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/\ This exactly!
TFA and TLJ have been the biggest, most disappointing films I have ever witnessed. To the point where I’m constantly questioning wether I should continue my obsession with Star Wars. For me these films have really tainted the franchise beyond repair.

Then just pretend they don't exist and stop spending all of your time getting upset about them? Just watch 1-6 or 4-6, whatever floats your boat. I'm not sure why you guys choose to spend your time actively writing posts about how much you dislike something. I thought Rogue One was crap, but I don't spend any time thinking about it or writing rants about it, and I let the people who liked/loved it enjoy it. End result? It doesn't bug me at all and I just watch the other films. Simple as that. They're just movies, dude. It's as simple as not spending time on things you dislike (watching, writing, thinking, etc).
 
Then just pretend they don't exist and stop spending all of your time getting upset about them? Just watch 1-6 or 4-6, whatever floats your boat. I'm not sure why you guys choose to spend your time actively writing posts about how much you dislike something. I thought Rogue One was crap, but I don't spend any time thinking about it or writing rants about it, and I let the people who liked/loved it enjoy it. End result? It doesn't bug me at all and I just watch the other films. Simple as that. They're just movies, dude. It's as simple as not spending time on things you dislike (watching, writing, thinking, etc).

“They’re just movies” I completely agree. TFA and TLJ are just movies, and there’s my issue with these films in a nutshell. We deserved better. I waited 39 years to see a sequel worthy of the original Star Wars legendary films. I’m still waiting.
 
Switching the head sculpt to TFA body immediately when I got it from Secret Base. No doubt, this is the perfect Luke I’ve been looking for.


04a4d49412a0f6550bec039731203774.jpg



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“They’re just movies” I completely agree. TFA and TLJ are just movies, and there’s my issue with these films in a nutshell. We deserved better. I waited 39 years to see a sequel worthy of the original Star Wars legendary films. I’m still waiting.
They're ALL just movies, dude XD The fact that you've spent 39 years putting them up on a pedestal doesn't entitle you to anything. In fact it probably guarantees that nobody else's vision is going to live up to the expectations you've set in your head.

This whole "We deserve" or "They owe us" fan mentality has got to stop. Being a fan is mostly a retroactive transaction; someone makes something and you decide to like it (or not). But people keep turning it into a proactive endeavor, as if buying a toy or liking a movie for 39 years somehow amounts to a contract that stipulates that all FUTURE content must satisfy as well.

Those are unrealistic expectations to set for ANY creator, but especially once you hit a fanbase the size of Star Wars.

A franchise will live or die based on its fans, of course. And when a creator puts out content, they are obviously hoping as many people as possible will enjoy it. But the reality is, that doesn't always mean the exact same people that enjoyed the previous bit. Voice your opinion. Vote with your wallet. But also accept that perhaps the franchise will be just fine without you. It's not worth letting this upset you so much, to the point where it's affecting other things you like.

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Here’s why I disagree with you that he didn’t know he was making a divisive film. All the questions posed by The Force Awakens were essentially disregarded. Characters were wasted and handled poorly. You can argue that he went in a different direction than expected, but I pretty much view his handling of the plots presented as being tossed out and characters made into jokes as something he did because he thought he was being clever or something.

Rey’s parents. They’re just no one. She’s just an anomaly of the Force. Just an over-powered person for absolutely no reason. I say over-powered because she can essentially do it all by the end of the first film (weild a lightsaber and win a duel, use Force powers with no training, and on top of those two skills is also a pretty decent pilot). Some of the over-powered aspects of her fall on Abrams, but Johnson still gave a complete non-answer on why she might be important.

Snoke. Complete joke of a character that’s taken out like a chump. I can’t agree with him being just a stock villain character as we don’t see him do much of anything to really determine that’s the case. The potential to do something interesting with him was there. That potential was just not expanded on.

The Knights of Ren. Not even acknowledged by the film.

Finn. Standout character from The Force Awakens is given one of the stupidest and most pointless subplots in any Star Wars film. It almost would have been better if we wasn’t in the film because he’s completely wasted and feels like an afterthought.

Same with Poe. Sure he “learns a lesson” but only in the most completely forced way possible by the overbearing stupidity of Holdo.

And then there’s Luke. Now look I’ll say this, the fact that he’s a grumpy old man who’s in isolation on Ach-To isn’t what bothers me most with his character. I could actually buy that to be truthful. Where it took a turn for me is his death by far. I’d actually be a lot more accepting of him in the film if he didn’t die in it. Especially in the fashion that he did. Luke is Star Wars to a lot of us and to have him go out how he did is just a massive disappointment.

I don’t know exactly what I’d have done differently, but I do know I wouldn’t have killed him right away (if that was absolutely I’d have waited until Episode IX) and if it would have been my choice to do so it definitely wouldn’t be as some lame *** projection.

The line that Kylo speaks: “let the past die, kill it if you have to” along with things like the lightsaber toss to me show Johnson’s complete lack of respect for the franchise and the fans of it. It’s basically like he’s saying: I don’t care about the past of this franchise, I don’t care about the fans or their expectations; all I care about is my film and the story I want to tell, everything else be damned. That’s a messed up way to handle a beloved franchise like this. If he didn’t know he was making a divisive film he must have been completely blind to his own vision of what he was going for.

You do know we still have another film right? Most of your complaints are about not knowing answers. Well every single one of these could be answered in the final film.

If I were making a trilogy I would hold out the answers to these burning questions till the last film also.

He may have been contractually obligated to as well.....



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....
 
You do know we still have another film right? Most of your complaints are about not knowing answers. Well every single one of these could be answered in the final film.

If I were making a trilogy I would hold out the answers to these burning questions till the last film also.

He may have been contractually obligated to as well.....



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....
The only question that can really be answered by Episode IX is about the Knights of Ren. It could maybe double down on Rey’s parents but who really knows if that will happen. Johnson did what he did because he had no obligations because there’s no set story for the films. That’s the problem. He still chose to handle aspects of the film poorly in my opinion, but Disney and Abrams are to blame as well.
 
Switching the head sculpt to TFA body immediately when I got it from Secret Base. No doubt, this is the perfect Luke I’ve been looking for.


04a4d49412a0f6550bec039731203774.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This looks incredible! That was my plan as well , can't wait to get it in this week from HK
 
The last portion of your post misses the entire point of the movie. The whole point of the movie is learning from the past, not killing it. Every one of the other points you're complaining about has been debated and rebutted to death. Things like Rey's parents, Snoke, etc... JJ never even had a clue about. Maybe you should blame JJ for setting up just a retread of the OT. Is that what you would have preferred?
No, I understand the supposed point of the film. I just don’t really buy it. Abrams is to blame as well I agree, but Johnson also could have used more creativity than just tossing out a lot of the important plots and not giving us answers. The questions posed are essentially all given non-answers. You can say he answered things in unexpected ways, but really all he did was avoid plot threads set up previously.

Why does every Jedi/force user suddenly need to be part of a specific bloodline or something? That didn't even ****ing matter until the prequels made Anakin space jesus. Luke's importance in the OT being Vader's son was never about Luke's power, it was about his familial tie with Vader and his ability to save his father. That's why Luke was "the only hope". Go watch some vids with Lucas talking about the story of the original trilogy if you still think it's about Luke being space jesus 2. And frankly, wouldn't that be more boring if Rey were Luke's kid? It's what tons of people expected when they yawned at TFA being the OT greatest hits remix.
It’s not about being tied to a bloodline necessarily, but The Force Awakens did plant that seed like she was more than a nobody. So getting a non-answer and just saying her parents are no one is completely unsatisfying.

As much as I like Rey and Daisy Ridley she’s a very over-powered character for no apparent reason. All the things that she’s able to do in the span of one film without training makes her seem as such. I could buy her being able to pilot a ship for instance. That’s fine and makes sense. Being good in combat. Sure, she has her staff and has been in duels before. Even still though the fact that the lightsaber, which is a weapon of importance to this franchise is something that she can just pick up and use no problem is a bit much. Especially when she essentially defeats Kylo who’s more skilled and has some training in their first encounter is hard to swallow. Force powers I have an issue with. Luke and Anakin didn’t really have any powers the first time we saw them. Both had to be trained to harness their abilities. Here comes Rey though who can do it all just because. Even if you view them as minor powers she’s still able to use the Force to her advantage and doesn’t really falter.

I think it’s a combination of her having basically every ability of Luke and Anakin in one film without an explanation of why or without her being trained that makes me view her as over-powered. A lot of this falls on Abrams again but Johnson could have given more of an explanation.

What would you have liked Snoke to be? Did you want him to give a monologue during the movie about his entire past and how he's connected to a character 80% of audiences don't care about? Would you prefer if he lived into 9 so that it could be ROTJ 2.0? If Snoke were going to be explained in any way and expanded on, it should have been done in TFA. He was never interesting to begin with, he simply existed as the emperor figure for Kylo in TFA. Why is having something new, like him being dead and Kylo being in charge less exciting to you than another rehash?
This is kind of a cop out of a response. As I mentioned Snoke had potential but we never saw that potential reached. Having him get killed off right away was certainly an unexpected twist, but it also feels lazy and is unsatisfying. It’s another example of The Last Jedi literally cutting down a character/plot point put in place by the previous film.

Knights of Ren, again - JJ. Could have been in TFA, they're in one shot and mentioned once. Where would they go in TLJ? They're actually mentioned in TLJ (the handful of students Kylo took), but they have no place in that story. Would they just follow Kylo around his ship? They couldn't have been the guards. At least now they have an actual reason and opportunity to suddenly be in IX. It would make sense for Kylo to have them as his personal guard similar to the Praetorians to Snoke.
Again like Snoke this just felt lazy. This is at least one thing Abrams can possibly rectify in Episode IX though as we don’t see them as far as we know so they possibly are still around.

Finn has an arc in the film, it might not be enjoyable for you, but it exists. Again, what would you have preferred for Finn? It seems like a lot of you guys think a character failing at something they set out to do or messing something up equates to a plot hole. Canto Bight certainly could have been a little more interesting as a whole, but for the character of Finn he has some interesting things going on in the film. He gets to see both sides of the war, how people just like to profit off it, etc - so he can make his decision for himself about what side to join and not who is "good" and "bad".
I didn’t say anything about this being a plot hole. It’s just a dumb plot for one of the main characters to have gotten. Most people agree this is the worst part of the entire film. Even those who love it don’t really defend it. I’d have preferred one of the main characters get a plot of significance rather than be wasted in a plot that does nothing to advance the story and is there only to give him something to do.

How is Holdo stupid? Would it make sense for a commander to tell a pilot who just ****ed up and got a ton of people killed their master plan? No, it's not important for the ***** to know what's going on. Poe goes on and screws stuff up further for himself. The only reason the First Order finds out about going to Crait is because Poe, Finn, and Rose.
So rather than telling Poe what her plan is, she allows him to resent her and strike off on his own and almost messes up her grand plan and kills a lot of her people. Pretty stupid if you ask me. I get it that they were at odds with each other, but it felt like they wanted to have a strong female put the man in his place even if it overall is pretty stupid.

Luke dies a pacifist on his own terms. No one kills him, Kylo doesn't get the satisfaction of beating him. What Luke does inspires those around the galaxy who were just like him to believe they can be more and for some to join the fight. If he had to die, that's a pretty good way to go. I don't really see him being the type to go out in the glory of battle or something like that.
Luke’s death simply didn’t resonate with me. His character deserved something better to go out on. He died on his own terms and honorably by saving the Resistance, but it felt pretty cheap to have him not actually be present. I don’t think he necessarily had to die in the first place, but if that was the route I wouldn’t have done it until Episode IX at least and in a fashion where he was actually present. The projection thing could have been a clever trick but shouldn’t have been how he ultimately dies off to me.

Anyway, everything I just said has been said by tons of others a million times before. If you don't like the movie, good for you. But I think a lot of your complaints about things like Rey and Snoke are misplaced on Rian, when your real issue is with JJ. And if you honestly think the message was "let the past die!", then yeah you missed the point of the movie.
I’m not saying your opinion is wrong. If you like the film then good for you. I wanted more than a director thinking they’re clever by subverting expectations and wasting plots and characters. The Sequel Trilogy ultimately feels like wasted potential, which is a shame as it was something a lot of us wanted and were unsure we’d get especially with all the main characters of the original cast. It happened and rather than being a satisfactory follow-up to the story feels like it’s just a cash grab like any other sequel. It’s disappointing more than anything.
 
The only question that can really be answered by Episode IX is about the Knights of Ren. It could maybe double down on Rey’s parents but who really knows if that will happen. Johnson did what he did because he had no obligations because there’s no set story for the films. That’s the problem. He still chose to handle aspects of the film poorly in my opinion, but Disney and Abrams are to blame as well.

Well we respectfully disagree. I personally we refreshed to have some mystery add back to the force. Much like Rebels which is returning to the OT version of the force , rather than the silly explanations given in PT.

To take the mystery of Vaders strength and turn it into genetics and magic blood, within the first 30 minutes of the PT really took away anything special about Anakin rise.

It also retroactively took away all of Luke’s accomplishments as “well hes got Skywalker blood”

I am so glad they steered away from thT and made the force something you can just be strong with, and not have any reason why.....

Like a cosmic lottery.





Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....
 
They're ALL just movies, dude XD The fact that you've spent 39 years putting them up on a pedestal doesn't entitle you to anything. In fact it probably guarantees that nobody else's vision is going to live up to the expectations you've set in your head.

This whole "We deserve" or "They owe us" fan mentality has got to stop. Being a fan is mostly a retroactive transaction; someone makes something and you decide to like it (or not). But people keep turning it into a proactive endeavor, as if buying a toy or liking a movie for 39 years somehow amounts to a contract that stipulates that all FUTURE content must satisfy as well.

Those are unrealistic expectations to set for ANY creator, but especially once you hit a fanbase the size of Star Wars.

A franchise will live or die based on its fans, of course. And when a creator puts out content, they are obviously hoping as many people as possible will enjoy it. But the reality is, that doesn't always mean the exact same people that enjoyed the previous bit. Voice your opinion. Vote with your wallet. But also accept that perhaps the franchise will be just fine without you. It's not worth letting this upset you so much, to the point where it's affecting other things you like.

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I get your points, all of them... I really do. I think the trouble for me and a lot of other older fans is that when we watched the original trilogy as kids, the whole Star Wars law instilled in us some very important life morals. To the point that it’s almost been a religion for me as far as wanting to live my life as a Jedi would. Star Wars was the very fabric of me evolving and growing as a person. I think maybe that’s why it’s SO gut wrenching when you see those very beliefs being almost made fun of by these recent films. It’s something that I just can’t seem to get my head around. But as you say they are just films now. Back then they were so much more than films, but people now find that hard to understand. It was a different time I guess.
 
I get your points, all of them... I really do. I think the trouble for me and a lot of other older fans is that when we watched the original trilogy as kids, the whole Star Wars law instilled in us some very important life morals. To the point that it’s almost been a religion for me as far as wanting to live my life as a Jedi would. Star Wars was the very fabric of me evolving and growing as a person. I think maybe that’s why it’s SO gut wrenching when you see those very beliefs being almost made fun of by these recent films. It’s something that I just can’t seem to get my head around. But as you say they are just films now. Back then they were so much more than films, but people now find that hard to understand. It was a different time I guess.

Okay that's a lot to unpack, and I'm going to try and not pass judgment on basically saying you feel like you needed these movies to teach you to be a decent person (I don't think ACTUAL religions should hold as much power over people as they do, nevermind a hokey sci fi movie), but I'm curious...

What moral or character lesson did the OT teach you, that you feel TFA/TLJ mocked?

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They're ALL just movies, dude XD The fact that you've spent 39 years putting them up on a pedestal doesn't entitle you to anything. In fact it probably guarantees that nobody else's vision is going to live up to the expectations you've set in your head.

This whole "We deserve" or "They owe us" fan mentality has got to stop. Being a fan is mostly a retroactive transaction; someone makes something and you decide to like it (or not). But people keep turning it into a proactive endeavor, as if buying a toy or liking a movie for 39 years somehow amounts to a contract that stipulates that all FUTURE content must satisfy as well.

Those are unrealistic expectations to set for ANY creator, but especially once you hit a fanbase the size of Star Wars.

A franchise will live or die based on its fans, of course. And when a creator puts out content, they are obviously hoping as many people as possible will enjoy it. But the reality is, that doesn't always mean the exact same people that enjoyed the previous bit. Voice your opinion. Vote with your wallet. But also accept that perhaps the franchise will be just fine without you. It's not worth letting this upset you so much, to the point where it's affecting other things you like.

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While I personally didn’t overly care for TLJ as an entire movie, I do agree with this post for the most part.

I liked components of it, and while I didn’t care for the film as a whole as I mentioned, I don’t have a visceral hatred for it like a lot of people do. When it comes down to it, they are indeed just movies. My entire livelihood is not ruined because of one SW episode that I didn’t particularly care for.

I get a lot of fans are passionate and that’s a good thing, but I also think there’s a such thing as being hyperbolic and needing to get a grip, to put it mildly. And that goes for both camps. I think at the same time, there’s also a lot of people that loved the film who are overly sensitive and get their panties in a bunch as if they’re gravely insulted any time someone simply voices one criticism about the film by basically saying, “well if you didn’t like it, then just shut up.” Which comes across as autocratic to me and as a way to shut down uncomfortable discussion that they don’t like.

I didn’t care for Episode I or II either, but liked components of them. Episode VIII is simply added to the list as being one of the episodes I didn’t particularly care for. No big deal.

I’m over it at this point.
 
Here’s why I disagree with you that he didn’t know he was making a divisive film. All the questions posed by The Force Awakens were essentially disregarded. Characters were wasted and handled poorly. You can argue that he went in a different direction than expected, but I pretty much view his handling of the plots presented as being tossed out and characters made into jokes as something he did because he thought he was being clever or something.

Rey’s parents. They’re just no one. She’s just an anomaly of the Force. Just an over-powered person for absolutely no reason. I say over-powered because she can essentially do it all by the end of the first film (weild a lightsaber and win a duel, use Force powers with no training, and on top of those two skills is also a pretty decent pilot). Some of the over-powered aspects of her fall on Abrams, but Johnson still gave a complete non-answer on why she might be important.

Snoke. Complete joke of a character that’s taken out like a chump. I can’t agree with him being just a stock villain character as we don’t see him do much of anything to really determine that’s the case. The potential to do something interesting with him was there. That potential was just not expanded on.

The Knights of Ren. Not even acknowledged by the film.

Finn. Standout character from The Force Awakens is given one of the stupidest and most pointless subplots in any Star Wars film. It almost would have been better if we wasn’t in the film because he’s completely wasted and feels like an afterthought.

Same with Poe. Sure he “learns a lesson” but only in the most completely forced way possible by the overbearing stupidity of Holdo.

And then there’s Luke. Now look I’ll say this, the fact that he’s a grumpy old man who’s in isolation on Ach-To isn’t what bothers me most with his character. I could actually buy that to be truthful. Where it took a turn for me is his death by far. I’d actually be a lot more accepting of him in the film if he didn’t die in it. Especially in the fashion that he did. Luke is Star Wars to a lot of us and to have him go out how he did is just a massive disappointment.

I don’t know exactly what I’d have done differently, but I do know I wouldn’t have killed him right away (if that was absolutely I’d have waited until Episode IX) and if it would have been my choice to do so it definitely wouldn’t be as some lame *** projection.

The line that Kylo speaks: “let the past die, kill it if you have to” along with things like the lightsaber toss to me show Johnson’s complete lack of respect for the franchise and the fans of it. It’s basically like he’s saying: I don’t care about the past of this franchise, I don’t care about the fans or their expectations; all I care about is my film and the story I want to tell, everything else be damned. That’s a messed up way to handle a beloved franchise like this. If he didn’t know he was making a divisive film he must have been completely blind to his own vision of what he was going for.

My sentiments exactly. I could have written this. I love Star Wars and always will, but I’m pretending these films never happened. I’m still sad that I didn’t like either sequel film. There was no need to erase the ot characters and kill off han and Luke. They should be like Batman or Superman and not die on screen, just my opinion. They could have appeared for a few minutes in a dignitary type role and that’s it. Everyone is happy, we see the old gang, and onto new characters. Hand over the mission to poe Rey and Finn. It would have been that simple. Ren didn’t need to be related either. Now you watch the end of Jedi and think, poor han is going to get murdered by his brat son and chewie will care for 3 seconds and Luke won’t even know.
I would love to have new merchandise to buy and be invested in new characters. I loved thrawn, Mara jade, the solo twins, and the eu. I also loved Jyn, cassian, and k2. The st just wasn’t for me.
 
Then just pretend they don't exist and stop spending all of your time getting upset about them? Just watch 1-6 or 4-6, whatever floats your boat. I'm not sure why you guys choose to spend your time actively writing posts about how much you dislike something. I thought Rogue One was crap, but I don't spend any time thinking about it or writing rants about it, and I let the people who liked/loved it enjoy it. End result? It doesn't bug me at all and I just watch the other films. Simple as that. They're just movies, dude. It's as simple as not spending time on things you dislike (watching, writing, thinking, etc).

Wow - you’re on fire. Keep up the good work.
 
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