Logan (New Wolverine movie March 3rd 2017)

[jye4ever]

GOTG/Acengers/X2...all Marvel characters.

Poor DC.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I like Guardians of the Galaxy more than The Avengers.

I liked BvS more than Guardians of the Galaxy and The Avengers.

I like Batman Forever more than BVS, Guardians of the Galaxy and The Avengers

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

GOTG/Acengers/X2...all Marvel characters.

Poor DC.

What is DC?

 

[Uncle Bingo]

What is DC?

A comic book publisher that has vastly superior characters than Marvel.

 

[SNIKT1950]

I liked BvS more than Guardians of the Galaxy and The Avengers.

Three very different films.

The Avengers was basically an alien invasion movie starring a group of superheroes. It was fun but still knew how to get serious and make the stakes real. This was back when Whedon had power and Feige hadn't taken complete creative control over the films. Coulson's death is poignant, Loki's "robbed kingdom" conflict works well and most importantly the heroes themselves are fleshed out properly and given good reason to do their thing.

10/10

Guardians of The Galaxy is essentially a sci-fi comedy - but like The Avengers, it knows when to reduce the humor and embrace the drama. Groot's sacrifice for the team was heartfelt, Ronan's quest was powerful and again, all the individual heroes had legitimate story arcs that coalesced wonderfully.

10/10

Batman v Superman is a criminally underrated drama-heavy action movie about two men who live to protect the people of Earth yet find themselves questioning the very motivation that made them don the capes. Its a movie that isn't trying to spoon-feed the audience with cheap humor but rather focuses on its leads and their individual torments.

Theatrical Cut - 8.5/10
Ultimate Cut - 9/10

 

[DiFabio]

I liked BvS more than Guardians of the Galaxy and The Avengers.

I like Batman Forever more than BVS . . .

Batman Forever > BvS

Batman Forever was the Guradians of the Galaxy of 1995.

 

[Uncle Bingo]

Batman Forever > BvS

I also agree with this.

 

[Victοr]

Ohhhhhh

If I knew I'd be making millions in Hollywood as a script writer. I haven't had the luxury to research these characters obviously. I would just hire someone else better than Whedon for the job. I just know, considering there's a few other ensemble superhero flicks out there, that having a decent story compared to The Avengers, it wouldn't have been impossible.

One thing I certainly would've done was make Steve Rogers the main character and tell the story from his perspective like Singer did with Wolverine. The whole fish out of water thing could have been done and you could have really seen Cap fresh off of waking up on ice adjusting to modern day America. Instead Whedon made Tony Stark and Black Widow the main characters which obviously lead to a movie where every line had a quip in it.

Fair enough. But still, for the Avengers to work, you need a big-ass threat to bring them all together. And this big-ass threat must be something that can unite everybody, so no government conspiracies and whatnot. An alien invasion, a giant monster or something along those lines are your only options. I guess you could take the Ultimate approach, which I prefer, really. I actually wrote a "draft" a while back. I've lost it now, but I still remember the core spine of the story.

So you'd essentially prefer the Ultimate version. It's cool, I also like that one more. The problem was the POV character though. It was Whedon who made everybody quippy. Tony Stark, in every Universe other than the MCU, is one of the most depressing and broken characters in comics. Had we gotten IM1 Stark as the POV, it would've had the same effect you're looking for.

A comic book publisher that has vastly superior characters than Marvel.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

A comic book publisher that has vastly superior characters than Marvel.

Don't mean **** about their movies

 

[pturtle]

Fair enough. But still, for the Avengers to work, you need a big-ass threat to bring them all together. And this big-ass threat must be something that can unite everybody, so no government conspiracies and whatnot. An alien invasion, a giant monster or something along those lines are your only options. I guess you could take the Ultimate approach, which I prefer, really. I actually wrote a "draft" a while back. I've lost it now, but I still remember the core spine of the story.

So you'd essentially prefer the Ultimate version. It's cool, I also like that one more. The problem was the POV character though. It was Whedon who made everybody quippy. Tony Stark, in every Universe other than the MCU, is one of the most depressing and broken characters in comics. Had we gotten IM1 Stark as the POV, it would've had the same effect you're looking for.

I don't think an Alien Invasion is the only way to go, wasn't there a group of like primary villains working together to take on the Avengers? They could have adapted that, bring in Loki, Red Skull, Abomination and whoever else. There's a lot that could have been done, and I'm not against the alien invasion, but the Chitauri weren't a threat at all. There wasn't any point in that 3rd act where the Avengers were in trouble.

But overall, I do think Whedon is was the problem, once the novelty of these characters interacting wore off on everyone, his lack of filmmaking/writing skills were finally exposed with Age of Ultron.

 

[Victοr]

I don't think an Alien Invasion is the only way to go, wasn't there a group of like primary villains working together to take on the Avengers? They could have adapted that, bring in Loki, Red Skull, Abomination and whoever else. There's a lot that could have been done, and I'm not against the alien invasion, but the Chitauri weren't a threat at all. There wasn't any point in that 3rd act where the Avengers were in trouble.

But overall, I do think Whedon is was the problem, once the novelty of these characters interacting wore off on everyone, his lack of filmmaking/writing skills were finally exposed with Age of Ultron.

The Masters of Evil, yeah. But that's a corny name and it needs a ton of set-up. Not to mention that it needs personal vendettas to work. Loki just wanted to conquer Earth, that's it. Bring in the Masters and you need tons of build-up that wasn't present at the point. An alien invasion is the only way for such a flick to work with the amount of MCU films that came before it.

 

[pturtle]

The Masters of Evil, yeah. But that's a corny name and it needs a ton of set-up. Not to mention that it needs personal vendettas to work. Loki just wanted to conquer Earth, that's it. Bring in the Masters and you need tons of build-up that wasn't present at the point. An alien invasion is the only way for such a flick to work with the amount of MCU films that came before it.

The definitely could have changed the name, and maybe the MCU could have built towards that with The Avengers instead of bringing the Chitauri out of nowhere, that alien invasion really came out of nowhere too.

I see what you're saying though, I have no problems with an alien invasion but I do have a problem with Whedon's execution of the entire film.

I'm not looking forward to it, but I'm sure the Russos will do a much better job with Infinity War.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

The definitely could have changed the name, and maybe the MCU could have built towards that with The Avengers instead of bringing the Chitauri out of nowhere, that alien invasion really came out of nowhere too.

I see what you're saying though, I have no problems with an alien invasion but I do have a problem with Whedon's execution of the entire film.

I'm not looking forward to it, but I'm sure the Russos will do a much better job with Infinity War.

They didn't come out of nowhere, they were in a couple movies before the Avengers

 

[Victοr]

The definitely could have changed the name, and maybe the MCU could have built towards that with The Avengers instead of bringing the Chitauri out of nowhere, that alien invasion really came out of nowhere too.

I see what you're saying though, I have no problems with an alien invasion but I do have a problem with Whedon's execution of the entire film.

I'm not looking forward to it, but I'm sure the Russos will do a much better job with Infinity War.

I don't see how "aliens" came out of nowhere. It's like saying the aliens from Indipendence Day came out of nowhere. or the Xenomorph came out of nowhere. Avengers was an alien invasion movie and flowed like any other alien invasion movie. You may not like the end result, but the Chitauri didn't need any more build-up that what they got.

 

[pturtle]

They didn't come out of nowhere, they were in a couple movies before the Avengers

The Chitauri were other MCU movies prior to the Avengers? I honestly can't remember which movies were they in. Which movies did they show up in?

I don't see how "aliens" came out of nowhere. It's like saying the aliens from Indipendence Day came out of nowhere. or the Xenomorph came out of nowhere. Avengers was an alien invasion movie and flowed like any other alien invasion movie. You may not like the end result, but the Chitauri didn't need any more build-up that what they got.

You're naming movies that were standalone movies at the time, The Avengers is part of a universe that does serialized story telling, each movie is a chapter and they build to things like Infinity War and Thanos being the primary antagonist. A build up to the Chitauri certainly would have been better in my opinion.

It's really hard to look at The Avengers as an Alien Invasion film though, how often do you see an Alien Invasion film where the Aliens seems to be lacking in thinking and tech. They came to earth got squashed pretty easily and nobody seemed worried about them again. This scary alien army was being taken out by bullets and arrows, their weapons couldn't even penetrate flesh. The more I talk about this movie, the worse I think it is.

 

[YoNoSe]

Cinematic alien invaders have been defeated with much less than arrows and bullets.

 

[KryptoSlush]

Now Man of Steel, that's an alien invasion movie done right. The stakes and consequences are real and you get both perspectives as an alien living amongst humans and aliens who come to conquer.

 

[pturtle]

Not a fan of Man of Steel but I think it's a better movie than The Avengers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pturtle]

Cinematic alien invaders have been defeated with much less than arrows and bullets.

Most of the time they also pose a threat.

Hawkdude and Widow woman were tossing those guys around unarmed

 

[Victοr]

You're naming movies that were standalone movies at the time, The Avengers is part of a universe that does serialized story telling, each movie is a chapter and they build to things like Infinity War and Thanos being the primary antagonist. A build up to the Chitauri certainly would have been better in my opinion.

It's really hard to look at The Avengers as an Alien Invasion film though, how often do you see an Alien Invasion film where the Aliens seems to be lacking in thinking and tech. They came to earth got squashed pretty easily and nobody seemed worried about them again. This scary alien army was being taken out by bullets and arrows, their weapons couldn't even penetrate flesh. The more I talk about this movie, the worse I think it is.

So what kind of build-up? Have Thor say "boy, these Ice Giants are tricky, but not as tricky as the legendary Chitauri". Have Nick go "oh, btw Tony, we have also discovered aliens". Loki was the main villain. he essentially "hired" an army. I don't see the rushed part, at all. If you don't like the film it's all fine and dandy, but the Chitauri themselves didn't need a grand introduction. Thanos had them under his control, he gave them to Loki to fullfil his end of the bargain. And... that's it.

What does it matter how the aliens are defeated? Were they aliens? Yup. Did they invade Earth? Yup. Alien Invasion Movie.

I get that you dislike/hate the majority of the MC, and prefer the more "high brow" Fox CBMs (of which only a handful are worthwile in their 17 year existence, IMO) and have no interest in the source material, but these complaints are weak AF and nitpicky as hell. The Chitauri were generic alien fodder who acted like generic alien fodder. Hate the film all you want, it's as valid an opinion as any, but the Chitauri having "no prior build-up" wasn't the problem. I don't like the film that much either (I prefer the "idea" of it), but none of those gripes hold any real ground.