Justice League Movie (Nov 17th, 2017)

[RIDDICK]

prison rape

 

[jye4ever]

I agree with what is being said out in movie discussion land that if not for a successful WW I think WB would be rebooting asap forget hurting feelings or souring relationships.

Now what do they do.

 

[Khev]

Wow talking about BR 2049 in a JL thread feels like sitting down in a McDonald's to discuss filet mignon but here goes!

Hmmmmm Never read the book but that is cool that ideas are explored in both films from the same novel.

Yes, I won't spoil the book (since it does end differently than both films) but just to whet your appetite in case you're ever inclined to read it Deckard would fly from city to city in the book while gathering info on Batty's crew. Police HQ was in San Francisco but the "Tyrell Corporation" was up in Seattle so he had to fly up the coast in his spinner to pay them a visit. Then Rachael was sent down to mess with him. In the book Rachael was very manipulative, vindictive and spiteful (latter two traits were exemplified in the BR 2049 "Luv" character) yet she was also a pleasure bot who shared the same likeness as Pris and all other Nexus 6 pleasure bots (similar to how all holographic companions in 2049 had the same likeness as K's girlfriend "Joi.")

There's also a virtual reality character that "breaks free" from the confines of the digital world and accompanies Deckard on his travels. There's some ambiguity as to how/why the character in the novel did it so I'll leave it at that but obviously 2049 gave us a version of that with how Joi was able to eventually travel freely with K.

The rain in the 1982 film IS great and iconic and yes influenced films (like Se7en) even decades later but I also liked the radioactive dust that would blow in to cities from time to time in the novel which was the primary motivation for everyone moving off-world. So I really liked to see that ashy snow in BR 2049.

Anyway I won't say any more about the novel but if you're into books I highly recommend that you give it a read. Though it overlaps with both films it really is its own story that can still be enjoyed on its own. Okay I'll say this one last thing about the book. In one scene Deckard reflects on how terrified rogue replicants were of bounty hunters like him and he imagined what it'd be like if the tables were ever turned. He thought it would be freaky if a replicant had a list of humans to kill and began systematically hunting them one by one and taking them out since no one would have any way of knowing who was hunting them and that their pursuer was really a robot. Hmmm obviously Jim Cameron liked that idea too.

Thinking about this again... Blade Runner was not Very deep and neither was this sequel.. But Blade Runner did it in 44 min less time.

Co-screenwriter of both films Hampton Fancher stated that he feels that one of the main themes of BR is quantity of life while BR 2049 is more about quality of life. So in the first movie you've got one guy trying to make the short life spans of the androids even shorter while the androids just want to outlive both the death sentence for their crimes as well as their built in death sentence at the genetic level. Not a whole lot of depth there just a great mood and world and of course Batty's amazing epiphany at the end.

Whereas with K in BR 2049 he isn't trying to live longer he wants to live better. He wants a relationship and a valid reality to cling to. He won't let Joi "pretend" it's their anniversary when it really isn't. We doesn't want her to say she's happy with him on the rooftop if that's just her programming, he wants her to really feel it. He knows his whole life is a lie (false memories) that were forced upon him so for everything that he actually does control he demands absolute reality and truth or at the very least as much as that which is within his grasp to attain.

This film took a lot of time to breath.. As cute as the hologram girlfriend was.. They probably could have reduced her screen time a bit and then maybe some of the Deckard stuff.. I don;t know I really need to watch it again.. Perhaps I will will have no issue with the run time.

Depending on how "deep" you feel the film is I can see how people might think they spent too much time with Joi. I believe karamazov80 dismissed the film as being about a couple of toaster ovens that loved each other and that hunted other toaster ovens and that there wasn't much to it than that. If you see the AI's in this film as being glorified Siri's walking around without real "life" in them then Joi might just be a throw-away gimmick (like the sexual holograms in The 6th Day and Minority Report) that they spent way too much time on.

But I saw her as the next level of AI evolution. I found it fascinating that her programming was so advanced that she could seemingly "come to life" simply at the request of her owner. Also interesting is that she was yet another product of the Wallace Corporation. And she was just one more manufactured being who was treated like **** by those around her (the replicant hooker and Luv). What happens when all the holographic companions of the world become self-aware? Or weaponized? Or decide that they've had enough and want to revolt. They were clearly everywhere if those citywide advertisements were to be believed.

And yet the film in no way came out said point blank "get ready for the next chapter where holograms are the new threat!" Instead it was just this subtle undercurrent of new and improved AI's being born or manufactured each generation with previous generations developing their own societies as new ones discover that they too might not want to be slaves and have to figure out their place in the galactic pecking order.

I can't remember a film in recent memory seemingly so overflowing with fascinating concepts and ideas. Or that operated on such different levels depending on what you wanted from it. I can easily see many viewers, maybe even most getting NONE of what I got from the film or seeing very little of what I saw. And that's part of the beauty of it. Regardless of how BR 2049 compares to the original or even other genre films like FOTR and so forth I just believe that this film will endure for a long, long time and that people will be reflecting on it and discovering various aspects for years, possibly even decades to come.

 

[Uncle Bingo]

I agree with what is being said out in movie discussion land that if not for a successful WW I think WB would be rebooting asap forget hurting feelings or souring relationships.

Now what do they do.

They should just scrap everything and go back to Batman.

 

[Khev]

Yes JL makes JAWS speak good about AOU...

Good good.

And the visuals in JL make people think that RO Leia looked real. Good good...

But IMO right now it's a kind of golden age of comic book movies, and so it would have been nice if DC was rolling along too.

Yeah it's pretty mind blowing that between Logan, Spider-Man Homecoming, Thor Ragnarok, and Justice League we got too see all these superheroes on screen the same YEAR:

Spider-Man
Captain America
Iron Man
Wonder Woman
Batman
Superman
The Flash
Thor
The Incredible Hulk
Wolverine
Professor X

I mean holy crap what a list of icons.

So is prison rape I'm sure, but I wouldn't want to do it.

 

[jye4ever]

And the visuals in JL make people think that RO Leia looked real. Good good...



Yeah it's pretty mind blowing that between Logan, Spider-Man Homecoming, Thor Ragnarok, and Justice League we got too see all these superheroes on screen the same YEAR:

Spider-Man
Captain America
Iron Man
Wonder Woman
Batman
Superman
The Flash
Thor
The Incredible Hulk
Wolverine
Professor X

I mean holy crap what a list of icons.

Yup this Thanksgiving I give thanks to JL for making Leia look great and Ultron seem Shakespearean lol

Wait did even R rated IT open larger than JL?

*runs to box office mojo

YUP it most certainly did!

 

[Khev]

Wait did even R rated IT open larger than JL?

*runs to box office mojo

YUP it most certainly did!

Mind-boggling. There are almost no words, lol.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Did SNIKT never admit to seeing that movie, IT?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Yeah it's pretty mind blowing that between Logan, Spider-Man Homecoming, Thor Ragnarok, and Justice League we got too see all these superheroes on screen the same YEAR:

Spider-Man
Captain America
Iron Man
Wonder Woman
Batman
Superman
The Flash
Thor
The Incredible Hulk
Wolverine
Professor X

I mean holy crap what a list of icons.

You don't consider Loki and Aquaman icons?

And then there is GOTG2.

 

[crows]

Did SNIKT never admit to seeing that movie, IT?

No. Never. I think hes waiting for blu ray to drop.

 

[RIDDICK]

 

[a-dev]

John Travolta
Jack Nicholson Joker
Richard Kiel's Jaws
Jane from Firefly
Or Henry Cavill the day after his wisdom teeth removal...

''Who knew digitally removing a moustache could be so complicated'' - Donald Trump

 

[Khev]

You don't consider Loki and Aquaman icons?

And then there is GOTG2.

Loki Shmoki. The only reason he's been put up on a pedestal for so long is just because almost all the other MCU villains have been so forgettable.

 

[crows]

This guy is really good IMO. WB should hire him as a consultant. Liked that he pointed out that WB management ultimately is to blame.

As for DC, from articles I read this summer - hiring "good directors" e.g. known directors is costly and they have tight schedules. So more and more "indie" directors are being hired by studios as it's cheaper.

For Marvel that's been working, as apparently directors do a pitch for Marvel - one report said at least 10 directors were looked at for Ragnarok - and Marvel also backed up Taika Waititi w. a whole bunch of experienced crew. For the Mummy, apparently having a director not used to dealing w. a big film, it was a disaster having an inexperienced director.

Either way looks like WB will have to invest in some new staff, which is not gonna be what they want to do. Although - no way to know the amount, but there will be disk/home view profits besides the BO. Not sure WB's picture financially is all THAT bad, because they'll probably just right everything off as a business loss. Upper management won't suffer.

That channel is amazing for industry analysis

I think most people agree that JL is garbage, but some find it entertaining and some hate it. I think it's more entertaining than the last 3 DCEU films.

No way.... this was really boring, nothing was earned, things were happening on screen that didnt have any weight. There were no stakes to anything, this is one of the most hollow and shallow movies ever

It's got the same amount of plot that other movies do. Evil guy wants to take over a world and make it his own. A little movie called Lord Of The Rings had the same basic concept. Except instead of trying to get a ring the main baddie was trying to get 3 boxes. If you break down most action movies it's pretty much good guy punch bad guy, the end.

Thats ridiculous. Lord of the rings has a rich mythology and has a rich world, it is nothing like this. No freaking way.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Loki Shmoki. The only reason he's been put up on a pedestal for so long is just because almost all the other MCU villains have been so forgettable.

But he's more popular than Thor.

 

[JAWS]

Most of those shots are from that opening with the camera phone.. Truly one of the worst digital effects to grace the big screen.

 

[JAWS]

You talking about Ronan or Ego? Either way I don't recall there being any lovefests for either character. I thought the general consensus was that both were just more bad Marvel villains (I thought they were for the most part, anyway).

Ronan. I remember when the film first came out a lot of people thought he was a pretty good villain.

 

[DiFabio]

 

[JAWS]

Wow talking about BR 2049 in a JL thread feels like sitting down in a McDonald's to discuss filet mignon but here goes!



Yes, I won't spoil the book (since it does end differently than both films) but just to whet your appetite in case you're ever inclined to read it Deckard would fly from city to city in the book while gathering info on Batty's crew. Police HQ was in San Francisco but the "Tyrell Corporation" was up in Seattle so he had to fly up the coast in his spinner to pay them a visit. Then Rachael was sent down to mess with him. In the book Rachael was very manipulative, vindictive and spiteful (latter two traits were exemplified in the BR 2049 "Luv" character) yet she was also a pleasure bot who shared the same likeness as Pris and all other Nexus 6 pleasure bots (similar to how all holographic companions in 2049 had the same likeness as K's girlfriend "Joi.")

There's also a virtual reality character that "breaks free" from the confines of the digital world and accompanies Deckard on his travels. There's some ambiguity as to how/why the character in the novel did it so I'll leave it at that but obviously 2049 gave us a version of that with how Joi was able to eventually travel freely with K.

The rain in the 1982 film IS great and iconic and yes influenced films (like Se7en) even decades later but I also liked the radioactive dust that would blow in to cities from time to time in the novel which was the primary motivation for everyone moving off-world. So I really liked to see that ashy snow in BR 2049.

Anyway I won't say any more about the novel but if you're into books I highly recommend that you give it a read. Though it overlaps with both films it really is its own story that can still be enjoyed on its own. Okay I'll say this one last thing about the book. He thought it would be freaky if a replicant had a list of humans to kill and began systematically hunting them one by one and taking them out since no one would have any way of knowing who was hunting them and that their pursuer was really a robot. Hmmm obviously Jim Cameron liked that idea too.

I may have to give the book a read.. I am strange when it comes to books.. I have read several multiple times and have quit halfway through on many more.. A book really has to grab me or I just give up.. Its why I have read some multiple times because at least I know I like those

Co-screenwriter of both films Hampton Fancher stated that he feels that one of the main themes of BR is quantity of life while BR 2049 is more about quality of life. So in the first movie you've got one guy trying to make the short life spans of the androids even shorter while the androids just want to outlive both the death sentence for their crimes as well as their built in death sentence at the genetic level. Not a whole lot of depth there just a great mood and world and of course Batty's amazing epiphany at the end.

Whereas with K in BR 2049 he isn't trying to live longer he wants to live better. He wants a relationship and a valid reality to cling to. He won't let Joi "pretend" it's their anniversary when it really isn't. We doesn't want her to say she's happy with him on the rooftop if that's just her programming, he wants her to really feel it. He knows his whole life is a lie (false memories) that were forced upon him so for everything that he actually does control he demands absolute reality and truth or at the very least as much as that which is within his grasp to attain.

Yeah but I am not sure there was 44min of extra depth there

But I get what you are saying

Depending on how "deep" you feel the film is I can see how people might think they spent too much time with Joi. I believe karamazov80 dismissed the film as being about a couple of toaster ovens that loved each other and that hunted other toaster ovens and that there wasn't much to it than that. If you see the AI's in this film as being glorified Siri's walking around without real "life" in them then Joi might just be a throw-away gimmick (like the sexual holograms in The 6th Day and Minority Report) that they spent way too much time on.

But I saw her as the next level of AI evolution. I found it fascinating that her programming was so advanced that she could seemingly "come to life" simply at the request of her owner. Also interesting is that she was yet another product of the Wallace Corporation. And she was just one more manufactured being who was treated like **** by those around her (the replicant hooker and Luv). What happens when all the holographic companions of the world become self-aware? Or weaponized? Or decide that they've had enough and want to revolt. They were clearly everywhere if those citywide advertisements were to be believed.

And yet the film in no way came out said point blank "get ready for the next chapter where holograms are the new threat!" Instead it was just this subtle undercurrent of new and improved AI's being born or manufactured each generation with previous generations developing their own societies as new ones discover that they too might not want to be slaves and have to figure out their place in the galactic pecking order.

I can't remember a film in recent memory seemingly so overflowing with fascinating concepts and ideas. Or that operated on such different levels depending on what you wanted from it. I can easily see many viewers, maybe even most getting NONE of what I got from the film or seeing very little of what I saw. And that's part of the beauty of it. Regardless of how BR 2049 compares to the original or even other genre films like FOTR and so forth I just believe that this film will endure for a long, long time and that people will be reflecting on it and discovering various aspects for years, possibly even decades to come.

You defiantly got a bit more out of this film then I did.. But I could get more with repeat viewings. I am sure I will like it more and will probably get more out of it.

"One thing about the original and how it relates to what you said about the book. In one scene Deckard reflects on how terrified rogue replicants were of bounty hunters like him and he imagined what it'd be like if the tables were ever turned."

I use to watch the film when I was younger always viewing the replicants as the "bad guys" The Last few times I have watched it I view it more from their point of view and almost see Deckard as the Villain. I have much more empathy for the Replicants now then I ever did before.. Probably has something to do with my own increasing age...

 

[Uncle Bingo]

Meanwhile in the Paramount board room: