Hot Toys MMS429 - Return of the Jedi Luke Skywalker

[Deathstalker]

My concern is that it seems the force erased Episode 7 from the collective memory of Rian Johnson and Lucasfilm/Disney. There were a lot of storylines in FA that had me anxious to see them go somewhere in TLJ.

The Skywalker saber calling out to Rey, and having Kenobi speak to her in that vision, had me thinking, "I can't wait to see how Rey can possibly be connected to the Skywalker legacy and/or to Obi-Wan. What is it about her that might have had destiny draw the BB-8 droid her way much like R2-D2 was drawn Luke's way?" Rian Johnson said: "Nah. The lightsaber just talks to people now. Rey has no special connection to the legacy/destiny other than having force abilities."

When Finn suffered what should have been a near-fatal wound at the hands of Kylo, I thought: "Wow, this could set up a cool heroic turn for Finn who has to fight through pain and disability to help Rey. A great chance for him to become a bad-@ss." Rian Johnson said: "Nah. He's fine. But, it's gonna be a great opportunity to have him leaking fluids all over the place. Because, you know, Star Wars has been needing Marvel-type gags in these movies."

When FA leaves off with Rey revealing the famous saber to Luke, I thought: "Oh yeah! Luke is gonna be blown away to see it again and have so many questions and conflicting emotions. Is he gonna take it, or tell Rey it belongs to her now to carry on the legacy?" Rian Johnson said: "Nah! Luke won't care. Not even simple sentimentality will keep him from just tossing it, even though it clearly found its way across the galaxy to be reunited with him. You know, because it's kind of 'alive' now."

I don't get it. It's more frustrating for me because there are things in TLJ that I loved. And these storylines from FA could have actually gone somewhere with the time it took to film the parts I thought were unnecessary. Maybe instead of having Chewie question his eating habits, or reminding us that horse racing is cruel, or telling us that being rich is evil, or giving us plenty of time to check out a pointless casino that just seems a lot like glamorized casinos on Earth (but with aliens, see?), that time could have been used instead on storylines dealing more with, I dunno . . . the ones built up in the prior chapter maybe?

Well said....

 

[SilverStar17]

My concern is that it seems the force erased Episode 7 from the collective memory of Rian Johnson and Lucasfilm/Disney. There were a lot of storylines in FA that had me anxious to see them go somewhere in TLJ.

The Skywalker saber calling out to Rey, and having Kenobi speak to her in that vision, had me thinking, "I can't wait to see how Rey can possibly be connected to the Skywalker legacy and/or to Obi-Wan. What is it about her that might have had destiny draw the BB-8 droid her way much like R2-D2 was drawn Luke's way?" Rian Johnson said: "Nah. The lightsaber just talks to people now. Rey has no special connection to the legacy/destiny other than having force abilities."

When Finn suffered what should have been a near-fatal wound at the hands of Kylo, I thought: "Wow, this could set up a cool heroic turn for Finn who has to fight through pain and disability to help Rey. A great chance for him to become a bad-@ss." Rian Johnson said: "Nah. He's fine. But, it's gonna be a great opportunity to have him leaking fluids all over the place. Because, you know, Star Wars has been needing Marvel-type gags in these movies."

When FA leaves off with Rey revealing the famous saber to Luke, I thought: "Oh yeah! Luke is gonna be blown away to see it again and have so many questions and conflicting emotions. Is he gonna take it, or tell Rey it belongs to her now to carry on the legacy?" Rian Johnson said: "Nah! Luke won't care. Not even simple sentimentality will keep him from just tossing it, even though it clearly found its way across the galaxy to be reunited with him. You know, because it's kind of 'alive' now."

I don't get it. It's more frustrating for me because there are things in TLJ that I loved. And these storylines from FA could have actually gone somewhere with the time it took to film the parts I thought were unnecessary. Maybe instead of having Chewie question his eating habits, or reminding us that horse racing is cruel, or telling us that being rich is evil, or giving us plenty of time to check out a pointless casino that just seems a lot like glamorized casinos on Earth (but with aliens, see?), that time could have been used instead on storylines dealing more with, I dunno . . . the ones built up in the prior chapter maybe?

My sentiments as well.

Many are divided over TLJ because of the handling of Luke. Personally, I thought the handling of Luke was fine. It's the main characters in this ST that I think they're mishandling. I'm in the camp of those who really liked TFA and thought they set up a lot of good storylines and arcs (despite the rehashed ANH plot) that they could have taken with them, but in TLJ, it seems like they just went nowhere.

Kylo I think for the most part, is ok. A little cliche as he's obviously supposed to be the new Vader. What they are seemingly doing with him though is the reverse of Vader. Vader got more conflicted as the OT went on, whereas Kylo seems to get less conflicted as the ST goes on. Rey I think is fine sans the part that as far as we know at the moment, she's just a random girl (unless it turns out Kylo was lying to her) with no notable background. Finn I think at this point is a waste, as they'd have too much ground to make up in Episode IX to save his character; TLJ needed to be the film where they really did something with his character and they didn't do anything. Not to mention they now added Rose. However, like the OT did with Solo by having him out of the picture momentarily by freezing him in carbonite in order to develop Lando's character, Rose is seemingly in a coma, which may give them to opportunity to focus on Finn's character again. Though that essentially just makes Rose's character all the more meaningless, if they introduce her the way they did and then summarily take her out of the picture.

 

[Mr.Tanker]

This has been bugging me, the new movies were supposed to past the torch, but only Rey (TFA) and Kylo (TLJ) seem like standouts to me. They haven’t set up anything with the main heroes—any conflict between them anyhow—for the next movie.

Spoiler

In fact the resistance (at the expense of Luke) will be starting episode 9 in the same situation that 8 started in (which was at the expense of Han).

Kylo and Rey have both grown, but as SS said, Finn seems like he’s regressed a bit. Poe has just seemed like they haven’t figured out a good way to use him in either movie. They should have figured out how to get the three of them in scenes together in TFA and definitely in TLJ.

With mixed feelings about TLJ, I guess the direction they decided to go with our three great heroes and the underwhelming set-up of the new ones is starting to get to me, despite enjoying TFA. Just seemed like at times they have the ingredients for such great things but fall back on recycled plots from the OT or suffer from missed opportunities.

I disagree with this, in regards to Finn.

I think people just tend to assume that because he defected from the First Order that he was part of the Resistance at the end of TFA.

He wasn't.

He was on his way out of the system, after Maz's, and only went with Han because Rey had been kidnapped. He lies to the Resistance command and tells them that he knows how to shut off the shields just because he wants to rescue Rey. At this point, he still isn't part of the Resistance and doesn't really care about them, he just wants to save Rey.

Spoiler

At the beginning of TLJ, he is caught by Rose trying to leave, because, once again, he isn't fighting for their cause, he's just worried about Rey.

It's only after seeing all the stuff on Canto Brite that he realizes that he should help the Resistance fight the First Order, and when Phasma calls him "scum," he replies that he is "Rebel Scum," signaling that he has finally realized that their cause is worthwhile and he is finally onboard with it.

This is Finn's character arc for TLJ. Maybe it's not as flashy as everything that Rey and Kylo go through, but it's there and it's important to him as a character. It's setting him up to be a "hero" now.

 

[SilverStar17]

I disagree with this, in regards to Finn.

I think people just tend to assume that because he defected from the First Order that he was part of the Resistance at the end of TFA.

He wasn't.

He was on his way out of the system, after Maz's, and only went with Han because Rey had been kidnapped. He lies to the Resistance command and tells them that he knows how to shut off the shields just because he wants to rescue Rey. At this point, he still isn't part of the Resistance and doesn't really care about them, he just wants to save Rey.

Spoiler

At the beginning of TLJ, he is caught by Rose trying to leave, because, once again, he isn't fighting for their cause, he's just worried about Rey.

It's only after seeing all the stuff on Canto Brite that he realizes that he should help the Resistance fight the First Order, and when Phasma calls him "scum," he replies that he is "Rebel Scum," signaling that he has finally realized that their cause is worthwhile and he is finally onboard with it.

This is Finn's character arc for TLJ. Maybe it's not as flashy as everything that Rey and Kylo go through, but it's there and it's important to him as a character. It's setting him up to be a "hero" now.

True, that's a good point.

 

[Smash]

I disagree with this, in regards to Finn.

I think people just tend to assume that because he defected from the First Order that he was part of the Resistance at the end of TFA.

He wasn't.

He was on his way out of the system, after Maz's, and only went with Han because Rey had been kidnapped. He lies to the Resistance command and tells them that he knows how to shut off the shields just because he wants to rescue Rey. At this point, he still isn't part of the Resistance and doesn't really care about them, he just wants to save Rey.

Spoiler

At the beginning of TLJ, he is caught by Rose trying to leave, because, once again, he isn't fighting for their cause, he's just worried about Rey.

It's only after seeing all the stuff on Canto Brite that he realizes that he should help the Resistance fight the First Order, and when Phasma calls him "scum," he replies that he is "Rebel Scum," signaling that he has finally realized that their cause is worthwhile and he is finally onboard with it.

This is Finn's character arc for TLJ. Maybe it's not as flashy as everything that Rey and Kylo go through, but it's there and it's important to him as a character. It's setting him up to be a "hero" now.

Yep. Finn's arc in TLJ is deciding he wants to fight for a cause, not just for Rey or his friends.

He (and Rey) both start TLJ with perceptions that everything is black/white and good vs evil. A lot of people think Canto Bight was pointless, but I didn't think so at all. A little long? Sure. But definitely not pointless.

Here's my take on Finn/Rose/Canto,etc.:

The entire subplot is set into motion because of Poe. Poe disobeys orders, which ends up getting a ton of people killed, and essentially strands the Raddus without any real defenses. One of the "plot holes" I keep seeing people complain about is that Holdo doesn't just tell Poe the plan. Think about real life, or even if it were Leia instead of Holdo and a random pilot instead of Poe, why the **** would you tell him your plan? You're brought in to command because some **** just went down, and this random pilot you have never met comes up to you and asks what the plan is (which is really your only chance of survival) after they just disobeyed orders, got people killed, and got demoted. They make it clear that Holdo knows everything Poe just did. There's absolutely no reason that anyone would tell Poe what was going on. If anything he deserved more of a "**** off and wait for orders".

So, Poe, thinking he knows better than everyone - takes it upon himself. When Finn and Rose come along about the hyperspace tracking (which everyone else already knows about), instead of taking any info to Holdo and crew about their idea - Poe decides they should take it upon themselves. So that's big mistake number one.

As far as Rose, I saw her as sort of a character that exists for Finn to gain perspective on not only how others see him, but it occurs to him that people are joining this fight because they believe in it - even if they know their chances are slim.

When he gets to Canto Bight, Finn is initially like "This place is dope, why not just stay here!". Finn soon learns that there are people doing bad things everywhere, not just the FO. But more importantly, he learns that the war isn't black and white. There isn't objectively a good guy and a bad guy. When DJ shows him that the weapons are being sold to both sides, Finn starts to get it. Even then, Finn and Rose trusting DJ is a mistake in itself because they've just seen what all of these people are like, and that they'll do anything for money, but again - they make an assumption that a person is good or bad based on 1 or 2 actions, and misplace their trust (ultimately leading to a betrayal).

Poe messes this up even more later, after learning the "secret plan", he tells Finn/Rose and whoever the codebreaker is on the ship (which again, is a mess up on his part).

The ONLY reason anyone knows about the resistance evacuating to Crait, the entire crait battle happens, etc.. is all because of Poe,Finn, and Rose.

Once Finn is back on Crait, he decides to fight even though he knows the chances are slim (which previously he's been all about running, or just saving Rey). Rey is completely fine at this point. Finn is ready to sacrifice himself because he now believes in a cause, not just his friends or not just because someone told him which side is good or bad. I know a lot of people don't like Rose saving him, but I took it as kind of her learning the same thing that Poe did. When she says "We're not going to win by killing what we hate, but by saving what we love", that to me was basically her saying "hey we need to be defensive and smart because they will easily kill us all otherwise".

Poe learns to play it smart, and not just go blow everything up all the time. So at the end of TLJ, he's more in the position and mindset that Leia wanted him to be in (which he wasn't at the beginning).

I thought every character had a pretty solid arc for the most part. Rey and Finn less obvious than all of the others, primarily because they had the biggest in TFA.

Basically:

Finn - discovers everything isn't black/white and decides he wants to fight for a cause. Stops running from everything.

Rey - also discovers things aren't black/white. Learns more about Kylo/Luke, that her expectations about the jedi and everything aren't all true. She also learns that the dark side doesn't have the answers she wants, and to stand on her own two feet instead of waiting for someone to "show her where she belongs". And obviously she and Ben have a really good arc together imo.

Poe - Goes from hotheaded pilot to being primed to be a leader, knowing when to back off and be smart.

Luke - Arguably one of the bigger arcs in the movie. He's bitter about "the legend of luke skywalker" the entire movie, describing that the Jedi were flawed and that it all needs to end, trying to make it clear to Rey that he's just a man, not a legend. Overtime, with the help of Yoda, he learns to allows himself to fail, and becomes at peace with what has happened. He realizes that the Jedi can continue, because he once again believes that there's good out there. And that the good out weighs the bad. He's no longer afraid to fail, or to let others fail. "No one is ever truly gone". I think that, even though he doesn't try to save Ben in the moment, he knows it's possible - just that he's not the one to do it. So he regains his faith there a bit too. But most importantly, Luke embraces the force and the myth he has become around the galaxy. He realizes that he can do more as a legend (force ghost, etc) than he ever could as just the man. His final act is probably the most badass thing anyone in-universe (or us) have ever seen, and at that moment it's not about power or destroying anything. It's not about destroying the dark side, killing sith, etc like the prequel's flawed jedi. It's about inspiring the galaxy, bringing hope that obviously will have everyone choosing sides, and also inspires all the young force sensitives out there. He's at peace again, and becomes one with the force.

Kylo's arc is incredibly more obvious, and dope as ****. He let's go of the past and stops trying to be like Vader, and in doing so does what Vader always wanted to but never could. However, he also finds that (once again), the dark side and power do not fulfill him. He essentially rules the galaxy, but still feels alone. This is parallel with Rey's scene in the mirror cave - where she finds that no matter what you look for with the dark side, you'll only find yourself. Kylo is kind of opposite Anakin in a lot of ways, but to me it's primarily that Anakin uses the dark side because of his love for others, and then is overcome by his lust for power, losing everything else. Kylo wants power at first, but his love for others makes him conflicted and even when Kylo has all the power (and all that Vader wanted), he's not fulfilled. I think that ultimately, the only person that can "save" Kylo is himself.

 

[TonTon]

I disagree with this, in regards to Finn.

I think people just tend to assume that because he defected from the First Order that he was part of the Resistance at the end of TFA.

He wasn't.

He was on his way out of the system, after Maz's, and only went with Han because Rey had been kidnapped. He lies to the Resistance command and tells them that he knows how to shut off the shields just because he wants to rescue Rey. At this point, he still isn't part of the Resistance and doesn't really care about them, he just wants to save Rey.

Spoiler

At the beginning of TLJ, he is caught by Rose trying to leave, because, once again, he isn't fighting for their cause, he's just worried about Rey.

It's only after seeing all the stuff on Canto Brite that he realizes that he should help the Resistance fight the First Order, and when Phasma calls him "scum," he replies that he is "Rebel Scum," signaling that he has finally realized that their cause is worthwhile and he is finally onboard with it.

This is Finn's character arc for TLJ. Maybe it's not as flashy as everything that Rey and Kylo go through, but it's there and it's important to him as a character. It's setting him up to be a "hero" now.

I see your point for sure, but I guess part of it for me was his storyline overall didn't really work for me--wasn't compelling and contained some of the weakest elements of the movie--and some of the themes of that part of the story is that warring sides are all the same, but yet he decides to become a rebel (even though that's not what they are called in this movie. They also played his TFA injury up for laughs, didn't seem to give it any sort of similar seriousness the way we saw Ren having his scar grafting, when in reality Finn's injury seemed far more grave. I think in that sense they did a disservice to the character. He had an arc, I agree, but is he a more interesting character? Not by any means (to me). His chemistry with Rey worked for me and without that his character storyline did not come across as compelling. Instead they teamed him up with someone of questionable chemistry--would have preferred if it was Poe since the main 3 had very few scenes together in this flick.

They've set up so little for the third movie I can't even help but not care what it's about. Empire created so much conflict by its end and this has wrapped up so many issues. Only two things were accomplished from a dramatic/narrative point of view--It's Rey vs Kylo now (meaning no Snoke and no Luke and she may still want to turn him) and the resistance is weaker. There's not much else of import with the characters.

The end of Empire has Han frozen, a plan to free him, the empire and Vader clearly still wanting to turn Luke. Luke more injured, Leia using the force. The reveal that Vader is Luke's father, which might provide some rationale for him to turn, and also give him the need for answers from Yoda/Ben about why they didn't tell him the truth, etc.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Basically:

Finn - discovers everything isn't black/white and decides he wants to fight for a cause. Stops running from everything.

I commend you on a well-thought-out and thorough post. But, I don't understand why Finn would be motivated to join the Resistance by realizing that there are shades of gray between good and evil. As Ton Ton explains . . .

. . . and some of the themes of that part of the story is that warring sides are all the same, but yet he decides to become a rebel . . .

The Canto Bight effects on Finn would seem to logically draw him away from committing to the good side since he learned that the good is "gray" sometimes. If he had instead realized that good is fully virtuous, and evil is without any virtue, then that would make more sense to have him commit to the side of the good. That's part of the reason why Canto Bight can be seen as useless. But that's only one of many reasons.

 

[ajp4mgs]

The Saber Ben(Kylo) has in the flashback is NOT the Skywalker saber. It is basically a silver version of Kylo's saber without the crossguard on it. Here: https://imgur.com/0zsQOyB

It is being discussed over at the RPF here:

https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=284848&page=2

Thank you for providing the definitive visual evidence. Much appreciated. But . . .

. . . damn. So it would seem to be a lightsaber that "speaks" not only to Rey, but to Kylo as well. (sigh) Okay, I'm gonna go convince myself that this isn't stupid. But, before I go, I'd like to try to make up for my participation in the derailing of this thread with a legitimate question that I have: Can someone confirm that the Endor version of the ROTJ Luke is definitely being released as a separate figure? I want/need ROTJ Luke, but I'd hate to order this one only to learn that a little while later, they add a poncho and helmeted head sculpt into a deluxe version of it.

 

[SilverStar17]

I see your point for sure, but I guess part of it for me was his storyline overall didn't really work for me--wasn't compelling and contained some of the weakest elements of the movie--and some of the themes of that part of the story is that warring sides are all the same, but yet he decides to become a rebel (even though that's not what they are called in this movie. They also played his TFA injury up for laughs, didn't seem to give it any sort of similar seriousness the way we saw Ren having his scar grafting, when in reality Finn's injury seemed far more grave. I think in that sense they did a disservice to the character. He had an arc, I agree, but is he a more interesting character? Not by any means (to me). His chemistry with Rey worked for me and without that his character storyline did not come across as compelling. Instead they teamed him up with someone of questionable chemistry--would have preferred if it was Poe since the main 3 had very few scenes together in this flick.

They've set up so little for the third movie I can't even help but not care what it's about. Empire created so much conflict by its end and this has wrapped up so many issues. Only two things were accomplished from a dramatic/narrative point of view--It's Rey vs Kylo now (meaning no Snoke and no Luke and she may still want to turn him) and the resistance is weaker. There's not much else of import with the characters.

The end of Empire has Han frozen, a plan to free him, the empire and Vader clearly still wanting to turn Luke. Luke more injured, Leia using the force. The reveal that Vader is Luke's father, which might provide some rationale for him to turn, and also give him the need for answers from Yoda/Ben about why they didn't tell him the truth, etc.

Tanker made some good points regarding Finn that I hadn't considered myself, but these are my sentiments as well. I really liked Finn in TFA, but TLJ actually made me more disinterested in him than more interested. Perhaps it's all part of his arc, but I can't help but feel his role in TLJ was more of a regression than where he was in TFA and the potential he had.

I concur that the only two characters they left with any substance or weight to them is Rey and Kylo (perhaps intentional). Whereas in the OT, by the time you got to RotJ, you still had several plots going on at once that all came to a conclusion.

I wouldn't go as far as saying I couldn't care less about Episode IX now because it's still SW; it has my interest on that alone. However, IX certainly has a lot of ground to cover and questions to answer. TLJ raised more questions than it did answer any previous ones.

Poe - Goes from hotheaded pilot to being primed to be a leader, knowing when to back off and be smart.

Perhaps it's just me, but Poe seemed more hot headed in TLJ than he did in TFA.

 

[Goongala]

Anyhoo, I'm really looking forward to the figure. I'll be going with a hooded lightsaber pose just like in the deleted scene with him in the cave. That was always a look I dig. Too bad he never ignites old green while wearing his cloak.

 

[Lee in MI]

Wow...I’ve seemed to stumble across another TLJ movie thread

 

[Hoody999]

Wow...I’ve seemed to stumble across another TLJ movie thread

Haha, yeah I had to check I was in the right thread. ROTJ Luke is correct.

He's no where to be seen here............or in TLJ ;-)

 

[Creighton]

So wish the mods would step in.

 

[Smash]

Does anyone know if this will come with a saber holding hand that isn't the light up arm? It's not shown in pics and so far all the poses make it look like it'll be attached.

 

[One-Figure-Collector]

He is my Luke Skywalker!

 

[SilverStar17]

Does anyone know if this will come with a saber holding hand that isn't the light up arm? It's not shown in pics and so far all the poses make it look like it'll be attached.

Well it has a couple of issues from what I see, that I presume will be rectified:

1. No gloved non light up saber holding hand.
2. No bare light up saber holding arm/hand.

From what I can tell, it looks like it has a right bare saber holding hand, but I'm not entirely sure.

As mentioned though, I presume these are things HT will end up including.

 

[davejames]

Anyhoo, I'm really looking forward to the figure. I'll be going with a hooded lightsaber pose just like in the deleted scene with him in the cave. That was always a look I dig. Too bad he never ignites old green while wearing his cloak.

Oh I'm sure that won't stop anyone from still posing him that way anyway.

Personally I've never been quite as fond of the cloaked look as others here, and thought all his other looks in the film were a lot cooler.

 

[willocrew]

Please keep discussions related to ROTJ. We do not need to refenerence the recent film travesty.

On tha note.. Hot toys should really add a bone accessory for the rancor scene. Haven't seen any pics of that.

 

[The Green Goblin]

Please keep discussions related to ROTJ. We do not need to refenerence the recent film travesty.

On tha note.. Hot toys should really add a bone accessory for the rancor scene. Haven't seen any pics of that.

Why would anyone talk about Justice League in the Star Wars section?

 

[MaulFan]

On tha note.. Hot toys should really add a bone accessory for the rancor scene. Haven't seen any pics of that.

I liked that Sideshow included the bone he used to jam the Rancor's mouth.