1/6 Hot Toys - MMS274 - TDKR - John Blake with Bat-Signal 1/6th scale Collectible Set

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

^^^ LOL. I like to assume that they never "saw" the Bat since Bruce took it out at night for stealth, and by the end everyone was trying to get out of the city or hiding in their homes, and so even sitting in the cockpit, they only thought they were examining the software and the program of a prototype vehicle without knowing what the Bat ever was.

yah to me its shown the Wayne Applied Science Division builds stuff for others like the military, police, tech companies, businesses, etc etc all over the world. So they have a staff obviously when Fox took it over again in Begins. And after Bane was defeated they had to round up all the tech. Just because Wayne fixed The Bat I wouldn't say they knew Wayne was Batman. Its Wayne's company, he can do what he wants and if he wants to fix or modify things, its all his stuff anyway to fix. And in many Batman stories some always thought Wayne was helping Batman, not ever thinking they were the same guy. So for all they know Wayne was just helping Batman because he had the money and means to build the tech for him.

 

[Username]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

So for all they know Wayne was just helping Batman because he had the money and means to build the tech for him.

 

[DarkMagic]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Even though that's easily explained, well done.

 

[dw316]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

LOL, but the "Batman" lives in the end thru Blake so when he shows up eventually, wouldn't that make people think that Bruce wasn't the Batman if they hadn't assumed it to begin with, sort of? Haha, this thread totally transformed into a TDK Trilogy discussion, which is fun! I remember there was even an article somewhere talking about the time it takes for a missing person to be declared dead. Unless the Fox ending was a "flashback" and the whole will and other "endings" took place sometime after the 6 months that was mentioned with the Fox ending.

 

[Username]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Even though that's easily explained, well done.

I love that pic.
It's like Reese wrote that front page trying to get people to see the link.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

LOL, but the "Batman" lives in the end thru Blake so when he shows up eventually, wouldn't that make people think that Bruce wasn't the Batman if they hadn't assumed it to begin with, sort of? Haha, this thread totally transformed into a TDK Trilogy discussion, which is fun! I remember there was even an article somewhere talking about the time it takes for a missing person to be declared dead. Unless the Fox ending was a "flashback" and the whole will and other "endings" took place sometime after the 6 months that was mentioned with the Fox ending.

Right , I just meant since we didnt see any of the Blake-era Batman, that its just implies no one knew it was Bruce except for a select few who he revealed it to...

Thing with Reese, is he saw Bruce in TDK when he crashed the lamborghini into them when Gordon was escorting Reese. That was planned by Bruce to show Reese that he wasn't Batman. At that point, it implies Reese would give up his theory Bruce was Batman. And if he didn't, he would probably just go mad trying to figure it out.

 

[The Iron Koob]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Yeah no offense but that Reese theory is completely wrong. Difabio is right. Reese sees that Wayne saved him despite what he was trying to do to him and he keeps his mouth shut after that and also after he realizes the mess he got himself into.

 

[DarkMagic]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

From the stand point of having to find physical evidence like blue prints, yeah.

But the city going after Reese after the deaths of Dent, Maroni and cops? Nope, that wouldn't just stop them. In TDKR, Reese is a loose end that's never tied up. Just like Ramirez, Engel, and the Joker. Not to mention all the SWAT and hostages that were eye witnesses at the Pruitt building, SEEING Batman save the hostages from sniper bullets.

The reason Reese won't reveal Batman's identity isn't just because he no longer has evidence (although it is true that he doesn't have it anymore).....it's because he doesn't want to anymore. First he was motivated by greed, then by wanting what's best for Gotham, and finally fear for his life and the strong belief that Bruce/Batman was doing good + his sense of debt to him (literally, owes him his life). He's not interested in revealing it, no matter the threats from the public or the pressure from the cops. The reports of Batman being a cop-killer? He knows better. Why would he kill cops yet not only spare him (Reese), but risk his own life to save someone that deliberately tried to screw him over and who he has every reason to want out of the picture? He knows Batman is good.

I'm not sure where you're going with the mention of the witnesses seeing Batman save the hostages. So...they also know Batman is good? How would Engel and the hostages claiming Batman really is good add to pressure to find out who he really is? That's not a loose end.

 

[DarkMagic]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

I think morphosis was kidding with that Reese theory of him not being sure. I hope. I think we all can agree that Reese definitely knows who Batman is. If anything, Bruce saving him just further confirmed it.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

I think morphosis was kidding with that Reese theory of him not being sure. I hope. I think we all can agree that Reese definitely knows who Batman is. If anything, Bruce saving him just further confirmed it.

Yes i was kidding thats why i put ....i was just making fun of people in this thread having to come up with stories like Reese investigations, him copying Tumbler plans, where is Ramirez, etc etc.

Sorry i should have put "jk" at the end, but im at work so i was typing fast

 

[Azrael23]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Reese did NOT have any evidence. When the filmmaker goes out of his way to explicitly SHOW you that he gives Fox the plans, assuming he kept a copy anyway --in direct opposition of what we are clearly shown-- IS overthinking it. That scene was all that was necessary to show Reese giving up the evidence. You wanted to see him shredding papers and wiping hard drives just to be absolutely satisfied that he kept none? Of course not, that would be superfluous. Nolan showed exactly what was necessary to get the point across.

No offense but I believe you may be overthinking the intentions of that particular scene. I don't believe Nolan was deliberately going out of his way to show Reese surrendering evidence, but more of a deliberate attempt to demonstrate that Reese didn't fully think his blackmailing through. If anything I believe the scene had a more facetious intent than what you're claiming. If Reese is willing to go on live television to expose Batman's identity then he clearly has something tangible to prove it otherwise he would be setting himself for a lawsuit over an accusation he has no way to corroborate, that's just simple common sense.

Also, further on Reese. At first, he threatens Fox that he will reveal Batman's identity out of GREED. He wants a big payday, everyday for the rest of his life. When he goes on Engle's show it's not for greed anymore, it's because "he can no longer stand by"...he believes Batman's crusade is actually bad for the city. Joker's killings and threats have him (and much of Gotham) gripped in fear. He actually believes he is doing the right thing by revealing Batman's identity.

Then of course, Joker calls for his head, and he realizes in that moment, (in addition to fearing for his own life) that revealing Batman won't improve anything, Joker is bent on terrorizing people, period...despite what he said before about wanting Batman to take off his mask and turn himself in. He doesn't want Reese (or anyone) spoiling his fun. Reese now knows that revealing in Batman is not the right thing to do to help Gotham. Gotham's best chance against the Joker is Batman.

When Bruce saves him, that just further confirms it in his mind. Here is a guy, who I threatened to blackmail for millions....(whether Reese knows Fox told him or not)...then threatened to expose his greatest secret on live TV...then I was going to be killed, and thus his problem with me would have been neatly solved without him having to lift a finger or spend a cent in payoff for my silence....and he saves me (by risking his LIFE for mine) anyway? Ok yeah, after all that, he's going to take the secret of Batman's real identity to his grave.

The silent head nod tells us all we need to know about Reese finally understanding Bruce/Batman. It's tied up. For Nolan to spend any more time on his decision to stay silent, would have been overkill / spoonfeeding the audience. Just like an additional scene --- so we are absolutely sure he got rid of the evidence after he specifically gives it to Fox ---would have been.

I assure you, a synopsis isn't necessary, I saw the film too Yet no one is really arguing whether or not Reese kept quiet or his purpose behind it. I do however know that realistically any investigator would have looked to him first regarding suspects due to the fact that he was prepared to take his claim to the air. As for what Reese thought about Wayne, especially in the aftermath the Dent cover up, that's pure conjecture.

Bane and his mercenaries had a head start that the Gotham PD and regular citizens don't have. They are the most skilled, highly trained assassins in the world...and, they already knew Batman's identity. They didn't "find out" about the applied sciences division/ Batman's armory, as much as they simply found out exactly where it was. No one who didn't already know/suspect that Bruce Wayne was Batman would have been looking for it.

You still never actually explained how a team of mercenaries whose leader was ostracized prior to Wayne's initiation into the original group specifically knew the location to an armory purportedly "off the books". Especially since Batman hasn't been active for nearly a decade.

I mean them being highly trained and knowing Wayne's identity doesn't intrinsically make them knowledgeable about the specific location of a covert armory, especially when they were able to make their home undetected directly under it. Just seem far to convenient.

 

[DarkMagic]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

And you know all this, how?

I know this (well, as much as any of us can "know" -- a better word is believe ) because the last thing we see of Reese is the look and very slight nod from Bruce. Like I've been trying to say before, the character progresses...he evolves. Just because we're shown him as a greedy snake in one scene, doesn't mean we should automatically apply "greedy snake" to him from then on, especially when he later says and does things to show that he's motivated by more than just money (doing what he believes is right; fear for his life). It's just like assuming because Selina is introduced in TDKR as a crook, and she leads Batman into Bane's trap, he should never trust her---even after she comes back to save him and risk her life on a seemingly suicide mission to save Gotham by his side. Characters evolve, both Reese and Selina have enough to show that they are not simply to be judged by what we see of them on face value. It would be a very boring movie series if no characters grew at all from our first impressions of them.

Now, after Bruce saves him, I agree with you. I personally think that Reese will keep his mouth shut (until Bruce is charged with murder and kidnapping that is). BUT, there's no indication that Reese will just "never tell". Remember, this happens before Bruce is wanted for murder. Even when Batman was doing good, Reese didn't care, he was in it for the money. Fox blows him off and humiliates Reese and what does Reese turn around and do? He goes to a talk show to turn Bruce's *** in.

Is it for "the good of the city" and wanting him to "do the right thing"? Or is it because he was scorned by Fox and humliated? That he lost out on millions a year? Sorry, I think it could go either way. Since when has it shown that Reese has had a change of heart in the film? Maybe he was blowing smoke under the networks *** so they would actually LET him on live television.

If you could believe that Reese was so shocked at the deaths and destruction that he wanted to turn Batman in for"the greater good" and not for selfish reasons, then you should be able to believe that Reese was so shocked that Bruce ended up going AWOL and taking out cops and Gotham's White Knight in cold blood, right?

The subtle nod is all the indication needed. You are automatically assuming that Reese will just believe the reports of Batman killing cops and Dent are true. If I'm Reese, I'm thinking "So this guy knows I tried to screw him over, but he didn't kill me (or even just do nothing and let me die), he went out of his way to save me...and they're telling me he just killed cops and Dent for no reason? Yeah, I'm not buying it." Why would he believe that? Especially after a life and death situation that he's been in, his beliefs about Batman aren't going to be so easily shaken because of something he heard he did. If someone told you that the person who just saved your life turned around and killed a bunch of people, what would you trust about his true nature? Someone else's word, or what you experienced?

That the lie shouldn't work for over a year when investigations take place, let alone 8?

It's a loose end in the lie. Gordon was right, you can't just "sweep all that up" . You really think that it would take a young cop 8 years later to finally start questioning things? That's ludicrous. The city wanted Batman's blood and/or they wanted answers for why this vigilante they put their trust into decided to go nuts on them at the last second. We SEE the media/Gotham at the breaking of the Batsignal on top of the MCU. So TDKR then goes and has us believe, "well, Gotham just never really cared about Batman. He just disappeared one day and no one looked into it". I'm sorry, that's ridiculous. If that's the case, then the big "Dent died a white knight" doesn't really matter to the city. And if that doesn't matter, that sort of nixes the idea on all the stuff TDKR created.

Think about it, that lie isn't just going to put pressure on Batman and Gordon, but everyone involved at the Hospital and Pruitt building.

Pressure on them to do what?

--"Reveal everything you know about Batman!"

--"Ok well, I know he saved our lives. I know if he didn't get involved, the SWAT snipers would have killed us because we were wearing clown masks and had guns taped to our hands."

--"Yeah yeah, but we're pressuring you to reveal who he really is!...the pressure of the whole city is on you!"

--"Oh yeah, about that, I just don't know the answer to that, sorry. Besides, I'm not sure I'd give up the guy who saved my life to you even if I did know (which I don't), no matter what you say he did."

The general public, the millions of Gothamites who have no direct experience with Batman...I could see them accepting that a masked man is the killer of their brave D.A. and some cops. The relatively very few people who have direct experience of Batman saving their lives are not going to be able to convince the millions of people who don't know better and now believe he is a criminal. The overwhelming majority of people will of course believe what they are told about in the absence of evidence to the contrary. So the "lie" succeeds. Not a loose end that it worked.

I don't think so. He brought that up out of now where.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt with his use of .

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

I know this (well, as much as any of us can "know" -- a better word is believe ) because the last thing we see of Reese is the look and very slight nod from Bruce. Like I've been trying to say before, the character progresses...he evolves. Just because we're shown him as a greedy snake in one scene, doesn't mean we should automatically apply "greedy snake" to him from then on, especially when he later says and does things to show that he's motivated by more than just money (doing what he believes is right; fear for his life). It's just like assuming because Selina is introduced in TDKR as a crook, and she leads Batman into Bane's trap, he should never trust her---even after she comes back to save him and risk her life on a seemingly suicide mission to save Gotham by his side. Characters evolve, both Reese and Selina have enough to show that they are not simply to be judged by what we see of them on face value. It would be a very boring movie series if no characters grew at all from our first impressions of them.



The subtle nod is all the indication needed. You are automatically assuming that Reese will just believe the reports of Batman killing cops and Dent are true. If I'm Reese, I'm thinking "So this guy knows I tried to screw him over, but he didn't kill me (or even just do nothing and let me die), he went out of his way to save me...and they're telling me he just killed cops and Dent for no reason? Yeah, I'm not buying it." Why would he believe that? Especially after a life and death situation that he's been in, his beliefs about Batman aren't going to be so easily shaken because of something he heard he did. If someone told you that the person who just saved your life turned around and killed a bunch of people, what would you trust about his true nature? Someone else's word, or what you experienced?

Pressure on them to do what?

--"Reveal everything you know about Batman!"

--"Ok well, I know he saved our lives. I know if he didn't get involved, the SWAT snipers would have killed us because we were wearing clown masks and had guns taped to our hands."

--"Yeah yeah, but we're pressuring you to reveal who he really is!...the pressure of the whole city is on you!"

--"Oh yeah, about that, I just don't know the answer to that, sorry. Besides, I'm not sure I'd give up the guy who saved my life to you even if I did know (which I don't), no matter what you say he did."

The general public, the millions of Gothamites who have no direct experience with Batman...I could see them accepting that a masked man is the killer of their brave D.A. and some cops. The relatively very few people who have direct experience of Batman saving their lives are not going to be able to convince the millions of people who don't know better and now believe he is a criminal. The overwhelming majority of people will of course believe what they are told about in the absence of evidence to the contrary. So the "lie" succeeds. Not a loose end that it worked.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt with his use of .

i agree. There is no reason to go back to Reese after Bruce saves him. Thats all that needs to be shown. I think when people are shooting at him and then Bruce saves his life, he changed his mind, and thats the end of it. If you need more, idk...then lets all hope for the Gotham TV show where there is time to really tell even more details to a story and go back to characters at more length.

 

[Azrael23]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

And you know all this, how?

Now, after Bruce saves him, I agree with you. I personally think that Reese will keep his mouth shut (until Bruce is charged with murder and kidnapping that is). BUT, there's no indication that Reese will just "never tell". Remember, this happens before Bruce is wanted for murder. Even when Batman was doing good, Reese didn't care, he was in it for the money. Fox blows him off and humiliates Reese and what does Reese turn around and do? He goes to a talk show to turn Bruce's *** in.

Is it for "the good of the city" and wanting him to "do the right thing"? Or is it because he was scorned by Fox and humliated? That he lost out on millions a year? Sorry, I think it could go either way. Since when has it shown that Reese has had a change of heart in the film? Maybe he was blowing smoke under the networks *** so they would actually LET him on live television.

If you could believe that Reese was so shocked at the deaths and destruction that he wanted to turn Batman in for"the greater good" and not for selfish reasons, then you should be able to believe that Reese was so shocked that Bruce ended up going AWOL and taking out cops and Gotham's White Knight in cold blood, right?

Precisely! whatever the poster is asserting in the aftermath of the Dent/Two-Face cover up is pure conjecture. I don't believe Bruce saving Reese would perpetually keep his silence especially if batman is
now wanted for the murders of 5 people which includes cops and Gotham's highly esteemed district attorney. Those are game changers and Reese not knowing the full picture would almost out of obligation need to speak up and I'm sure the authorities would force him to. This
is where suspension of disbelief becomes a necessity because this can't be explained away.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

No offense but I believe you may be overthinking the intentions of that particular scene. I don't believe Nolan was deliberately going out of his way to show Reese surrendering evidence, but more of a deliberate attempt to demonstrate that Reese didn't fully think his blackmailing through. If anything I believe the scene had a more facetious intent than what you're claiming. If Reese is willing to go on live television to expose Batman's identity then he clearly has something tangible to prove it otherwise he would be setting himself for a lawsuit over an accusation he has no way to corroborate, that's just simple common sense.

yes, Reese didnt fully think it through. Fox knew it would be easy to make Reese look foolish. Are people going to believe Reese or Wayne? With Bruce's wealth & fame a law suit really wouldn't be needed. What is he going to sue Reese for? It was all about making Reese look silly and foolish and it would be easy to do. We see with Reese's demeanor that he's a bit of a fool to begin with. He wanted $$ and fame and didn't like Wayne, but it backfired on him. Then his life was at stake and I dont think he realized that would happen either...Bruce saved him....he realizes his mistakes. the end.

 

[DarkMagic]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

No offense but I believe you may be overthinking the intentions of that particular scene. I don't believe Nolan was deliberately going out of his way to show Reese surrendering evidence, but more of a deliberate attempt to demonstrate that Reese didn't fully think his blackmailing through. If anything I believe the scene had a more facetious intent than what you're claiming. If Reese is willing to go on live television to expose Batman's identity then he clearly has something tangible to prove it otherwise he would be setting himself for a lawsuit over an accusation he has no way to corroborate, that's just simple common sense.

Ok fine, if you really want to go by ONLY what we see...you must admit we SEE Reese give Lucius the Tumbler plans. We DO NOT see any indication that he kept any evidence. Your claim that "clearly has something tangible" automatically fails based only on what we see. If he so "clearly" has something, why isn't it clear enough for the audience to see? I'm assuming based on what we DO SEE, while you're assuming that something is there that we DON'T SEE.

I assure you, a synopsis isn't necessary, I saw the film too Yet no one is really arguing whether or not Reese kept quiet or his purpose behind it. I do however know that realistically any investigator would have looked to him first regarding suspects due to the fact that he was prepared to take his claim to the air. As for what Reese thought about Wayne, especially in the aftermath the Dent cover up, that's pure conjecture.

That may be a fair point. But then if my position that Reese still believes Bruce/Batman is good despite the reports is pure conjecture (since we don't see his reaction to the news)...then isn't the position that he now believes Bruce is a murderer also pure conjecture (for the same exact reason: since we don't see his reaction to the news). My conjecture is based on the last information we are shown about Reese. He seems pretty grateful to Bruce to be alive. What is the opposite conjecture based on?

You still never actually explained how a team of mercenaries whose leader was ostracized prior to Wayne's initiation into the original group specifically knew the location to an armory purportedly "off the books". Especially since Batman hasn't been active for nearly a decade.

I mean them being highly trained and knowing Wayne's identity doesn't intrinsically make them knowledgeable about the specific location of a covert armory, especially when they were able to make their home undetected directly under it. Just seem far to convenient.

I didn't explain that because the question wasn't asked in this discussion. Bane was excommunicated from the LOS, not Talia. Is it really that far fetched to believe that the surviving LOS members from BB (or Ra's off-camera communication to his non-excommunicated daughter) would reveal to her who Batman is? Whatever the case, we know that Talia, at some point in the past, was privy to the information of Batman's identity, and specifically infiltrated Wayne Enterprises as a board member to target Bruce. Since she is working with Bane to systematically destroy him and his city, why wouldn't she have shared that info?

I don't believe they automatically knew the precise location of the armory just because they knew he was Batman. I do believe though that showing the legwork involved in investigating the location (a montage of LOS guys snooping around Wayne Enterprises perhaps?) would have been an unnecessary and boring scene. But that's a director's decision. Explain exactly how everything happened step by step, or show the most important stuff and let the audience fill in the blanks. I'm glad Nolan left it out, you clearly would have preferred that he showed it.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Ok fine, if you really want to go by ONLY what we see...you must admit we SEE Reese give Lucius the Tumbler plans. We DO NOT see any indication that he kept any evidence. Your claim that "clearly has something tangible" automatically fails based only on what we see. If he so "clearly" has something, why isn't it clear enough for the audience to see? I'm assuming based on what we DO SEE, while you're assuming that something is there that we DON'T SEE.

That may be a fair point. But then if my position that Reese still believes Bruce/Batman is good despite the reports is pure conjecture (since we don't see his reaction to the news)...then isn't the position that he now believes Bruce is a murderer also pure conjecture (for the same exact reason: since we don't see his reaction to the news). My conjecture is based on the last information we are shown about Reese. He seems pretty grateful to Bruce to be alive. What is the opposite conjecture based on?

I didn't explain that because the question wasn't asked in this discussion. Bane was excommunicated from the LOS, not Talia. Is it really that far fetched to believe that the surviving LOS members from BB (or Ra's off-camera communication to his non-excommunicated daughter) would reveal to her who Batman is? Whatever the case, we know that Talia, at some point in the past, was privy to the information of Batman's identity, and specifically infiltrated Wayne Enterprises as a board member to target Bruce. Since she is working with Bane to systematically destroy him and his city, why wouldn't she have shared that info?

I don't believe they automatically knew the precise location of the armory just because they knew he was Batman. I do believe though that showing the legwork involved in investigating the location (a montage of LOS guys snooping around Wayne Enterprises perhaps?) would have been an unnecessary and boring scene. But that's a director's decision. Explain exactly how everything happened step by step, or show the most important stuff and let the audience fill in the blanks. I'm glad Nolan left it out, you clearly would have preferred that he showed it.

Also I think the key moment, the final thing Talia needed is when Fox showed Talia where the Energy Project was. Bruce didn't want to because he didn't trust anyone and he should have trusted his instincts.

 

[dw316]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Not sure how many scenes/parts were cut from the final film, but there were definitely a lot. They cut a lot of the action scenes that our stunt team worked on and had different versions for a lot of things in the final product. I remembering reading a lot of people hoping Nolan would release an extended Director's Cut w/ commentary, but unfortunately he never does commentary (not including the Blu-Ray Live bit for TDK) since he likes the audience to interpret things for themselves.

 

[Azrael23]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

Ok fine, if you really want to go by ONLY what we see...you must admit we SEE Reese give Lucius the Tumbler plans. We DO NOT see any indication that he kept any evidence. Your claim that "clearly has something tangible" automatically fails based only on what we see. If he so "clearly" has something, why isn't it clear enough for the audience to see? I'm assuming based on what we DO SEE, while you're assuming that something is there that we DON'T SEE.

Not necessarily, because that's not what I was proposing. You emphasized more by going what was depicted on screen, not I. Do we the audience need to be shown that Reese may have duplicates of the schematics of Batman's armory or can at the very least obtain some? No. Can we draw a conclusion that he may possibly have something to corroborate it based off the fact that he's A. Willing to go on live television to accuse one of the wealthiest men in the world and B. That Joker on some level sees Reese that much of a threat in possibly outing Batman that he tries to have him killed. It would make absolutely zero sense for Reese to go on the air after relinquishing his only
leverage and proof to Fox and accuse a powerhouse like Wayne. To make such a strong and accusation with absolutely nothing to back it would be asinine on his part.

My conjecture is based on the last information we are shown about Reese. He seems pretty grateful to Bruce to be alive. What is the opposite conjecture based on?

That much of Gotham believes Batman murdered Dent and that Gordon who many know worked alongside Batman is also touting that made up lie. Or does my conjecture hinge on what's presented visibly in the film? because you can't have it both ways. Anyhow it doesn't matter how Reese views Bruce, my argument was that Reese would have logically been the first lead in a manhunt for Batman and that they would have likely pressed him for information.

I didn't explain that because the question wasn't asked in this discussion. Bane was excommunicated from the LOS, not Talia. Is it really that far fetched to believe that the surviving LOS members from BB (or Ra's off-camera communication to his non-excommunicated daughter) would reveal to her who Batman is? Whatever the case, we know that Talia, at some point in the past, was privy to the information of Batman's identity, and specifically infiltrated Wayne Enterprises as a board member to target Bruce. Since she is working with Bane to systematically destroy him and his city, why wouldn't she have shared that info?

Talia doesn't factor in until the 3rd installment while Bruce ceased actively being Batman at the conclusion of the 2nd installment. So again how would Talia be privy to a department presumably off the books according to Fox?

Again what you propose is conjecture that was never seen nor mentioned in TDKR, but I wouldn't inherently dismiss it out of the realm of possibility even though it sounds far fetched. Unfortunately with the C. Reese discussion others that believe it to be an unresolved loose end in the search for Batman aren't afforded that same luxury:

I'm glad Nolan left it out, you clearly would have preferred that he showed it.

Actually I wouldn't have preferred he showed it, but at the same time I'm not going to fabricate apologetic fan fiction all to accommodate what some could consider shoddy writing or at the very least simply ignored because it may have conflicted with Nolan's setting or story. Many aren't just going to accept anything merely because the director says they should e.g Blake 's nonsensical deduction of Wayne being Batman.

 

[xenowolf]

Re: Hot Toys The Dark Knight Rises - Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Detective John Blake ??

If I'm Reese and my plan to out the one guy fighting the evil of this city backfires and that evil calls for my blood or he will kill more, and everybody and their brother are now trying to kill me to protect themselves. Then the hero i tried to have locked up, saves my life, when letting me die would protect his identity. I would be forever in his debt and take his secrets to the grave with me. If the police interrogated me about my earlier claims I would just say I made it up for the publicity. You would have to be pretty blind not to see how Reese never told about batman, and I didn't even mention the fact that commissioner Gordon would squash any investigations that might lead to batmans identity since he would be protecting him. Reese was handled perfectly and I think 99% of the audience saw what I saw and understood that. Also Difabio I have seen the animated series heart of ice episode with freeze and really enjoyed it, I just don't think that kind of villain fits in Nolan's movies same with penguin, they would have made the movies lose their realistic aspect.