Logan (New Wolverine movie March 3rd 2017)

[GasparZizou]

I think I know why Wolverine's death didn't hit me hard.

I needed more bonding moments of x23 and Logan, it was mostly just Logan scolding her and bearing with the burden, at the death his death was more of a release and a well deserved rest than anything sad, I did feel bad for Laura but the whole death didn't strike me how I feel it should have.

 

[a-dev]

Doesn't matter, no one noticed when Kirk died.

Kirk's death: Yelling barracuda

Han's death: Yelling shark

Oh, where's JAWS, he'll like that reference!

 

[Khev]

I think I know why Wolverine's death didn't hit me hard.

I needed more bonding moments of x23 and Logan, it was mostly just Logan scolding her and bearing with the burden, at the death his death was more of a release than anything sad, I did feel bad for Laura but the whole death didn't strike me how I feel it should have.

Yeah, and I didn't feel that Laura earned the "Daddy" moment the way Newt did with "Mommy." I mean I guess in X-23's own way it probably made sense for her to say but I certainly didn't believe that her version of "daddy" in any way matched that of a normal little girl. Again, not knocking the story because it fit, it just didn't tug on my heartstrings the way daddy/daughter moments usually do.

 

[a-dev]

Yeah, and I didn't feel that Laura earned the "Daddy" moment the way Newt did with "Mommy." I mean I guess in X-23's own way it probably made sense for her to say but I certainly didn't believe that her version of "daddy" in any way matched that of a normal little girl. Again, not knocking the story because it fit, it just didn't tug on my heartstrings the way daddy/daughter moments usually do.

You have failed this movie Khev. Be ashamed.

 

[GasparZizou]

Yeah, and I didn't feel that Laura earned the "Daddy" moment the way Newt did with "Mommy." I mean I guess in X-23's own way it probably made sense for her to say but I certainly didn't believe that her version of "daddy" in any way matched that of a normal little girl. Again, not knocking the story because it fit, it just didn't tug on my heartstrings the way daddy/daughter moments usually do.

I think x23 had the whole daddy thing bottled up, she's been told her whole life by the nurse that Wolverine was her father so x23 always saw him as her daddy, notice how she always gravitated towards him and obeyed him even though he was always scolding her.

So, in a way, I don't think it was forced that x23 said it, but it didn't quite connect for me on Wolverine's side, I needed a moment where Logan actually enjoyed his "daughter" and was happy, even if just for a moment, so it wasn't all just a big burden.

I make an analogue with The Last of Us, which this movie very much is, in that game you have little moments like walking into an abandoned records store and Joel and Ellie just chatting, or that awkward moment where Ellie pulls that adult magazine, moments like those, so when something happens and Joel has that daddy moment, you choke.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Doesn't matter, no one noticed when Kirk died.

TFA didn't noticed Han's death


Superman had the best death ever. After 75 years and countless films, he died heroically.

Excuse me

Spoiler

 

[Khev]

You have failed this movie Khev. Be ashamed.

I still acknowledge that Logan had the best acting and arguably the best line delivery of any cbm!

I'll just have to see if these rumored "second viewing feels" are real or not...

 

[pturtle]

The ending hitting me had nothing to do with X23 honestly, it was the fact that this iconic character played by Jackman for 17 years came to an end in a pretty brutal way, buried by himself, the last X-Man, it was bittersweet. That's when it hit me. The whole Laura daddy thing was fine but I don't have any real connection with the kid or her being Wolverine's daughter.


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[karamazov80]

I think x23 had the whole daddy thing bottled up, she's been told her whole life by the nurse that Wolverine was her father so x23 always saw him as her daddy, notice how she always gravitated towards him and obeyed him even though he was always scolding her.

So, in a way, I don't think it was forced that x23 said it, but it didn't quite connect for me on Wolverine's side, I needed a moment where Logan actually enjoyed his "daughter" and was happy, even if just for a moment, so it wasn't all just a big burden.

I make an analogue with The Last of Us, which this movie very much is, in that game you have little moments like walking into an abandoned records store and Joel and Ellie just chatting, or that awkward moment where Ellie pulls that adult magazine, moments like those, so when something happens and Joel has that daddy moment, you choke.

I've done community work with young kids living in poverty, and little girls who don't have father figures at home seem to yearn for it. They will latch onto any male that gives them even a little attention. Sadly, I thunk this is part of why teen pregnancy rates are so high there. . .in other words, x23s connection to Wolvie felt very believable to me.

 

[GasparZizou]

The ending hitting me had nothing to do with X23 honestly, it was the fact that this iconic character played by Jackman for 17 years came to an end in a pretty brutal way, buried by himself, the last X-Man, it was bittersweet. That's when it hit me. The whole Laura daddy thing was fine but I don't have any real connection with the kid or her being Wolverine's daughter.

Exactly, that's the point. A stronger emotional connection with Laura would've made the moment stand on its own.

The fact that he played Wolverine in mostly bad movies and a handful of good ones for almost 2 decades is nostalgic sure, but it wasn't hard hitting, that's the angle the geek sites have been playing but I can only shrug at it.

I've done community work with young kids living in poverty, and little girls who don't have father figures at home seem to yearn for it. They will latch onto any male that gives them even a little attention. Sadly, I thunk this is part of why teen pregnancy rates are so high there. . .in other words, x23s connection to Wolvie felt very believable to me.

That's what I said in precisely the first and second paragraph, x23 felt honest, it's not the Laura -> Logan connection I contest, But Logan -> Laura. I just wanted it to be reciprocal.

 

[karamazov80]

Didn't hit me very hard, either. But it doesn't feel like it's been 15 years to me, either. This isn't like the last episode of Carson to me.

 

[GasparZizou]

Didn't hit me very hard, either. But it doesn't feel like it's been 15 years to me, either. This isn't like the last episode of Carson to me.

Same here.

 

[Khev]

It's also hard to get emotional over a character dying when they've already been confirmed to have a major cameo in Deadpool 2.

 

[pturtle]

Exactly, that's the point. A stronger emotional connection with Laura would've made the moment stand on its own.

The fact that he played Wolverine in mostly bad movies and a handful of good ones for almost 2 decades is nostalgic sure, but it wasn't hard hitting, that's the angle the geek sites have been playing but I can only shrug at it.


That's what I said in precisely the first and second paragraph, x23 felt honest, it's not the Laura -> Logan connection I contest, But Logan -> Laura. I just wanted it to be reciprocal.

That's just me though, the whole father/daughter thing never impacts me, it's too cliche at this point. I like that they play off this just being his one last good deed, he cares just enough to get her and the other kids to safety before he died for the next generation of mutants. I prefer it that way.

For me it certainly was hard hitting, I mean to see that iconic character brutalized and buried alone with the cross turned to an X was just perfect. He didn't have some huge funeral payed off by Bruce Wayne with millions of people around the world honoring him, and he's been a far better hero than DCEU Superman, how many times has Wolverine saved the world? He even traveled back in time to save everyone's ass.

Only some mutant kids that gave him a nice farewell. It was quick and they moved on. That to me was the beauty of the ending.

I also felt like you and Kara the first time I watched it, so I guess I know where you guys are coming from, but the second time I realized less is more.

 

[GasparZizou]

That's just me though, the whole father/daughter thing never impacts me, it's too cliche at this point. I like that they play off this just being his one last good deed, he cares just enough to get her and the other kids to safety before he died for the next generation of mutants.

Eh. It's just as cliché to have an evil self in darker colors, but without the emotion of the father cliché.

The problem there is that at the end there's no sadness, just relief because he gets his deserved rest after carrying his last burden, his reward is rest, not the last bit of happiness he could've found.

For me it certainly was hard hitting, I mean to see that iconic character brutalized and buried alone with the cross turned to an X was just perfect. He didn't have some huge funeral payed off by Bruce Wayne with millions of people around the world honoring him, just some mutant kids that gave him a nice farewell. It was quick and they moved on. That to me was the beauty of the ending.

But he's brutalized in all movies, in a couple of them by failed experiments that mirror him, this one was just R-rated.

The X sticks were a nice touch.

The kids aspect was downplayed, they could've exploited it more, not only a father figure for Laura, but a guardian for the kids, that's the whole deal with the X-men. The X sticks would've been even more powerful.

 

[pturtle]

Eh. It's just as cliché to have an evil self in darker colors, but without the emotion of the father cliché.


But he's brutalized in all movies, in a couple of them by failed experiments that mirror him, this one was just R-rated.

The X thing was a nice touch.

With this was the culmination of all that, you see how everything up to that point has taken a toll on him physically and mentally.

I didn't find X24 to be cliche, I actually was shocked that they made him apart of the story

Again, this character saved the world god knows how many times, and to see him buried in the woods by mostly people he didn't even know, being the last X-Man, was extremely sad but an honest ending for this character. Anything more would have been really cheesy on my opinion. I even would have preferred they left out that line with X23 calling him dad.

 

[GasparZizou]

With this was the culmination of all that, you see how everything up to that point has taken a toll on him physically and mentally.

I don't think so, because his biggest trauma happens off screen, it's just meta-referenced, which is fine. Like Fury Road did.

I didn't find X24 to be cliche, I actually was shocked that they made him apart of the story

You don't find the evil you, to be a cliché?

Again, this character saved the world god knows how many times, and to see him buried in the woods by mostly people he didn't even know, being the last X-Man, was extremely sad but an honest ending for this character.

I liked that he was buried in the woods by the kids, no problem with the scenario there, and I liked that it was downplayed, but it was a little too downplayed it made it almost ineffective, I'm not saying he needed any more ceremony, if that's what you're going by, but he really didn't lose or win anything, he just got his rest, because of that it wasn't extremely sad, it was nostalgic for the time he played Wolverine.

The whole thing is well done, but there's not enough substance behind to make it as sad as it should be.

 

[pturtle]

I don't think so, because his biggest trauma happens off screen, it's just meta-referenced, which is fine. Like Fury Road did.


You don't find the evil you, to be a cliché?


I liked that he was buried in the woods by the kids, no problem with the scenario there, and I liked that it was downplayed, but it was a little too downplayed it made it almost ineffective, I'm not saying he needed any more ceremony, if that's what you're going by, but he really didn't lose or win anything, he just got his rest, because of that it wasn't extremely sad, it was nostalgic for the time he played Wolverine.

Well, I think that was Charles' biggest trauma that happened off screen, Logan on the other hand just seems beat up and hopeless due to a century worth of losing people he gets closes to. The only thing keeping him alive is taking care of Charles. Remember, this is the Wolverine from Origins, The Wolverine, X1, X2, X3, and DOFP, he's lived in a time where a mutant holocaust basically existed, he's basically lived in a worse future than the one in Logan.

I think the route they went with the clone made it less cliche. X24 came off more as a Terminator in my opinion, but it has a nice metaphorical touch being his animal side. I think the fact they never really emphasis that made it less cliche to me.

It wasn't really about winning or losing anything, it was a personal victory, like a washed up fighter fighting for a title one last time. He was dying, hopeless, pretty much given up on everything, but like most westerns, he had one last good run, going down in a blaze of glory almost so that the next generation of mutants can live. It's what gave him peace before dying. He was able to complete one last task that Charles wanted him to.

The first time I wasn't too happy with his or Charles' death, but watching it again, and realizing this isn't supposed to be another superhero movie, it's supposed to be a gritty neo-western. The movie most of the time is making a point that it's nothing like the comics. The way Logan and Charles die was more powerful and bittersweet in how real it felt. For me at least

Still, I do think people are overrating the movie a bit because of the gore and ballsy ending. It's nowhere near as good as TDK, and as of right now it's not even in my top 3 FoX-Men movies. I think X2, DOFP, and FC are better movies but I can see it possibly edging out FC with another watch. I however, love the ending and how Mangold decided to retire the character.

 

[GasparZizou]

Yeah but the mutant holocaust happens off screen, which I'm fine with because I hate exposition, and evil Wolvie is literally the same thing evil you always is, which is mute evil mirror antagonist with opposite colors that only goes forward and doesn't go back and it's always an allegory for the [insert character defect] within.

Maybe I'll change my mind come second viewing, if it seems I'm being nitpicky I probably am, I'm not knocking this movie by any means, these are just very specific criticisms of my own, and not necessarily of flaws of the movie, but things that I think could be a little better.

I still would love if CBMs were like this movie in a lot of ways, and not, well, MCU.

I don't remember having this few criticisms for a CBM in a while, good movie.

 

[ironwez20]

Yea evil wolverine felt cheap to me. It would of been more effective if it was another mutant . Just felt shallow. Didn't ruin the movie for me at all though but could of definitely been better written as sabertooth who is just a feral monster now and has a history and is now being controlled. That can also be Logan fighting somthing he was scared of always being.

Evil clones are played out.