Is it the Dark Side that makes SW fans so evil?

[pickard]

Not seeing the flaw is ignorance. Seeing the flaw and pretending it isn't there is worse.

Seeing the flaws and still appreciating the piece, being happy with it, praising it, that's your right and I never said otherwise.

 

[Anzik]

There were also people out there who found no flaws in Hasbros 12" offerings, yet most collectors would scoff at them.

 

[customizerwannabe]

Originally Posted by customizerwannabe
SS does a great job of producing SW items, but they are far from perfect.


That is an opinion, and just because others share it doesn't make it right, it's possible for SSC's products to be beyond perfect for some people as they are, you guys have to open minded that just because you are unhappy and have higher standards doesn't make you the dictator of how items should be, if you want to, start your own company and make your own products how you want them, in the mean time accept that companies do it how they do it, and for some people it's dead on, for others it's way off, and for the middle ground it's ok but room for growth, that's just how it is.

Actually, thanks for supporting my point.

 

[The Josh]

That is an opinion, and just because others share it doesn't make it right, it's possible for SSC's products to be beyond perfect for some people as they are, you guys have to open minded that just because you are unhappy and have higher standards doesn't make you the dictator of how items should be, if you want to, start your own company and make your own products how you want them, in the mean time accept that companies do it how they do it, and for some people it's dead on, for others it's way off, and for the middle ground it's ok but room for growth, that's just how it is.

Right what may be to my liking is my liking. Doesn't make it perfect per say overall but doesn't discount another's opinion either.

 

[The Josh]

Not seeing the flaw is ignorance. Seeing the flaw and pretending it isn't there is worse.

Seeing the flaws and still appreciating the piece, being happy with it, praising it, that's your right and I never said otherwise.

What if I don't see it as a flaw? You do. That doesn't make me ignorant. For you to say so is more judgemental than anything I could do here.

I'll say it one more time. If you feel someone like me is ignorant for not seeing a flaw that you see then I'm sorry for you.

 

[MaulFan]

Actually, thanks for supporting my point.

I don't think you a point to be supported.

 

[pickard]

There are flaws in SSC's product. Not one has been perfect. I'm sure SS would say so, even if some people here won't.

We're not talking about any specific flaw in this discussion, but, yes, "flaws" can be subjective. You might not see some minor thing as a flaw. Theoretically what one person might see as a flaw, another could see as a strength. There are grey areas.

Some flaws or imperfections aren't so grey. There are obvious spots where improvement can be made.

For example, the production paint job on the Obi-Wan 12" is inferior to the prototype. If you don't see that, you're ignorant. Though technically a matter of opinion, it's so bloody obvious that you'd have to be a complete fool not to recognize it.

Is it a flaw? Yes, if you go by the dictionary definition of a flaw as "a feature that mars the perfection of something".

Does it make the piece bad? Does it make it not worth buying? Does it make you hate SS? That's all subjective.

But it's a flaw.

 

[Brent72]

That is an opinion, and just because others share it doesn't make it right, it's possible for SSC's products to be beyond perfect for some people as they are, you guys have to open minded that just because you are unhappy and have higher standards doesn't make you the dictator of how items should be, if you want to, start your own company and make your own products how you want them, in the mean time accept that companies do it how they do it, and for some people it's dead on, for others it's way off, and for the middle ground it's ok but room for growth, that's just how it is.

Come on, man. You can't seriously sit there with a straight face and say everything SS does is 100% spot-on perfect. Anyone with an unbiased view can see that. Like I said in another post(somewhere among the many threads on this whole debate) Sideshow is light years ahead of Hasbro, but they are far from perfect.

 

[The Josh]

For example, the production paint job on the Obi-Wan 12" is inferior to the prototype. If you don't see that, you're ignorant. Though technically a matter of opinion, it's so bloody obvious that you'd have to be a complete fool not to recognize it.

So in other words if a person doesn't agree with you on this then they're ignorant. That's so awesome that you're the end all be all on what is a flaw and what isn't. Funny people get on to me for being judgemental. Yet, at most I might say someone is acting childish but I don't recall saying someone was ignorant for not agreeing.

But it's a flaw.

In your opinion.

 

[The Josh]

Come on, man. You can't seriously sit there with a straight face and say everything SS does is 100% spot-on perfect. Anyone with an unbiased view can see that. Like I said in another post(somewhere among the many threads on this whole debate) Sideshow is light years ahead of Hasbro, but they are far from perfect.

As a whole no SS is not a 100% perfect. I will even say that. However, just because someone doesn't see as many flaws as the next then that doesn't make them ignorant nor their opinion any less valuable.

 

[Brent72]

For example, the production paint job on the Obi-Wan 12" is inferior to the prototype. If you don't see that, you're ignorant. Though technically a matter of opinion, it's so bloody obvious that you'd have to be a complete fool not to recognize it.

I totally agree that the production paint job was NOWHERE near what we saw on the Toy Fair prototype..........it wasn't even close. If someone can't see that I won't necessarily call them "ignorant", but I do think it means they either have blinders on or their standards might be lower than others.

 

[pickard]

So in other words if a person doesn't agree with you on this then they're ignorant. That's so awesome that you're the end all be all on what is a flaw and what isn't. Funny people get on to me for being judgemental. Yet, at most I might say someone is acting childish but I don't recall saying someone was ignorant for not agreeing.



In your opinion.

No, you're right, Josh. The production paint job on the 12" Obi-Wan is much better than the prototype. It's a damn good thing SS fixed that flaw before they sent it out to us.

Paint me as an extremist and an a--hole all you want. There are some things that are obvious. Someone who doesn't see them is ignorant. IMO. OK, I'll put IMO at the end of every sentence. Will that do it? SS isn't perfect, IMO. Some products have had flaws, IMO. The sculptors and painters at SS don't walk on water, IMO. SS's factories sometimes screw up things, IMO. The artisans at SS shouldn't retire because they've already climbed the mountaintop and achieved perfection, IMO.

I like both of you guys, Josh and maulfan. You have an incredible love for a company I also love.

Is it a bit extreme? Yes, in my opinion. Do that occasionally frustrate me? Occasionally.

But, I prefer you to the haters. I love SS, so your fault is in sharing my opinion a little too strongly. I wish more people I dealt with in life had that fault.

Still, the "If you're not with me, you're against me" mentality is stupid. Recognize that some of us can love SS as much as you even if we're not on the cheerleading bandwagon.

 

[MaulFan]

Come on, man. You can't seriously sit there with a straight face and say everything SS does is 100% spot-on perfect. Anyone with an unbiased view can see that. Like I said in another post(somewhere among the many threads on this whole debate) Sideshow is light years ahead of Hasbro, but they are far from perfect.

I'm not saying they're 100% perfect, I personally don't feel that way, BUT, i think that for some people they could be and just because that's how they feel and they don't see flaws like others do doesn't make them ignorant, this is all a subjective matter, every person will have their own tastes and preferences. I think my girlfriend is 100% perfect, do I expect others to know, everyone will have their own opinion but doesn't mean she can't be perfect for me, same with collectibles, some people will regard some things as flaws, others will see them as strengths, it's all about what each INVIDUAL feels, and my whole point in all of this is that both sides need to understand one another and the nasayers so far, are coninuing to demonstrate closed minds to the idea that someone could find these figures great as they are, not see flaws, and can do so without being ignorant or anything like that.

 

[El Roranous]

As a whole no SS is not a 100% perfect. I will even say that. However, just because someone doesn't see as many flaws as the next then that doesn't make them ignorant nor their opinion any less valuable.

I have to say that everyone's opinion on this board should be regarded as just as valuable as the next. Just because you may not agree doesn't mean that they are stupid or their opinions mean nothing. We can not be a community and continue to be whole if we are looking down on those that view things differently. So in this, I do agree with you Josh. We have to be respectful.

AS for the rest of the debate I think we are arguing semantics. There are words being thrown around like flaws and ignorant that may be interpreted differently by each person.

 

[MaulFan]

There are some things that are obvious. Someone who doesn't see them is ignorant.

They are obvious to YOU, the whole ****ing point is that it IS NOT IGNORANCE just because YOU see it as a flaw, some people may not give a **** about what you call a flaw, NO ONE on this planet can state what is right or wrong, it's all a matter of perspective, there can never be a book of "How To Tell If Your Collectible Is Flawed", everyone's stance is going to differ and the point is that it's wrong to call someone ignorant for not seeing something as wrong just cuz you, and maybe even the majority feel so, everyone is going to be different you have to be open to that fact.

 

[pickard]

They are obvious to YOU, the whole ****ing point is that it IS NOT IGNORANCE just because YOU see it as a flaw, some people may not give a **** about what you call a flaw, NO ONE on this planet can state what is right or wrong, it's all a matter of perspective, there can never be a book of "How To Tell If Your Collectible Is Flawed", everyone's stance is going to differ and the point is that it's wrong to call someone ignorant for not seeing something as wrong just cuz you, and maybe even the majority feel so, everyone is going to be different you have to be open to that fact.

No collectible is perfect. They all have flaws. If you don't agree with that, I don't know what to say.

There are some flaws which are just obvious. I chose the Obi-Wan example because I've never read anyone on this board, cheerleader or not, who ever claimed that the production paint job was as good as the prototype.

If you're saying that, I guess it is subjective and I'm wrong.

If you're not saying that, then you're just being argumentative, and I've got better ways to spend my Sunday afternoon than dealing with that.

 

[DarkArtist81]

No collectible is perfect. They all have flaws. If you don't agree with that, I don't know what to say.

There are some flaws which are just obvious. I chose the Obi-Wan example because I've never read anyone on this board, cheerleader or not, who ever claimed that the production paint job was as good as the prototype.

If you're saying that, I guess it is subjective and I'm wrong.

If you're not saying that, then you're just being argumentative, and I've got better ways to spend my Sunday afternoon than dealing with that.

I agree with you Pickard.... I mean, if every SSC product was perfect and Flaw free... I would have no job here!

Personally, I think flaws are in the eyes of the beholder. Some got Anakin and didn't have an issue with the lips.... but most did. It all comes down to what matters to each of us and what we feel is most important... No one is right and no one is wrong.

 

[The Josh]

No, you're right, Josh. The production paint job on the 12" Obi-Wan is much better than the prototype. It's a damn good thing SS fixed that flaw before they sent it out to us.

I didn't say that did I. Now' you're overreacting to what I said.

Paint me as an extremist and an a--hole all you want. There are some things that are obvious. Someone who doesn't see them is ignorant. IMO.

I don't think you're *******. However, I totally disagree with you that if someone doesn't see the see the same flaw is ignorant. It's nothing more than a difference of an opinion. The rest of this part of your post was again you going a touch overboard.

I like both of you guys, Josh and maulfan. You have an incredible love for a company I also love.

Still, the "If you're not with me, you're against me" mentality is stupid. Recognize that some of us can love SS as much as you even if we're not on the cheerleading bandwagon.

I've never had that mind set and don't understand it as far as collectibles go. Sports is a different matter. I realize that people can love SS as much as I do without being a so called cheerleader. I've never questioned that either.

 

[MaulFan]

No collectible is perfect. They all have flaws. If you don't agree with that, I don't know what to say.

There are some flaws which are just obvious. I chose the Obi-Wan example because I've never read anyone on this board, cheerleader or not, who ever claimed that the production paint job was as good as the prototype.

If you're saying that, I guess it is subjective and I'm wrong.

If you're not saying that, then you're just being argumentative, and I've got better ways to spend my Sunday afternoon than dealing with that.

I'll admit that the production Obi-Wan isn't the same as the proto, but I don't consider it to be a flawed figure, it's my favorite of the group, I judge it as it is not by what it could have been because nothing is going to magically change that and I don't sit around wishing something was different on it, I love it for what it is. And again, you keep talking about OBVIOUS FLAWS, there is NO SUCH THING, what you see as flaws are obvious to you and that's how flaws are, but for someone that doesn't see them as flaws, they aren't obvious, they're not even flaws, you have to open your mind to the idea that people can be happy with what they see, and others will find faults, that's the way it is and as long as both sides can see that and be open to DISCUSSION, there can be balanced, civil discussion about these things.

 

[The Josh]

I have to say that everyone's opinion on this board should be regarded as just as valuable as the next. Just because you may not agree doesn't mean that they are stupid or their opinions mean nothing. We can not be a community and continue to be whole if we are looking down on those that view things differently. So in this, I do agree with you Josh. We have to be respectful.

Correct and I myself need to be better at being open minded and respectful.

Personally, I think flaws are in the eyes of the beholder. Some got Anakin and didn't have an issue with the lips.... but most did. It all comes down to what matters to each of us and what we feel is most important... No one is right and no one is wrong.

Exactly! Nobody is ignornant for not seeing what someone else does on a collectible. We're all different.