed like a pretty trusting guy in this movie.

Afterall he also trusted Catwoman with the Batpod even though up to that point she had done apsolutly nothing but screw him over. And after one kiss (which also came out of nowhere) and one time where she chose not to try and kill him (is that really the baseline we are using for love these days?) he is ready to run off and spend the rest of his life with this woman who is essentially a complete stranger. And a somewhat sketchy one at that.

That stupid kiss proved to me Nolan was no different than the typical hollywod director following the typic hollywood rules. The rules seem to indicate they MUST have someone in the movie for the for the star/hero to kiss regardless or how stupid and improbable. People do not go around kissing each other at the drop of a hat like hollywood portrays. Watching the movie I got the impression the catwoman character was put in simply to to give the hero someone to kiss.

 

[DarkMagic]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

That stupid kiss proved to me Nolan was no different than the typical hollywod director following the typic hollywood rules. The rules seem to indicate they MUST have someone in the movie for the for the star/hero to kiss regardless or how stupid and improbable. People do not go around kissing each other at the drop of a hat like hollywood portrays. Watching the movie I got the impression the catwoman character was put in simply to to give the hero someone to kiss.

But it wasn't just at the drop of a hat though. At that point, Selina had grown to the point that she wasn't just looking out for herself anymore. She could've easily taken the Bat-pod and skipped town after clearing the tunnel, just like she said she was going to. Instead, she willingly comes back--into what she believes is almost certain death--to find Bruce (and save him just in time) and go into combat against what are basically mini TANKS while on a souped-up motorcycle that leaves her totally exposed without armor protection. At that point in the movie, she knew there was very little chance of success, but had resolved to die fighting by Batman's side anyway. This is also why I believe Bruce trusting her enough to spend the rest of his life with her is not so far fetched. Sure, at the beginning she is just a crook looking out for herself (and it was clear from the start it wasn't because she was EVIL, but because she was SCARED about what would happen to her if she resisted Bane). By the end, she overcame that fear and concern for just herself, and was willing to die to help Batman.

As for the kiss, as far as she knew at the time, it was the last time she was going to see the man she was willing to give her life for---right before he was going to die to save millions of people (she believed). Why wouldn't she kiss him in a moment like that?

 

[dw316]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

^^^

 

[Maglor]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

I think Blake needed his own movie to watch his development. By his own movie, I mean a Batman movie where his character arc was the main focus. TDKR had Batman's exit as well as Blake entrance and it was a little too rushed. I, for one, was left wondering how the hell Blake was going to survive even a day trying to be Batman? Batman sees Blake, gives him enough to take over, and then retires in another story (even thought I hate the retiring part).

The way it happened seemed kind of lame for Bruce to start this whole Batman thing, complain the whole time, then dump the whole responsibility on a guy who honestly wasn't ready for it. Dent is reasonable because he had legal power, but how is Blake a viable option? A somewhat useful ally sure? But Batman's heir? Replacement? Legacy? I just don't see it. I think I finally found what bothers me so much about that ending.

How do you know that Blake didn't take the recorces Bruce gave him and take a number of years to train in much the same way Bruce himself did? That's what I assume happens. It's not like he goes out that same day and starts being Batman instantly.

And one could even entertain the idea that Bruce comes back to Gotham in disguise once things cool down and trains Blake himself. Seems unlikely, but the ending is ambiguous enough to allow thoughts like that.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Give the guy a break his ex got burned to a crisp. He needed his iron.

 

[xenowolf]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

The difference between Bruce/Batman in Dark Knight vs. what we got in TDKR is like light and day, and I prefer the former personally. With TDKR it's like I'm seeing a completely different version of the character which is a shame. By the end of the Dark Knight, it's like he finally got his "Batman" status at that point. The year one, naive stages for Wayne are over and we got a full fledged Batman that has come to terms of what his mission means. Then with TDKR they just go backwards and he's doing the same crap over again (underestimating Bane, being fooled by another "Al Ghul", etc. etc.)

I understand that you prefer the dark knight batman, I do to but this isn't a fairy tale it's the sad story of a hero who had to sacrifice himself and sometimes those he loved in order to stop evil from taking over gothem. Of course Bruce/batman was extremely different, he had lost the love of his life for which he probly blamed himself and his failure to defeat the joker in time, anyone who has experienced that kind of loss knows that it can destroy you, and the city he lived to protect wanted his blood. His head wasn't right from his broken heart and he was out of practice on top of that. So for him to tape up all his injuries and shake himself out of his depression and take on bane (an absolute beast) and the league of shadows (a group that has destroyed entire civilizations without them knowing) is pretty amazing and naturally he will be beaten and fooled by them, but he won in the end. It's called the dark knight rises for a reason, and it was a perfect end to a perfect trilogy IMO.

 

[Maglor]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Good post. I don't have the energy to defend the trilogy anymore, but I'm glad some still do.

 

[xenowolf]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

At the end of the dark knight, batman was motivated to stop the joker from hurting anyone else so he pushed down his pain until the job was done and the city was safe, once all the criminals were locked up he had time to dwell in his grief and it consumed him and he lost himself and didn't have the batman outlet to channel his grief thru and heal himself thru helping others because there was no crime to fight. It wasn't till later in the dark knight rises when Alfred smacks some sense into him and tells him that Rachel picked dent that he begins to get himself back together. You seemed to have missed many of the details Nolan laid out in his amazing story, the movie was called the dark knight rises because batman was destroyed at the beginning and was brought back to his former glory.

 

[xenowolf]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

The dent act and the fear of batman is why there was no crime, it makes perfect sense and they even made jokes at the beginning of the dark knight rises that the cops had nothing to do and were bored. It wasn't until bane and the league of shadows came back that crime resurfaced. Also Rachel was his one and only love and hope for a normal life, he had asked her if she still meant what she said that if he was done with batman they would be together and they kissed while Rachel was with dent, Bruce never found out she chose dent till later in tdkr because alfredbvurned the letter. This is a pointless debate, we clearly disagree on these films. I understand and love the story Christopher Nolan made and you don't and that's fine, to each their own.

 

[Mike86]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

While there probably was still crime I assumed that The Dent Act put an end to most organized crime.

 

[xenowolf]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

While there probably was still crime I assumed that The Dent Act put an end to most organized crime.

Of course there would still be some petty crime but nothing the bored police couldn't handle, and with the police hunting batman it would be possibly damaging to the police or the city for batman to go out to stop petty crime.

 

[xenowolf]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Nolan has told the best, most interesting, most exciting, most realistic batman story to date. Every new writer takes a different view of a character and gives their own story of what they want for that character. There are a million comic fanboys who wanted something different and i thank god every day that they didn't get what they wanted

 

[Maglor]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Lots of words.

 

[Mike86]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Organized crime as in the mob, yeah, I stated that in my post. By the Dark Knight, the mob is pretty much dead.

The Joker isn't though. The freak element that he alluded to in the interrogation scene that began with the likes of Dent being turned in a matter of days didn't though. Or the Joker's pull of psychotic followers. That's not even taking into account rapists, muggers (like the type that killed Bruce's parents) or con artists like Selina Kyle. I wouldn't say that's "petty crime". I'm not sure if people noticed, but by the third act of the Dark Knight, even a little bit before that ORGANIZED crime and the mob aren't a threat anymore. There's something far worse out there

I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to. The Joker had his clown thugs who were committing crimes but I assumed that after The Joker was apprehended that the remaining clown thugs were mostly rounded up. There may have been some that got away for a while but it's hard saying for sure as we don't see what happens directly after The Dark Knight. As far as the freak element The Joker referred to I assumed he meant himself, his thugs, and Batman (even though Batman is on the opposite side). Dent was turned because of what The Joker did to him but didn't survive long to cause a lot of havoc really. As far as muggers, rapists, con artists, and other crimes that type of thing will exist no matter what. Bruce being active as Batman or not wouldn't have been able to stop them all. The mob was the city's biggest issue that could be dealt with to an extent and crazies like The Joker may come around once in a while but aren't a common occurrence.

 

[Double J]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

 

[DarkMagic]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Good points DiFabio, but the "getting lost inside this monster" wasn't Batman's reaction to Rachel's death, heck it's not even from TDK, that's a line Alfred uses on Bruce after he sees the Batmobile chase on the news in BB.

Also, Rachel, Alfred, and even the audience knew that she was going to choose to stay with Harvey over Bruce. Just about the only person who didn't know was Bruce. "She was going to wait for me, Alfred. Dent doesn't know, he can never know." It may have been a pipe dream, but he really believed it. That's why it hurts him so much when Alfred tells him the truth.

Of course there is still some crime in Gotham after the events of TDK, but organized crime is broken. Remember Den't plan bringing charges against 529 criminals at once? Top guys make bail, mid-level guys can't afford it and cut deals. 18 months of clean streets (as in mob-free, not absolutely zero crime) is plenty of time to turn things around in Gotham. And then Harvey Dent becomes a martyr/hero on top of all that (or so Gothamites believe) and no one is going stand for the mob intimidation anymore. Batman was meant to inspire Gothamites to stand up for their city....Harvey's "heroic" death did that instead. Batman is not really needed for the everyday crime that every city deals with, the police can handle that-- he was needed to break the extreme crime that Gotham had to deal with.

If Bruce Wayne's goal was to eradicate all instances of crime in Gotham at every level (every murder, every single random mugging), he could have never dreamed of a life with Rachel. "A day when Gotham no longer needs Batman". Of course he did not plan for that impossible goal. He wanted a Gotham that no longer needs Batman because its problems are manageable enough (and its citizens and police are brave enough) to deal with them without his presence.

There is nothing "far worse out there" once once the mob is dealt with, Joker is captured and Harvey dies. Scarecrow was already caught at the beginning of TDK. Zsasz (small potatoes in the Nolanverse since we barely see him) was knocked out and presumably re-arrested in BB. There are precisely zero other rogues introduced or hinted at being on the loose in the Nolanverse after the Joker and Two-Face. Gotham has already seen the worst and survived it...until...Bane.

You're right though that Alfred was wrong that Gotham didn't need Batman to deal with the extreme threat of Bane. It absolutely did. Despite the bravery of a few (Fox, Gordon, Blake and their small group of cops) there was no way they were going to get the bomb out without Batman and his whirly-bat. But he also wasn't 100% wrong either. He warned Bruce that eluding the cops with some new toys from Fox gave him a false sense of confidence when the truth is he wasn't ready to face someone like Bane. Bruce ignored his warning and got his a** kicked.

 

[Azrael23]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Organized crime as in the mob, yeah, I stated that in my post. By the Dark Knight, the mob is pretty much dead.

The Joker isn't though. The freak element that he alluded to in the interrogation scene that began with the likes of Dent being turned in a matter of days didn't though. Or the Joker's pull of psychotic followers. That's not even taking into account rapists, muggers (like the type that killed Bruce's parents) or con artists like Selina Kyle. I wouldn't say that's "petty crime". I'm not sure if people noticed, but by the third act of the Dark Knight, even a little bit before that ORGANIZED crime and the mob aren't a threat anymore. There's something far worse out there.

This about sums up my issue with TDKR too. As a result of Batman's presence and activities in Gotham it basically changes the paradigm of
the type of criminals plaguing Gotham. Batman inadvertently becomes the catalyst to criminals like Joker (freaks) which is what Joker alludes to in the interrogation scene and this is what I thought Nolan was building up to since Begins which (imo) Nolan seems to casually disregard in TDKR.

Personally I found it unfortunate that Nolan's Batman has an active career spanning less than 2 years after spending 7 years in Begins to understand the criminal mind all to simply take down the mob in hindsight. Its even more unfortunate that he retires in his prime and for much longer with no establish rogue gallery in the least bit and a Batcave under Wayne Manor that ultimately serves no purpose prior to Bane showing up in Gotham.

 

[Maglor]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Always love your posts about TDKR Dark Magic.