Indiana Jones & The Kingdom of The Crystal Skull Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[MaulFan]

I can understand that. I am an American History buff, so the 20's through the 70's especially intrigue me. America went through some monumental changes during those years, some for good, some for bad.

But the 50's was a very paranoid time, the Red Scare, Aliens, Atomic War... it was all over the place. This film captured the time period perfectly IMO.

My only knowledge of dealings with Russia and KGB and all that comes from the Greatest American Hero show, as 90% of the time the storylines had to do with the KGB, and I know nothing about the reality of Area 51/ Roswell and all of that, just the fiction of the X-Files and such.

One cool thing in this movie was seeing the Ark exposed during the fight in the beginning.

It's too bad Harrison's so old, I actually would like to see a fith Indy be about his adventures in 1947 that they referred to, but at Ford's age now, a semi-prequel like TOD wouldn't work probably.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Josh sure you could have. You didn't need a space ship flying off to maybe just touch on the fact that tools of the times couldn't have made the skulls. I myself follow this sort of thing. I think they pushed it too far. Way too far. But to each his own. I still kinda liked it. But feel more like a disappointed parent must feel like. Like you did ok but just not as good as I know you could sorta way.

I don't know man... Most of Crystal Skull lore points to "Gods" from the sky, that just happen to look strangely like our modern day Aliens. So it was really needed in the film to really pay homage to the legend AND to the B movies of the 50's.

And Irish, I totally agree... they followed the structure of the B movies of the 50's perfectly..

And the reaction just goes to show that many people either don't remember that or they didn't like them to begin with.

 

[BadMoon]

I also think some of my distaste can come from the fact that when I first watched Indy I was a child. So he was cooler than ice to me. Now I can watch a new movie as an adult and it just wasn't the same. Maybe it is Lucas maybe it is me. I just know that this movie isn't on the same playing field. I would even go as far as saying that this movie is worse than Episode 1. Yes I do mean that. This is IMO worse than The Phantom Menace.

 

[MaulFan]

I don't know man... Most of Crystal Skull lore points to "Gods" from the sky, that just happen to look strangely like our modern day Aliens. So it was really needed in the film to really pay homage to the legend AND to the B movies of the 50's.

Here's where I wish I'd seen Indy before this film got started to follow along with all the developments.

So there is an actual Crystal Skull myth in the world? I thought this one was based purely from the minds of the writers with no actual mythology behind it.

And the reaction just goes to show that many people either don't remember that or they didn't like them to begin with.

Or the third case, mine, never seeing any of them at all hehe.

 

[IrishJedi]

I think you just absolutely nailed the review in a way. It was a B movie.

Uh... yeah. ALL of the Indy movies are B-movies. They were all conceived and designed that way from the very beginning. The only difference is that the first 3 were send-ups of Republic Serials (the B-movies of the 30s and 40s) because they took place in the era and this one is a send-up of the B-movies of the late 50s Cold War. And I think it works perfectly in that regard at least.

 

[anti-hero]

Saw it at noon. Liked it. Now that I've had a few hours to think about I've started to like it even more (was that way for me with Superman Returns and FOTR too, tho I don't know why). I definitly want to see it again to see how it holds up to a second viewing.

Cheese? Yeah, the "oh fine, leave without me" line or whatever it was. Plus a few lines when he first sees Marion again were pretty cheesy. But there was also dialogue that I really loved. "Intolerable!"

And there were some points that seemed too far fetched to me (Marion driving onto the tree, the tarzan gag, the fridge) but then I realized it wasn't any worse than surviving jumping from a plane on a raft onto a mountain...or the fact that the Germans (in Raiders) could've just pulled the convoy over at any time and shot him dead. Or that they didn't kill him after he allowed himself to be captured (real Dr. Evil moment there)...or that a U-Boat would travel a long distance without submerging and drowning there topside hitch-hiker...the list goes on. I think that those are just more forgivable since I remember them from being a kid and the new one I saw for the first time as an adult. I remember my dad would watch these with me and just roll his eyes cause he knew how far fetched they were.

I loved that he goes by Henry now, and that he really has aged as a character. And the alien theme doesn't bug me at all. The franchise has already established multiple gods/God...so why not add in aliens. Makes perfect sense to me.

Plus, going in I really wanted to see Shia trying to put on the hat and him grabbing it from him...and it happened! In my mind it was more of a "Gimme that!" kinda thing, but it was still cool to see.

 

[IrishJedi]

So there is an actual Crystal Skull myth in the world? I thought this one was based purely from the minds of the writers with no actual mythology behind it

Yep. They even mentioned it explicitly: The Mitchell-Hedges Skull.

And the Nazca Lines... Those are real.

 

[BadMoon]

Uh... yeah. ALL of the Indy movies are B-movies. They were all conceived and designed that way from the very beginning. The only difference is that the first 3 were send-ups of Republic Serials (the B-movies of the 30s and 40s) because they took place in the era and this one is a send-up of the B-movies of the late 50s Cold War. And I think it works perfectly in that regard anyway.

That is just crap. The original movies can never be put into that category. They are classics. Never were B movies. Toxic Avengers is a B movie. Would you hold Indy in that same class? Hell no. Take that argument some place else.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Here's where I wish I'd seen Indy before this film got started to follow along with all the developments.

So there is an actual Crystal Skull myth in the world? I thought this one was based purely from the minds of the writers with no actual mythology behind it.



Or the third case, mine, never seeing any of them at all hehe.

Oh yeah. You should read up on it, really interesting stuff. That the Crystal Skulls were created by the "Gods" of the Mayans, and when the Mayan calendar ends in 2012, the 13 skulls will have to be brought together to save the planet from certain doom. There is a whole lot more to it as well, if you study it. Crazy legend, but a very interesting one.

 

[MaulFan]

Yep. They even mentioned it explicitly: The Mitchell-Hedges Skull.

And the Nazca Lines... Those are real.

The lines I remembered vaguely from school history class, and the Holy Grail and Ark of the Covenant I'd heard of before, though no details, but the Crystal Skull myth I'd never heard of before Indy. Maybe I'll do some research before watching this movie again, could strengthen the weakpoints I found.

Carl, what are your thoughts on Mutt?

 

[Entropy]

Exactly. The alien element (the whole McGuffin, actually) is my favorite aspect of the movie. It's probably the one positive contribution Lucas made to the flick.

I can buy aliens in an Indy film. Even an alien that has crystal bones. Just not the way they handled it in this film. A dead alien's skull has magical magnetic power as well as mind control power and when brought back to the rest of the skeleton it flies up, reattaches to the neck, reanimates the skeleton, the 13 alien skeletons reform into a living alien, it zaps head exploding knowledge into someone's mind and then reactivates the saucer and dimensional portal it came from? A bit too over the top for me.

 

[RevRanger]

ANOTHER thing!


Some people think aliens created us/put us here. Same people who believe in the crystal skull stuff.

Some people believe God created us/put us here.

The end of Indy 1 and 3 shows that the stories of God and Christ are true.

The end of Indy 4 shows that the stories of aliens being our Gods/creators are true.

Both stories can't exist and be true in the same world!!!

 

[DarkArtist81]

That is just crap. The original movies can never be put into that category. They are classics. Never were B movies. Toxic Avengers is a B movie. Would you hold Indy in that same class? Hell no. Take that argument some place else.

But that is what the original films were built to be. They were homages to the Republic serials of the 30's. They were always over the top, the hero always managed to survive crazy situations and they ALWAYS kept their hats on. The Indy films were made to reflect those serials.

And they were very much B movies.

 

[anti-hero]

ANOTHER thing!


Some people think aliens created us/put us here. Same people who believe in the crystal skull stuff.

Some people believe God created us/put us here.

The end of Indy 1 and 3 shows that the stories of God and Christ are true.

The end of Indy 4 shows that the stories of aliens being our Gods/creators are true.

Both stories can't exist and be true in the same world!!!

You left out the Hindu gods that were credited as real in TOD. The series had already established multiple gods that contradict each other, so aliens fit right in IMO.

 

[Bardoon]

Josh sure you could have. You didn't need a space ship flying off to maybe just touch on the fact that tools of the times couldn't have made the skulls. I myself follow this sort of thing. I think they pushed it too far. Way too far. But to each his own. I still kinda liked it. But feel more like a disappointed parent must feel like. Like you did ok but just not as good as I know you could sorta way.

I feel the same sentiment. I totally know and understand about the 50's "flying saucer craze", the red scare, yadda yadda...but I just feel aliens and Indy don't mix well. I know Indy wasn't looking for aliens or anything, but it just doesn't fit to me at first thought.

Holy Grail, Ark of the Covenant, Atlantis, The Pyramids, Ancient Tombs. I think there have been Indy video games, comics and novels that have overall could've been better.

And like people said before...Indy's motivation to go after Oxley was hard to sympathize with. I think it would've been better if Mutt dropped the bombshell that Marion was his mother and then you know Indy would've been off in a flash and there would've been some more audience CARE behind Indy's motivation to solve the Crystal Skull mystery and rescure Marion AND Oxley.

I think Koepp fell short on getting in some Indy "zingers" there. Ford did a good job and looked like he actually cared and was having fun. But there were definitely some moments that Indy could've said something funnier or more "Indy-like" in my opinion.

Regardless of the aliens, it still could've been handled BETTER. They could've been a more "shadowy" and "hinted at" element instead of blatantly shown (same with the UFO). Hence keeping them more of a mystery and somewhat distant. They could've done without showing the alien body and even the alien at the end.

It just didn't feel like an Indy movie as much as I was hoping for.

 

[IrishJedi]

That is just crap. The original movies can never be put into that category. They are classics. Never were B movies. Toxic Avengers is a B movie. Would you hold Indy in that same class? Hell no. Take that argument some place else.

You have much to learn about the creation and purpose of the INDY films, my friend.

 

[Entropy]

Or the Christian and Hindu gods are actually crystal skulled aliens?

 

[BadMoon]

But that is what the original films were built to be. They were homages to the Republic serials of the 30's. They were always over the top, the hero always managed to survive crazy situations and they ALWAYS kept their hats on. The Indy films were made to reflect those serials.

And they were very much B movies.

No way. They were made in the same spirit but never considered that by the public, critics, or fans. That is like calling Star Wars a B movie becuse Lucas was influenced by serials. Just because they were influenced by them does not mean they are or were them.

 

[RevRanger]

yeah but were the hindu gods PROVEN to be real in TOD?

 

[DarkArtist81]

ANOTHER thing!


Some people think aliens created us/put us here. Same people who believe in the crystal skull stuff.

Some people believe God created us/put us here.

The end of Indy 1 and 3 shows that the stories of God and Christ are true.

The end of Indy 4 shows that the stories of aliens being our Gods/creators are true.

Both stories can't exist and be true in the same world!!!

The existence of Aliens in this story does NOT mean that they are the creators. Just that they were revered as Gods by the primitive peoples who came into contact with them. And that they gave them knowledge in trade for their obedience and help obtaining knowledge of this world.

It in NO way negates the existence of God or the older Indy stories.