1/6 Hot Toys - MMS274 - TDKR - John Blake with Bat-Signal 1/6th scale Collectible Set

[Azrael23]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

I won't disagree with you that the entire trilogy has flaws. It doesn't all just fall on The Dark Knight Rises however if you ask me. A lot of the story with The Joker was more than likely altered after Ledger's death. If I remember right the plan was originally to bring him back for the third film but that obviously didn't happen.

I agree. I have a feeling that TDKR would have been an entirely
different film had Ledger been around to reprise his role as Joker.
IMO however TDKR was the weakest film in the trilogy for a number
of reasons.

I'm not sure that I agree with this entirely. Reese may have just been looked at as some attention seeker who was trying to oust the Batman. It's believable enough that he may have been dismissed by a lot of the public and the police as just some loon. If anyone looked into him he probably wouldn't offer any information for fear of his own safety.

Actually DiFabio has a very valid point. Realistically Coleman Reese would have been the first viable lead involving a manhunt for Batman no matter how the public viewed him. Investigators aren't going to simply shrug Reese off as a possible lead if they can possibly apprehend a vigilante wanted for purportedly killing a few cops and the district attorney. Reese also had the schematics for the Tumbler which everyone in Gotham knows belongs to Batman, thus giving his claim weight and with the ensuing investigation would have uncovered those likely to be Batman. Realistically Wayne would have been caught promptly after the events in TDK. Reese was a huge loose end, but Nolan managed to bypass that with Batman's 8 year exile.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

I agree. I have a feeling that TDKR would have been an entirely
different film had Ledger been around to reprise his role as Joker.
IMO however TDKR was the weakest film in the trilogy for a number
of reasons.




Actually DiFabio has a very valid point. Realistically Coleman Reese would have been the first viable lead involving a manhunt for Batman no matter how the public viewed him. Investigators aren't going to simply shrug Reese off as a possible lead if they can possibly apprehend a vigilante wanted for purportedly killing a few cops and the district attorney. Reese also had the schematics for the Tumbler which everyone in Gotham knows belongs to Batman, thus giving his claim weight and with the ensuing investigation would have uncovered those likely to be Batman. Realistically Wayne would have been caught promptly after the events in TDK. Reese was a huge loose end, but Nolan managed to bypass that with Batman's 8 year exile.

Reese "had" the plans, and gave them back to Fox. They show him hand them over in TDK. So Reese had nothing. He had no evidence. And if you say he could have copied it, then your just over thinking it.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Just to 1 up you again

Reese "had" the plans, and gave them back to Fox. They show him hand them over in TDK right after their conversation.. So Reese had nothing. He had no evidence. And if you say he could have copied it, then your just over thinking it.

Your Reese theory...

that will end my Trilogy talk. I LOVVVVVVVVVVE it.....you dont..the end.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

I'm not saying anything about "the plans".

There would be a criminal investigation and man hunt against the vigilante known as the Batman. They're going to have people, ON THAT ****. The first person that's going to be questioned is the guy that, days earlier, stated he knew who the Batman was.

you said "thank you" after the other member mentioned "the plans", meaning you agreed with him. So my comment was to both of you that you have the details wrong.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

I'm not saying anything about "the plans".

There would be a criminal investigation and man hunt against the vigilante known as the Batman. They're going to have people, ON THAT ****. The first person that's going to be questioned is the guy that, days earlier, stated he knew who the Batman was. Even if he doesn't have "teh plans", they'd find out who he worked for.

And that's IGNORING, the Joker (who knows the truth) and Ramirez (the only survivor of Two-Face's attack).

OVERTHINKING IT....the movie was already 152 minutes. If this was a TV series, sure...but they can't show every little thing or it would be a 8 hour film. If you need to see a police investigation on Reese, then idk?

 

[Mike86]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

The Reese thing isn't perfect I'll grant you that. However after Bruce saved him I think that he had an understanding that Bruce has good intentions being Batman. He may have not outed him to the police if he was questioned. Of course it's possible that the police could piece together that as Reese works for Wayne Enterprises that possibly Bruce was Batman or that someone working at Wayne Enterprises was Batman but if Reese wasn't willing to give him up what proof would they have had? The applied sciences division where Bruce gets all his equipment from is off the books. Unless the police had something really solid leading to a person who worked there being Batman I don't see how they could have just investigated basically by only going on a hunch from one person's claim.

 

[cerealkeller]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Holy crap! Good discussion! I agree with both sides to be honest. I wanted the third film I believe DiFabio wanted. I wanted resolution to this manhunt that would surely have happened after TDK. Reese? Ramirez? Major loose ends that the writers just didn't either figure out how to deal with or chose not to. Also, the way I saw the ending to TDK, Batman accepts his fate as the "bad guy" who will take the blame for the murders, furthering his reputation as somebody to be feared, but also that his life is not destined to be normal. This is the fate he chose. Add to that that he is also kind of psychotic. What he is doing is not the normal, healthy way to deal with your childhood trauma. But Batman (that I know) views ALL CRIME as significant. Just because there is not a major freak or threat to the entire city doesn't mean Batman retires. He would still be on patrol, protecting the innocent from even random crime. Because that is how Bruce deals with his pain of losing his parents: he overcompensates by basically killing himself every single day by putting on a costume and fighting crime in all of its forms. And I also wanted the escalation that The Joker spoke of. The shifting of crime from the mob to the freaks. That is what Batman did to the city, his appearance "changed things...forever" and that is a major part of the Batman story told in almost any medium apart I guess from any film adaptation.

But I also have grown to see TDKR as a fitting conclusion to Christopher Nolan's version of Batman. I had to step back and realize that in order to complete this story in 3 parts, certain story elements would have to be missed. I love Bane. I think he was a great menace for Batman. I liked Blake quite a lot also. I liked the idea that Batman would always be protecting the city, whether it was Bruce Wayne or not, which also went back to Begins and what Bruce learned from Ra's way of dealing with immortality. I didn't like the way the last action set piece went down (felt the chase with the bomb was just kind of boring and also wish the final fight with Bane was longer and more impactful), but I still really like the film and much of it has to do with Bane.

But ignoring so many great story elements that could have really went somewhere with the way TDK ended just felt like it was no longer my version of Batman. Between Begins and TDK, it felt like Nolan was building up to the best version of Batman I have ever seen. I wanted him to become lost in his monster after TDK, being hunted by the cops, hunting crime in an unhealthy and addictive way and feeling alone because he lost his last real connection to the world he wanted. TDKR would have been the perfect opportunity to introduce Robin ala Dark Victory, but TDKR was the last part of the way Nolan saw Batman.

 

[Russell1982]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

I don't think I ever noticed that Engel was one of the "clown" hostages. That's pretty cool. I love that after years I still find the odd little thing here or there that I never realised before.

 

[Azrael23]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Reese "had" the plans, and gave them back to Fox. They show him hand them over in TDK. So Reese had nothing. He had no evidence. And if you say he could have copied it, then your just over thinking it.

After Reese confronted Fox he takes his knowledge to the media now logically it stands to reason that in order to substantiate his claim on live television no less he would likely have duplicates or some type of tangible leverage against Wayne to do otherwise would open him up to lawsuits by someone as powerful as Wayne . Its not necessarily over thinking it, its simple common sense. At the end of the day neither one of us knows whether or not he had evidence, but again an investigation into Wayne Enterprises would likely result.

OVERTHINKING IT....the movie was already 152 minutes. If this was a TV series, sure...but they can't show every little thing or it would be a 8 hour film. If you need to see a police investigation on Reese, then idk?

Now look who's overthinking things Of course the film is not going show the police questioning Reese, but that's not even really the point considering that Nolan clearly had no intentions on addressing this thus the 8 year time jump.

 

[BJJFighter]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

My theory on Reese was that someone eventually did kill him or he left the country. Also guys you should read the TDKR book. Had a lot of stuff in it the movie should of had

 

[Mike86]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Oh, I don't think Reese would willingly try and give Bruce up. I agree with you that there's that sort of nod that, "yeah, you saved my life, thanks. Your secret is safe". That sort of respectful nod. But that's NOT going to stop the city from coming down hard on him, asking him to give up the Batman. That in itself would create tension if Reese was now reluctant to give Bruce up.

And they do have a solid lead. Reese isn't anonymous anymore, remember? Joker spills the beans on what his name is on Mike Engel's show. If they know his name, they're going to figure out where he lives, where he works. Reese can't lie and say he made it up. So he either tells them right there, or it leads them to Fox. The guy was their accountant, he grants them access to the applied science division. The climax of The Dark Knight is a few days after the hospital incident. Reese would be the first person brought in for questioning, not to mention Ramirez, or Engel (one of the "clowns" that Batman saved from being shot by a SWAT team sniper), or even Joker himself.

Yeah The Joker did give away who Reese was and that could have led police to Wayne Enterprises but still they wouldn't have anything too solid to go off of unless he willingly gave up information. I think it would be hard for the police to get a warrant to search Wayne Enterprises unless they had a confession or piece of evidence that directly put Batman as someone working there. I agree it probably should have been explained better though. Reese could have just denied that he knew who Batman was or that he lied which would halt an investigation with nothing to go off other than a reneged claim.

 

[Azrael23]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

The Reese thing isn't perfect I'll grant you that. However after Bruce saved him I think that he had an understanding that Bruce has good intentions being Batman. He may have not outed him to the police if he was questioned. Of course it's possible that the police could piece together that as Reese works for Wayne Enterprises that possibly Bruce was Batman or that someone working at Wayne Enterprises was Batman but if Reese wasn't willing to give him up what proof would they have had? The applied sciences division where Bruce gets all his equipment from is off the books. Unless the police had something really solid leading to a person who worked there being Batman I don't see how they could have just investigated basically by only going on a hunch from one person's claim.

I'll say that's the likely scenario, that Reese kept his mouth shut although again it was lazy to cover such a loose end up. As for applied science being off the books, that's not saying much considering that Bane and his mercenaries easily found out about it.

 

[Mike86]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

You sort of make it seem like Gotham would just be like, "eh, Batman killed those people and Dent. Sure there's this guy that just said he knew who he was, but meh, he was probably lying and doesn't know". So I have to ask, is Dent being dead for the city a big deal for you or not? I mean it has to be right? That's the only way TDKR works. If it is, then Reese is that first guy. I mean, it's not like he was the bum in the coat from Batman Begins. He's a pretty important character that stated, on national television, that he knew the true identity of Batman. His face was all over the news. People bought that he knew. The Joker had everyone trying to kill him, EVEN cops!

How is that not their first lead when looking for a killer Batman? A search warrant for Wayne Enterprises? What? Why? Search for what? They know that Reese works for them, he doesn't even have to say he knows anything else before Wayne Enterprises is targeted for suspect.

But even so, Reese was a ratty little ****er. It wouldn't take too much pressure to make him spill the beans. The guy was ****ting his pants as soon as the Joker was threatening him. What's he going to do with a mob full of blood hungry people and the authorities? Especially when the Joker is supposedly behind bars. He's got nothing to lose. He might have a little more respect after Bruce saved him, but after finding out that Batman went psycho and killed everyone? That's different.

The police would have to have probable cause to say that someone working at Wayne Enterprises is Batman and is responsible for those murders. They can't just go around making wild accusations if they have no proof and if Reese isn't willing to give that information up and they have no physical evidence how exactly do they prove anything? They would have to have warrants to search the premises for any type of physical evidence. They could suspect that something is up with Bruce or with someone employed at Wayne Enterprises but if they have nothing solid to go off of their case is kind of dead in the water. Reese as they know is probably scared for his life so him not being willing to cooperate wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to them. They may try and get something out of him but if he doesn't talk he doesn't.

 

[batfan08]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Reese probably got paid to disappear. It'd be a fitting way to deal with him, since that's what he wanted, anyway.

 

[Mike86]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

DiFabio, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Yes I understand your point that people would be after Reese like crazy but regardless he only gave a lead that he knows who Batman is. That isn't proof of anything. It would give police a start on who might be Batman but that's really all. It's still not anything that's tangible and I'm fairly sure the police would need more to go off of. They may question people from Wayne Enterprises but Fox aside no one there would really have knowledge of anything and obviously he's not talking. The police either need Reese's confession or some sort of physical evidence. To us as viewers we understand why the police should suspect Bruce or Wayne Enterprises for Batman but realistically the police wouldn't just go around making accusations against a high profile citizen and their company unless they felt they had a strong case. The most I could see is like I said people being questioned. Also at the end of the day it's movie logic anyways, not everything makes perfect sense and you could ruin just about any film picking them apart with flaws.

 

[DarkMagic]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

After Reese confronted Fox he takes his knowledge to the media now logically it stands to reason that in order to substantiate his claim on live television no less he would likely have duplicates or some type of tangible leverage against Wayne to do otherwise would open him up to lawsuits by someone as powerful as Wayne . Its not necessarily over thinking it, its simple common sense. At the end of the day neither one of us knows whether or not he had evidence, but again an investigation into Wayne Enterprises would likely result.



Now look who's overthinking things Of course the film is not going show the police questioning Reese, but that's not even really the point considering that Nolan clearly had no intentions on addressing this thus the 8 year time jump.

Reese did NOT have any evidence. When the filmmaker goes out of his way to explicitly SHOW you that he gives Fox the plans, assuming he kept a copy anyway --in direct opposition of what we are clearly shown-- IS overthinking it. That scene was all that was necessary to show Reese giving up the evidence. You wanted to see him shredding papers and wiping hard drives just to be absolutely satisfied that he kept none? Of course not, that would be superfluous. Nolan showed exactly what was necessary to get the point across.

Also, further on Reese. At first, he threatens Fox that he will reveal Batman's identity out of GREED. He wants a big payday, everyday for the rest of his life. When he goes on Engle's show it's not for greed anymore, it's because "he can no longer stand by"...he believes Batman's crusade is actually bad for the city. Joker's killings and threats have him (and much of Gotham) gripped in fear. He actually believes he is doing the right thing by revealing Batman's identity.

Then of course, Joker calls for his head, and he realizes in that moment, (in addition to fearing for his own life) that revealing Batman won't improve anything, Joker is bent on terrorizing people, period...despite what he said before about wanting Batman to take off his mask and turn himself in. He doesn't want Reese (or anyone) spoiling his fun. Reese now knows that revealing in Batman is not the right thing to do to help Gotham. Gotham's best chance against the Joker is Batman.

When Bruce saves him, that just further confirms it in his mind. Here is a guy, who I threatened to blackmail for millions....(whether Reese knows Fox told him or not)...then threatened to expose his greatest secret on live TV...then I was going to be killed, and thus his problem with me would have been neatly solved without him having to lift a finger or spend a cent in payoff for my silence....and he saves me (by risking his LIFE for mine) anyway? Ok yeah, after all that, he's going to take the secret of Batman's real identity to his grave.

The silent head nod tells us all we need to know about Reese finally understanding Bruce/Batman. It's tied up. For Nolan to spend any more time on his decision to stay silent, would have been overkill / spoonfeeding the audience. Just like an additional scene --- so we are absolutely sure he got rid of the evidence after he specifically gives it to Fox ---would have been.

I'll say that's the likely scenario, that Reese kept his mouth shut although again it was lazy to cover such a loose end up. As for applied science being off the books, that's not saying much considering that Bane and his mercenaries easily found out about it.

Bane and his mercenaries had a head start that the Gotham PD and regular citizens don't have. They are the most skilled, highly trained assassins in the world...and, they already knew Batman's identity. They didn't "find out" about the applied sciences division/ Batman's armory, as much as they simply found out exactly where it was. No one who didn't already know/suspect that Bruce Wayne was Batman would have been looking for it.

I do wonder though, about all the techs and scientists that worked in the applied sciences division. The guy at the end who is going over the BAT prototype with Lucius and tells him Bruce Wayne fixed the autopilot...he knows, right?

 

[dw316]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

I do wonder though, about all the techs and scientists that worked in the applied sciences division. The guy at the end who is going over the BAT prototype with Lucius and tells him Bruce Wayne fixed the autopilot...he knows, right?

^^^ LOL. I like to assume that they never "saw" the Bat since Bruce took it out at night for stealth, and by the end everyone was trying to get out of the city or hiding in their homes, and so even sitting in the cockpit, they only thought they were examining the software and the program of a prototype vehicle without knowing what the Bat ever was.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Reese did NOT have any evidence. When the filmmaker goes out of his way to explicitly SHOW you that he gives Fox the plans, assuming he kept a copy anyway --in direct opposition of what we are clearly shown-- IS overthinking it. That scene was all that was necessary to show Reese giving up the evidence. You wanted to see him shredding papers and wiping hard drives just to be absolutely satisfied that he kept none? Of course not, that would be superfluous. Nolan showed exactly what was necessary to get the point across.

Also, further on Reese. At first, he threatens Fox that he will reveal Batman's identity out of GREED. He wants a big payday, everyday for the rest of his life. When he goes on Engle's show it's not for greed anymore, it's because "he can no longer stand by"...he believes Batman's crusade is actually bad for the city. Joker's killings and threats have him (and much of Gotham) gripped in fear. He actually believes he is doing the right thing by revealing Batman's identity.

Then of course, Joker calls for his head, and he realizes in that moment, (in addition to fearing for his own life) that revealing Batman won't improve anything, Joker is bent on terrorizing people, period...despite what he said before about wanting Batman to take off his mask and turn himself in. He doesn't want Reese (or anyone) spoiling his fun. Reese now knows that revealing in Batman is not the right thing to do to help Gotham. Gotham's best chance against the Joker is Batman.

When Bruce saves him, that just further confirms it in his mind. Here is a guy, who I threatened to blackmail for millions....(whether Reese knows Fox told him or not)...then threatened to expose his greatest secret on live TV...then I was going to be killed, and thus his problem with me would have been neatly solved without him having to lift a finger or spend a cent in payoff for my silence....and he saves me (by risking his LIFE for mine) anyway? Ok yeah, after all that, he's going to take the secret of Batman's real identity to his grave.

The silent head nod tells us all we need to know about Reese finally understanding Bruce/Batman. It's tied up. For Nolan to spend any more time on his decision to stay silent, would have been overkill / spoonfeeding the audience. Just like an additional scene --- so we are absolutely sure he got rid of the evidence after he specifically gives it to Fox ---would have been.



Bane and his mercenaries had a head start that the Gotham PD and regular citizens don't have. They are the most skilled, highly trained assassins in the world...and, they already knew Batman's identity. They didn't "find out" about the applied sciences division/ Batman's armory, as much as they simply found out exactly where it was. No one who didn't already know/suspect that Bruce Wayne was Batman would have been looking for it.

I do wonder though, about all the techs and scientists that worked in the applied sciences division. The guy at the end who is going over the BAT prototype with Lucius and tells him Bruce Wayne fixed the autopilot...he knows, right?

Honestly nothing else needs to be said about Reese. If people cant grasp it, then idk ...I guess some need everything spelled out for them or they can't handle it...

 

[Username]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

I was watching IM1 the other day and the guy that played Reese was one of the tech guys in the room when Rhodey phones Tony while Tony is taking out the Ten Rings. The "jogging in the canyon" scene.
I was just laughing that Reese got a new identity and a new job in the military to get away from Gotham.

 

[Fan]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Wow, what an enormous discussion with many large and intersting posts. Some here really think a lot about the movie's contents, thats a nice fact.

I was watching IM1 the other day and the guy that played Reese was one of the tech guys in the room when Rhodey phones Tony while Tony is taking out the Ten Rings. The "jogging in the canyon" scene.
I was just laughing that Reese got a new identity and a new job in the military to get away from Gotham.