LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

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For what it's worth, it is believed that they have cast the role of Jacob already, so it looks like we'll meet him this season.

EW's recap for the ep had this line
One of the episode's more intriguing moments came when the camera doted on Juliet's face as actress Elizabeth Mitchell allowed a dreadful epiphany to pass across it.
I think she realized that she was the one responsible for creating the evil bastard that Ben becomes. I think Juliet is more apt to let fate and destiny control her actions at this point. She realizes she's just playing a role, the future for them is already set, they know what's going to happen. Juliet realized that she was the one who had to make the fateful decision to turn Ben. She knows more about the island than any of the Losties, so she has key knowledge that will guide her and the other Losties' actions. Even if Jack had saved Ben, the island (or fate) would've found another way to get Ben shot.

The two people that hate Ben the most, Juliet and Sayid, are the ones responsible for making him the way he is and why they hate him so much.
 
I almost forgot it was on tonight, I'm so used to this thread having activity earlier in the day to remind me. :lol
 
Glad Penny lived, thought all along Desmond was the one that beat the crap out of Ben. Alex/Jacob telling him what's up was great.

Still like to know why everyone ages but Richards.
 
I like how it was implied that the Monster was a servant of Anubis, that Richards people did not call it Cerberus and actually had no name for it. Also I think the "shadow of the statue" is referring to the Wheel.
 
i liked tonights episode with the exception of ben under the temple looking at visions of alex...........that was pretty lame....:sick
 
i liked tonights episode with the exception of ben under the temple looking at visions of alex...........that was pretty lame....:sick

Why did you think it was lame? Wasn't that the same thing that happened to Mr. Eko?

My wife started clapping when the monster came out of the holes. :lol
 
Why did you think it was lame? Wasn't that the same thing that happened to Mr. Eko?

My wife started clapping when the monster came out of the holes. :lol

i meant lame as in how it was filmed when ben was encircled by it & saw flashes of alex. to me it just looked as if it could have been shot better. they've had way better effects before this one. but i did enjoy how alex threw ben and what she told him.
 
I think the flash of Ben pushing her on the swing would have been better if they hadn't shown it as part of the larger flashback or if they showed him doing some other daddy activity with her.
 
Great to see Caesar got killed, I hated his character. I hope Ilana dies, I don't like her.

It was a decent episode, I thought it was great at the end when Ben went in the Temple and met with the smoke monster. This episode also 100% guarantees the Egyptian references.

I bet Ilana and her friends are Widmore's people, Widmore knew Ben was going back to the Island and he had people track him everywhere he went knowing that if they were with Ben they could also get to the Island. That metal box probably has some sort of device to either keep a GPS beacon on the island for Widmore to find it or something......I assume the code they used is something to identify if they were one of Widmore's men aboard the plane? I just worry introducing all these new plot lines doesn't end up taking away from the main story, I only worry because there is only one season left to tie it all up.
 
I bet Ilana and her friends are Widmore's people, Widmore knew Ben was going back to the Island and he had people track him everywhere he went knowing that if they were with Ben they could also get to the Island. That metal box probably has some sort of device to either keep a GPS beacon on the island for Widmore to find it or something......I assume the code they used is something to identify if they were one of Widmore's men aboard the plane? I just worry introducing all these new plot lines doesn't end up taking away from the main story, I only worry because there is only one season left to tie it all up.

I thought it meant that they were influenced by the island, kinda like Rousseau's expedition team members. It seemed like they were under mind control. Lapidus said "what?" and she just repeated what she said. Maybe the island is recreating the events and is using Ilana to re-enact the French expedition.
 
Great to see Caesar got killed, I hated his character. I hope Ilana dies, I don't like her.

It was a decent episode, I thought it was great at the end when Ben went in the Temple and met with the smoke monster. This episode also 100% guarantees the Egyptian references.

I bet Ilana and her friends are Widmore's people, Widmore knew Ben was going back to the Island and he had people track him everywhere he went knowing that if they were with Ben they could also get to the Island. That metal box probably has some sort of device to either keep a GPS beacon on the island for Widmore to find it or something......I assume the code they used is something to identify if they were one of Widmore's men aboard the plane? I just worry introducing all these new plot lines doesn't end up taking away from the main story, I only worry because there is only one season left to tie it all up.

I agree, I think they are Widmore's people. I don't think Caesar is dead, his character hasn't really done anything yet so they probably aren't through with him.
 
Great episode tonight ladies and gents. Show keeps blowing me away. Read this theory just now, so I thought I would post it; it's a little bit of a read

Based on the available facts and the latest smoke monster revelations during 5x12 Dead Is Dead, I now think that what we have historically called Cerberus is really a hybrid blend of Cerberus & Ammit, or a blend of Egyptian AND Greek mythology.

Cerberus (Per Wikipedia)

The common depiction of Cerberus in Greek mythology and art is as having three heads, a mane of live serpents (similar to Medusa's hair) and a dragon's tail. In most works the three-heads each respectively see and represent the past, the present and the future, while other sources suggest the heads represent birth, youth and old age. Each of Cerberus' heads is said to have an appetite only for live meat and thus allow the spirits of the dead to freely enter the underworld, but allow none to leave. Cerberus was always employed as Hades' loyal watchdog, and guarded the gates that granted access and exit to the underworld

1. Three Heads >> In the past we have seen the smoke monster appear as multiple strings of smoke forming the total cloud. That could be indicitive of the 3 heads.
2. Past/Present/Future >> The smoke monster could very well be a fate machine (lack of better term here) ie. passing judgement or course correcting. It clearly has the ability to recall events in peoples past telepathically or otherwise, and I surmise it is able to see the future as well.
3. Guarded the Gates >> Based on Locke "knowing where to find it" it appears that "home base" is at the gate to the temple.
4. The Blast Door Map >> Does elude to Cerberus Vents, etc...

Ammit (Egyptian):

Ammit was the personification of divine retribution for all the wrongs one had committed in life. She dwelt in the Hall of Ma'at, who was the personification of the concept of truth, balance, and order. In the Ancient Egyptian underworld (known as Duat) hearts of the dead were weighed by Anubis against a feather from Ma'at's headdress. The hearts of those who were heavy with wrongdoing failed the test were given to Ammit for her to devour. Those whose souls were devoured were not permitted to enter Aaru, having to be restless forever—effectively dying a second time. If the heart was lighter than a feather then the soul was judged by the god of the underworld, Osiris. Ammit was not worshipped, and she was never regarded as a goddess. Instead, she embodied all that the Egyptians feared, threatening to bind them to eternal restlessness if they did not follow the principle of Ma'at. Thus Ammit was depicted with the head of a crocodile or dog, the front part of her body as a lioness or leopard, and her hind quarters in the form of a hippopotamus, a combination of those animals which were considered as the most dangerous to the Ancient Egyptians. Although often referred to as a demon, by destroying evil she acted as a force for good.

1. Three Animals >> Instead of three heads, this time we have three animals. One of them is still a dog, but another is a Hippo. Perhaps these varying animal traits could be responsible for the sounds it makes (for example the smashing of the ground or the wailing could be a hippo trait)
2. Truth/Balance/Order >> This goes back to passing Judgement/Justice. 3. Failing the test >> If people failed they were destroyed by Ammit.. Eko failed the test and was destroyed (he did not repent) .. Ben repented immediately and instead appears to have been warned.
4. Restless Forever >> My opinion is that by letting Ben live, as Locke's Lackey, along with the guilt of losing his daughter, he will indeed be restless.
5. Ma'at >> Could Jacob be a pseudonym or modelled after Ma'at? Its possible.

In the end I believe it is consistent that the smoke monster and/or the appearance of Yemi/Alex in conjunction with the smoke monster is a blending of the lore behind Cerberus and Ammit. There seem to be elements from each and this is consistent with the show overall. Obviously there is a heavy egyptian influence (the glyphs, the statue holding the Ankh, Paul's Ankh necklace, the smoke monster's lair), but at the same time there is a heavy greek influence (the numbers, the direct reference to Pythagoras during the reveal that Ben's mother died giving birth episode, and how Pythagoras believes in transmigration of the soul and reincarnation seem to come into play), the extensive use of philosophers, which is really much more greek in nature than egyptian.
 
GREAT episode! One of my favourites. Caesar getting killed was great. Nice to have some big shocks like that back on Lost. Glad my theory was bs, but seemed a bit anticlimactic just sending Widmore away on the sub.

All the Egyptian stuff was cool. I can't recall being as engaged in both story lines before. Glad to see some tie up with Alex but the smoke monster seemed a bit de-fanged with the swirling this is your life fog.

It was nice to see a drawing of the 4 toed Anubis statue. What was at his feet? Eye of Ra over a snake? Crazy lightning/power released?
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The swirling smoke monster sequence was lame. Couldn't they have filmed it so Ben saw those flashbacks in his mind instead of it looking like it was being projected onto the smoke? They could have kept the smoke at Ben's feet and still deliver the same scene.

I hated seeing Ben cower in fear (and to Alex, no less). It's so unlike him. Made me uncomfortable.

Not a great episode, but it tidied up some plot points, so it was decent.
 
He wasn't cowering in fear to Alex, that was the smoke monster in Alex's form and obviously (to me at least) if Ben is that scared of it then it must be pretty badass. I've got a feeling Smokey is going to start playing a large role again.
 
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