Hot Toys MMS429 - Return of the Jedi Luke Skywalker

[SilverStar17]

Well that's not just a standard lightsaber we're talking about. With it's long history and connection to so many powerful Jedi (Anakin, Obi-Wan, Luke), I don't see why it wouldn't be infused with its own Force energy or why the Force couldn't work through it to find someone like Rey.

Okay, I guess I could learn to accept that. I just thought the Force itself didn't take sides between the Dark Side and Light Side, that it's all about how it's used. And the history of that lightsaber includes the slaughter of Jedi younglings (among others), so I would assume there would be conflicting motivation coming from this now-magical lightsaber. If that's where they're going with this, I hope the explanation is made clear. If it actually sought out Luke, then called to Rey, and is NOT a Skywalker-exclusive thing, then the Force is indeed trying to guide the Jedi in general to overcome the Dark Side. Maybe it's just that I've had a poor understanding of the whole Force thing.

I agree that's good food for thought. Perhaps the saber itself has come to be Force sensitive in some capacity.

 

[TonTon]

I think Finn at this point is wasted though. I felt his character in TLJ was a regression from where he potentially could have gone based on his character in TFA. If this was going to be the case with him, I feel that his character getting killed by Kylo in TFA probably would have added more gravitas to the overall story.

I did find Rey less interesting in this film, but not because of the reveal about her parents, and that so-called mystery was never what made me like her so much in TFA anyway.

I just think she got completely overshadowed by Luke's presence and spent too much of the movie stuck on that damn island.

This has been bugging me, the new movies were supposed to past the torch, but only Rey (TFA) and Kylo (TLJ) seem like standouts to me. They haven’t set up anything with the main heroes—any conflict between them anyhow—for the next movie.

Spoiler

In fact the resistance (at the expense of Luke) will be starting episode 9 in the same situation that 8 started in (which was at the expense of Han).

Kylo and Rey have both grown, but as SS said, Finn seems like he’s regressed a bit. Poe has just seemed like they haven’t figured out a good way to use him in either movie. They should have figured out how to get the three of them in scenes together in TFA and definitely in TLJ.

With mixed feelings about TLJ, I guess the direction they decided to go with our three great heroes and the underwhelming set-up of the new ones is starting to get to me, despite enjoying TFA. Just seemed like at times they have the ingredients for such great things but fall back on recycled plots from the OT or suffer from missed opportunities.

 

[Tortfeazor]

I realize this is the wrong forum for this, so ... apologies in advance, but in regards to the whole “Luke left a map to himself” thing.

No, he didn’t. The opening crawl says that “an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke’s whereabouts”. We then later hear from Han that “those who knew him best thought he went to find the first Jedi Temple” (or something to that effect).

It’s been mentioned that R2’s piece of the map came from the Empire’s archives, and I believe there’s a bit of dialog to that point as well which references the archives, which probably (and did as it turns out) contains such information since the Jedi Temple info would’ve been part of the former Republic’s scope of knowledge.

So ... Luke didn’t say, here guys, I’ve left pieces of a map to myself behind. From knowing him, they assumed where he might be and then looked for a map to the temple.

The dialog about it being a map that leads straight to Luke Skywalker is an over-simplification, and also a fairly bold assumption, on Poe’s part.

 

[greedo737]

Pre-ordered this a few days ago and can't wait for it. This is "my" Luke Skywalker.

None of the new characters have had a chance to develop since both movies have taken place within 2-3 days in universe.

Totally agree

 

[TonTon]

I realize this is the wrong forum for this, so ... apologies in advance, but in regards to the whole “Like left a map to himself” thing.

No, he didn’t. The opening crawl says that “an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke’s whereabouts”. We then later hear from Han that “those who knew him best thought he went to find the first Jedi Temple” (or something to that effect).

It’s been mentioned that R2’s piece of the map came from the Empire’s archives, and I believe there’s a bit of dialog to that point as well which references the archives, which probably (and did as it turns out) contains such information since the Jedi Temple info would’ve been part of the former Republic’s scope of knowledge.

So ... Luke didn’t say, here guys, I’ve left pieces of a map to myself behind. From knowing him, they assumed where he might be and then looked for a map to the temple.

The dialog about it being a map that leads straight to Luke Skywalker is an over-simplification, and also a fairly bold assumption, on Poe’s part.

:exactly

Based on the number of times I’ve seen this mentioned I think TFA clearly said “map to Luke Skywalker” a few too many times without someone saying “now hold on, we don’t know that he’s actually there” at any point.

Totally separately here, but does anybody in the resistance besides Leia know that Kylo is her son? Does everybody know? Seems like nobody mentions it to each other or around her so I can’t tell if it’s supposed to be a secret, an open secret, or what.

 

[SilverStar17]

Just watched TFA again this evening. It's always referred to as "map to Luke Skywalker". Poe says it, C-3PO says it, and Leia says it (kind of). I think Finn also said it.

After this viewing, it also raised the question to me how Kylo knew that "that lightsaber belonged to him" being that it's been missing in the Skywalker family since Bespin.

This has been bugging me, the new movies were supposed to past the torch, but only Rey (TFA) and Kylo (TLJ) seem like standouts to me. They haven’t set up anything with the main heroes—any conflict between them anyhow—for the next movie.

Spoiler

In fact the resistance (at the expense of Luke) will be starting episode 9 in the same situation that 8 started in (which was at the expense of Han).

Kylo and Rey have both grown, but as SS said, Finn seems like he’s regressed a bit. Poe has just seemed like they haven’t figured out a good way to use him in either movie. They should have figured out how to get the three of them in scenes together in TFA and definitely in TLJ.

With mixed feelings about TLJ, I guess the direction they decided to go with our three great heroes and the underwhelming set-up of the new ones is starting to get to me, despite enjoying TFA. Just seemed like at times they have the ingredients for such great things but fall back on recycled plots from the OT or suffer from missed opportunities.

I also feel like Kylo and Rey both have progressed for the most part, but I indeed feel like Finn has regressed. Now they've added Rose into the mix and they need to still develop her character while trying to make up for what they lost with Finn. I like to think of Rose's character being similar to how the OT threw Lando into the mix in ESB, but I think what allowed them to shift the focus onto Lando and allow his character to develop was Han getting frozen in carbonite and momentarily taking him out of the picture.

I really have no clue where they could take Finn and Rose at this point. It seems to me like the second episode in a SW trilogy needs to be the biggest episode as far as having pieces starting to fall into place and contain the biggest turning points as far as character arcs, but for the most part, I really saw none of that in TLJ for the new cast.

Unfortunately, the ST took the exact opposite route and put Rose's character seemingly into a coma right after introducing her, and put Finn's character into the coma at the end of TFA. As I mentioned, if this is the route they wanted to go (which seemingly is nothing), they probably would have been better off just having Finn gotten killed by Kylo on SKB in TFA to add some gravitas to the trilogy. I really liked Finn's character in TFA, but he was essentially nowhere to be found in TLJ.

 

[KBA]

After this viewing, it also raised the question to me how Kylo knew that "that lightsaber belonged to him" being that it's been missing in the Skywalker family since Bespin.

99% sure that Kylo has Luke’s blue light saber in the flashbacks. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Cagoda]

99% sure that Kylo has Luke’s blue light saber in the flashbacks. Can anyone confirm?

Not at all, it’s a brand new lightsaber hilt which I assume belongs to Kylo himself.

 

[SilverStar17]

99% sure that Kylo has Luke’s blue light saber in the flashbacks. Can anyone confirm?

I was thinking this as well. Wasn't it still missing though at that point?

 

[KBA]

I was thinking this as well. Wasn't it still missing though at that point?

If Kylo had it in the flashbacks, I took it to mean Luke probably recovered it or maybe Kylo went on some Jedi initiation pilgrimage to find it or something. My bet is Disney’s new EU will probably explain it in comics or something. Cro$$Over potential and all.

I’d love to see a screen grab proving its not Luke’s from the scene.

 

[ajp4mgs]

After this viewing, it also raised the question to me how Kylo knew that "that lightsaber belonged to him" being that it's been missing in the Skywalker family since Bespin.

Uh oh! . . .

If Kylo had it in the flashbacks, I took it to mean Luke probably recovered it or maybe Kylo went on some Jedi initiation pilgrimage to find it or something. My bet is Disney’s new EU will probably explain it in comics or something. Cro$$Over potential and all.

I’d love to see a screen grab proving its not Luke’s from the scene.

. . . I'd love to see a screen grab proving it is Luke's/Anakin's from the scene. I'm not ready yet to accept the freakin' talking lightsaber that's force sensitive. It speaks to Kylo too!? No; come on SW experts, someone please prove that Kylo would recognize his grandfather's saber some other way. And it would be tough to accept that Kylo just "sensed it." Not if Vader couldn't sense that Leia was his daughter while she was standing right next to him in ANH. Vader can't do that, but Kylo can "sense" a saber belonged to his family? No, I can't do that kind of intellectual contortion.

The Force sure is evolving quickly. It now lets you breathe in space; it allows for Force Skype; and it maybe brings lightsabers to life. What will it be able to do in Episode 9?

 

[Popnfresh98]

Uh oh! . . .



. . . I'd love to see a screen grab proving it is Luke's/Anakin's from the scene. I'm not ready yet to accept the freakin' talking lightsaber that's force sensitive. It speaks to Kylo too!? No; come on SW experts, someone please prove that Kylo would recognize his grandfather's saber some other way. And it would be tough to accept that Kylo just "sensed it." Not if Vader couldn't sense that Leia was his daughter while she was standing right next to him in ANH. Vader can't do that, but Kylo can "sense" a saber belonged to his family? No, I can't do that kind of intellectual contortion.

The Force sure is evolving quickly. It now lets you breathe in space; it allows for Force Skype; and it maybe brings lightsabers to life. What will it be able to do in Episode 9?

It will manifest an avatar that will be bent on destroying the Galaxy.. It wields itself... Rey and kylo will have to put their differences aside to destroy the ultimate evil, and the key will lie within Force advanced broom boy...

(Coz we need a better bad guy than kylo anyway, am I right? He's already been beaten by Rey once and fought to a standstill the second time.. Not exactly big bad material)

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

The Force sure is evolving quickly. It now lets you breathe in space; it allows for Force Skype; and it maybe brings lightsabers to life. What will it be able to do in Episode 9?

You think? At this rate the force won't need random broom boy as a user anymore. It will just rain down lightning and control lightsabers on its own. Star Wars 2017 folks.

 

[subzro]

Uh oh! . . .


The Force sure is evolving quickly. It now lets you breathe in space; it allows for Force Skype; and it maybe brings lightsabers to life. What will it be able to do in Episode 9?

Surviving (and fighting) in space is not a new force power and over 40 years i'm sure her borother would have shown her a few force tricks.

 

[SilverStar17]

Uh oh! . . .



. . . I'd love to see a screen grab proving it is Luke's/Anakin's from the scene. I'm not ready yet to accept the freakin' talking lightsaber that's force sensitive. It speaks to Kylo too!? No; come on SW experts, someone please prove that Kylo would recognize his grandfather's saber some other way. And it would be tough to accept that Kylo just "sensed it." Not if Vader couldn't sense that Leia was his daughter while she was standing right next to him in ANH. Vader can't do that, but Kylo can "sense" a saber belonged to his family? No, I can't do that kind of intellectual contortion.

The Force sure is evolving quickly. It now lets you breathe in space; it allows for Force Skype; and it maybe brings lightsabers to life. What will it be able to do in Episode 9?

I concur. I think there's more evidence to presume that it's not Anakin's/Luke's saber, being that what we know is that it's been missing since Bespin and somehow ended up with Maz many years later. The only evidence we have to think that it is that saber is that it's blue, when blue seems to be the most common color for a Jedi saber.

A think a screen shot would be required more to prove that it is that saber, more than it's not. There's more evidence to suggest that it's not than is.

 

[Deathstalker]

Uh oh! . . .



. . . I'd love to see a screen grab proving it is Luke's/Anakin's from the scene. I'm not ready yet to accept the freakin' talking lightsaber that's force sensitive. It speaks to Kylo too!? No; come on SW experts, someone please prove that Kylo would recognize his grandfather's saber some other way. And it would be tough to accept that Kylo just "sensed it." Not if Vader couldn't sense that Leia was his daughter while she was standing right next to him in ANH. Vader can't do that, but Kylo can "sense" a saber belonged to his family? No, I can't do that kind of intellectual contortion.

The Force sure is evolving quickly. It now lets you breathe in space; it allows for Force Skype; and it maybe brings lightsabers to life. What will it be able to do in Episode 9?

Maybe by episode 9 the force will be able to erase episode 8 from our collective memory

 

[Cagoda]

I know a screenshot will prove it but I can with 100% certainty say it’s a totally different lightsaber, albeit still blue. The shape of Ben’s lightsaber is completely different. I noticed it with both viewings of the movie. I may be able to get a screenshot to prove it.

 

[Jack Bauer]

The Saber Ben(Kylo) has in the flashback is NOT the Skywalker saber. It is basically a silver version of Kylo's saber without the crossguard on it. Here: https://imgur.com/0zsQOyB

It is being discussed over at the RPF here:

https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=284848&page=2

 

[ajp4mgs]

Maybe by episode 9 the force will be able to erase episode 8 from our collective memory

My concern is that it seems the force erased Episode 7 from the collective memory of Rian Johnson and Lucasfilm/Disney. There were a lot of storylines in FA that had me anxious to see them go somewhere in TLJ.

The Skywalker saber calling out to Rey, and having Kenobi speak to her in that vision, had me thinking, "I can't wait to see how Rey can possibly be connected to the Skywalker legacy and/or to Obi-Wan. What is it about her that might have had destiny draw the BB-8 droid her way much like R2-D2 was drawn Luke's way?" Rian Johnson said: "Nah. The lightsaber just talks to people now. Rey has no special connection to the legacy/destiny other than having force abilities."

When Finn suffered what should have been a near-fatal wound at the hands of Kylo, I thought: "Wow, this could set up a cool heroic turn for Finn who has to fight through pain and disability to help Rey. A great chance for him to become a bad-@ss." Rian Johnson said: "Nah. He's fine. But, it's gonna be a great opportunity to have him leaking fluids all over the place. Because, you know, Star Wars has been needing Marvel-type gags in these movies."

When FA leaves off with Rey revealing the famous saber to Luke, I thought: "Oh yeah! Luke is gonna be blown away to see it again and have so many questions and conflicting emotions. Is he gonna take it, or tell Rey it belongs to her now to carry on the legacy?" Rian Johnson said: "Nah! Luke won't care. Not even simple sentimentality will keep him from just tossing it, even though it clearly found its way across the galaxy to be reunited with him. You know, because it's kind of 'alive' now."

I don't get it. It's more frustrating for me because there are things in TLJ that I loved. And these storylines from FA could have actually gone somewhere with the time it took to film the parts I thought were unnecessary. Maybe instead of having Chewie question his eating habits, or reminding us that horse racing is cruel, or telling us that being rich is evil, or giving us plenty of time to check out a pointless casino that just seems a lot like glamorized casinos on Earth (but with aliens, see?), that time could have been used instead on storylines dealing more with, I dunno . . . the ones built up in the prior chapter maybe?

 

[Cagoda]

The Saber Ben(Kylo) has in the flashback is NOT the Skywalker saber. It is basically a silver version of Kylo's saber without the crossguard on it. Here: https://imgur.com/0zsQOyB

It is being discussed over at the RPF here:

https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=284848&page=2

*gasp* it’s Jack Bauer! Any intel on if HT is going to be releasing a Crait Luke or flashback Luke with green lightsaber? I need both lol.