LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[Rock83]

What a great finale,the only thing i disliked is how quick Jacob got killed(if he is dead),i sure hope we get to know more about him in season 6.

1 more season is kinda hard to swallow,i feel like there is so much more that needs to be answered,Richard,Jacob and the other guy talking with Jacob on the beach,Christian,the Dharma crew getting whiped out by the others with the gas,The Couple that got buried alive in season 2 or 3,cant remember,but not sure that needs to be answered as the reason for their "death" was a Spider,but still...1 more season seems rushing it a bit,at least 2 more seasons in my opinion,please don`t end it by rushing in all the answers in 1 season!


Overall Season 5 was great,what i strongly disliked about this season was Daniel`s death,i loved that character and how much he actually knew,specially Time Travel.

 

[barryo]

Any bets as to whether the skeletons they discovered in the caves in season one will turn out to be the bodies of Rose and Bernard?

i said the same thing to my wife last night..........
but i would still be surprized if it was.

 

[FlyAndFight]

Excellent theories by Entropy Chicken and Tom. You both already posted what I was going to mention.
The only thing that I'll add is that I think that in regards to the bomb, it either:

a) indeed went off but the island may have moved once again, escaping the blast...

Or

b) The bomb never went off and that bright light was a time-shift or the island moving once again...

I like the second theory better. The incident was caused by the drilling. The surviving Dharma people go on with the building of the Swan and it's business as usual. Our "heroes" get transported back to 2007 and join up with the others at the foot of the statue. "They are coming..."

 

[Agent0028]

I think I just may look into buying the previous seasons and watching them before the final season. It's so intricate it'd be a good time to do it to make sure I get everything out of the last season.

 

[YoNoSe]

I found this in a random google search. It's Damon Lindleof at some event recently answering some questions. This may be considered spoilery in that it addresses the numbers and the creation of the Dharma Initiative but I didn't read anything that I found objectionable. Just some interesting stuff, IMO.

Spoiler

Damon Lindelof attended the Comics on Comics event at Meltdown On Sunset. (Search me. I’m not a comics fan. But it was a public appearence, in any case.) He gives some startlingly direct answers to some huge questions including what the purpose of the DHARMA Initiative originally was and what the numbers really are, whether Libby will return and whether the series will have an open-ended conclusion or a clear cut conclusion. Read at your own risk. Seriously.


On What We Will and Won’t Eventually Learn
There are certain questions about the show that I’m very befuddled by like, ‘What is the Island?’ or ‘What do the numbers mean?’ We’re going to be explaining a little more about the numbers, maybe significantly more about the numbers, but what do you mean by ‘What do the numbers mean?’ What is a potential answer to that question? I feel like you have to be very careful about entering into Midi-Chlorian territory. I grew up on Star Wars; I’ve seen the Star Wars movies hundreds of times; I can recite them chapter and verse, and never once did anyone ever say to me or did it occur to me to say, ‘What is the Force, exactly? Can you explain that for me, better than Alec Guinness does?’ I understand, ‘When are we going to find out about Libby?’ That’s a very finite question. ‘Who is Jacob?’ OK, yes, we’ve been talking to this guy named Jacob, so those questions then should have answers, but ‘What is the Island?’ That starts to get into ‘What is the Force?’ It is a place. I can’t explain to you why it moves through space-time—it just does. You have to accept the fact that it does.”

On Why Fans Will Be Displeased With Next Season
“There isn’t a perfect way to end the show, but the end inevitably approaches, and so the show has to start answering more and more questions. To me, the greatest thing about Lost, just in terms of writing it, was that [over the years] the show could ask a question, and everyone [watching] could say ‘Here’s what I think the answer to that is.’ And next year we’re basically going to spend the entire season telling you you’re wrong. ‘Here’s the actual answer to that question.’ And you’re going to say, ‘S–t, my answer was actually much better!’

On What His Favorite Series Finale of All Time Is
M*A*S*H*

On Whether There Will Be a Sopranos “Cut To Black” Ending
“All of the character resolutions will be very defined. There is going to be no cut to black. The show for me and Carlton [Cuse] and J.J. [Abrams] and all the people writing it—it’s not about the Island. The Island is where it takes place. It’s about this group of people who crashed on the Island on Sept. 22, 2004 and how they influenced the history of the Island in some ways and had a very significant and pivotal role to play there. You’re going to see that role play out, and their fates will all be resolved by the end of the series—that’s the story that we’re telling. In terms of every little bit of minutiae about the Island itself…There will be questions [left unanswered] after the show [ends].”

Will Libby Ever Be Explained
“I have learned that if you kill someone off the show, they are less likely to cooperate with you.” Basically, Cynthia Watros is busy until further notice, and they can’t explain Libby without her, at least not in any way that shows her story rather than annoyingly tells her story.

What Are The Numbers
“Here’s the story with numbers. The Hanso Foundation that started the Dharma Initiative hired this guy Valenzetti to basically work on this equation to determine what was the probability of the world ending in the wake of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Valenzetti basically deduced that it was 100 percent within the next 27 years, so the Hanso Foundation started the Dharma Initiative in an effort to try to change the variables in the equation so that mankind wouldn’t wipe it itself out.” This information, in more convoluted form, was leaked out via the online games rather than explained on the show itself, said Damon, because, “That would be the worst thing ever. We have to make the show for the hard-core fans who care about the numbers, but we also have to make it for my mom, who just wants Sawyer to take his shirt off.”

The Bottom Line
“At the end of the day, you can do anything you want [as a storyteller] so long as it’s cool.”

 

[SSC_Nerd]

Great finale.

Don't know if this was brought up yet, but who was the guy that played Jacob? He looked awfully familiar for some reason, but I can't place the face.

 

[316what]

Great finale.

Don't know if this was brought up yet, but who was the guy that played Jacob? He looked awfully familiar for some reason, but I can't place the face.

Rita's ex-husband from Dexter.

 

[Moonloop]

I really question the importance of John Locke now--he's really just dead after all and not the big leader with a special purpose. In fact, I think he was just being used. It was Esau (or whatever his name is) masquerading as post "resurrection" Locke that told Richard that Locke was going to have to die, and Richard didn't see through the trick and passed this information on to real Locke, who had enough faith that he did go ahead with the plan. So Richard never saw the evidence of leadership in Locke's life during his scouting missions--because I think Ben was truly the leader that the Island needed and Locke's "calling" or "purpose" was a hoax. He was just being used.

Same here. The way I see it now, John Locke is dead. And Esau is using his form as a disguise to make those around him believe and trust who he is. If Locke's character truly is dead, then he character seemed useless to lead up to this.

I do buy the idea that if Jacob is 'Killed' that he will become more powerful than you can imagine. With his new powerful self I could somehow see Jacob reviving Locke again and the real Locke playing a very important part in the war.

 

[YoNoSe]

Huh. It is possible that John Locke's entire "purpose" has been engineered by Other Guy ever since the smoke monster detected that Locke would have faith.
Good thinkin' there tomandshell - I didn't even realize it was FakeLocke who sent Richard out of the bushes to wounded-Locke in the plane until now.
It's all a sham! It's people! Soylent Green is the Variables!

 

[YoNoSe]

So is it also possible that whatever was living in the cabin was not Jacob at all, but Other Guy? He asked Ben directly about that incident and knew that Ben couldn't really see anyone there.

 

[Moonloop]

Also, if John Locke is not John Locke.....if it is Esau taking the form of Locke then Esau has also obtained all of John Locke's memories.

Also during the recap before the finale, the writers are referring to Locke as Locke....I don't know if they are trying to keep things under wraps or if they are telling us that Locke is still Locke but he has somehow been reborn or possessed; but Locke is still in there. But the mystery still is, if the living Locke is indeed the real Locke in some way....then why are there two Locke bodies on the island?

It's almost as if Locke is sharing the body and soul with Mr. X.

 

[LOTRFan]

I think it is safe to say that all those begging for answers regarding the statue with the four toes are satisfied now ....

 

[YoNoSe]

I think it is safe to say that all those begging for answers regarding the statue with the four toes are satisfied now ....

Which brings up another question - does Jacob have so many children he doesn't know what to do?

 

[Agent0028]

I have to say I really thought the four toed statue would turn out to be one of the unanswered questions. I didn't think it would really amount to anything even if there was an answer to it. Seeing it play a significant part of the story four (?) seasons later was a nice surprise.

I'm also glad I've never watched Dexter because it was nice not figuring out the guy was Jacob until he visited Locke. Then it fell into place. Although I would have been even better if I was still suspecting Locke to be Jacob.

 

[316what]

Obi Wan to the LOSTies: this is not the John Locke you are looking for.

 

[Kuzeh]

Great finale!!
I forsaw Juliette's death when they started arguing in the Sub...
Some things felt a bit rushed, and so many questions to be answered next year...
I too believe that they all will be re-united in the "present"...

 

[SwedishHeat]

What if Juliet is the Smoke Monster?? She was wrapped up in chains, and the mechanical sound that held up the drill is the same sound we hear when the monster appears, and it sounds like chains unraveling or at least spinning when Locke was grabbed, and pulled through the jungle.

Perhaps Juliet becomes a vengeful spirit in the future??

 

[FlyAndFight]

The below theories are quite interesting. I picked them up online:

Excerpt from a longer article regarding last night's episode by By Jeff Jensen, "Lost Recap":


You will notice that all the Dharma pastaways who were at ground zero of the Swan/Jughead event last night got visited by Jacob — except Juliet and Miles (who got no flashback at all). That’s significant, I think. Which brings me to my Quibbling Jacob Theory. There are two ways to explain this: the Perry Cuomo way, and the way that hurts your head. We shall do both:

1. THE PERRY CUOMO WAY- Back in the episode “Whatever Happened, Happened,” we heard Kate sing the song “Catch a Falling Star” to Baby Aaron. The lyrics that Lost gave us were these: “Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket/never let it fade away.” Think of stars as the souls of the Jughead-obliterated castaways falling into oblivion — and think of Jacob as the catcher, gathering them and putting them back in orbit so they live once more. More precisely, what Jacob was doing...oh, wait. I promised to hurt you, didn’t I?

2. THE HURT YOUR HEAD WAY- As it happens, Flannery O’Connor’s aforementioned book takes its title — Everything That Rises Must Converge — from a phrase coined by an egghead and fellow Catholic provocateur named Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, who concocted a theory of evolution called “Omega Point.” Basically, it’s the idea that there is some kind of transcendent entity or consciousness that is guiding everyone and everything toward greater complexity and enlightenment, until everyone and everything becomes transcendent, too. I think. More simply, it’s Jacob’s view: There is a single end; everything before then is progress. Chardin believed his Omega entity was basically Jesus Christ himself. His phrase, “everything that rises must converge,” is a poetical expression of a key Christian idea known in the Greek apokatastasis. It’s like the opposite of apocalypse, or rather, what comes after apocalypse. I’m not trying to get all religious on you, but it is what it is: apokatastasis is the idea that in the end, Satan will be defeated and that all of creation will be redeemed and unified under Christ. “Now is the judgment of the world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself.” (John 12:31-32) Or, again, to use a line from the show: “He who will save us all.” That, my friends, is the answer, translated from Richard Alpert’s Latin, to Ilana’s riddle: “What lies in the shadow of the statue?’

CONCLUSION Jacob was “quibbling” during his flashbacks; he was building loopholes and failsafe devices into each castaway’s life that will allow them to cheat death by Jughead. By physically touching each of them, he marked them in a magical way. And now, he’s going to draw them to himself, i.e., the Island, just like the electromagnetic anomaly at the Swan site started drawing anything metal into is powerful singularity. Perhaps they will all be immediately beamed to the Island in reincarnated bodies. (The promo for next season seemed to imply as much, what with Jack’s eye shooting open and reflecting back the jungle.) Or maybe it will be like this: the souls of the annihilated castaways will migrate into their bodies at the point in time that Jacob touched them. And more, I’ll bet you that they will retain all the memories of their past lives. Which means, for example, that Young James Ford will have knowledge of his fate — and can choose to try to change it, if he wishes. This is part of the great gift Jacob has given them: Not only new life, but the capacity to create their own destinies — a destiny which could include, if they wish, to go to the Island of their own free will. And they will. Remember Jacob’s last, bloody sputter: “They’re coming.”

MY ALTERNATIVE JACOB-FLASHBACK THEORY It’s the Harry Potter/Horcrux idea. Also see: Spock downloading his mind into McCoy in the second Star Trek movie. Jacob was imbuing each of the castaways with the essence of himself or parts of his soul. Now that he’s been gutted and his life is imperiled, he’s going to summon the castaways to the present to collect his missing pieces to heal himself.

 

[Darth Caedus]

Just re-watched. The conversation Jacob and other guy (Esau) have is very telling. Jacob brought the Black Rock to the island, in some manner, to prove other guy wrong, a wager, about human nature. "They come, they fight, destroy, corrupt. It always ends the same." "It only ends once," Jacob says. Obviously this process has played out several times before. The Losties either end this cycle or cause it to repeat back upon itself like a ouroboros.

I bet the Egyptian tapestry Jacob weaves at the beginning that they never fully reveal has some significance. Since there is an Taweret statue, for Jacob, I bet there is also an Anubis statue for the other guy. The tapestry prolly depicts both.

I got a very Thor/Loki like relationship from the Conversation at the very beginning. Seems like Jacob has a love for mankind and will root for them to no end; while "Esua" has disdain for them and wants to prove Jacob that he is stupid for believing in them.

Anyone once think that the "strings" Jacob was weaving fits into the Greek Myth that all lives are predetermined on strings, and that if you cut the string the person dies. Maybe that's how Jacob could have gone back to the past of the Losties' lives. He would just go down the string.

I enjoyed the finale very much. Pretty much everything that I am thiking has already been said. We too called Locke's body as the contents of the crate.

I am also asuming that the smoke monster works for Esau and revealed itself to Ben in the form of Alex to manipulate him...

Even though it appears that Jacob is dead I have a feeling that he was one step ahead of everybody.

We also got to see Dr. Hanso's hand get jacked up... I am still under the impression that whatever happend, happend. I am not sure how the bomb going off fits into that so I will just have to wait and see...

I think the smoke monster protects Esau from Jacob. The smoke monster surrounded the temple and underneath the temple was where all the Anubis mythos paintings were.

So it seems that the entire series, plus the past that includes Ben, has been manipulated by Esau. And I thought BEN was a master manipulator There was something preventing Esau from killing Jacob, maybe vice-versa, and the loop-hole was for Jacob to get killed, but for someone else to do it. I love it.


But here's a question. Jacob "dies" at the end and the hydrogen bomb goes off. If the hydrogen bomb goes off, then the hatch wasn't made, it was destroyed. If the hatch wasn't built, then the losties' plane does crash and "locke" was never on the island and never able to lead ben in to kill jacob. So Esau is never able to finially kill Jacob. If Jacob is able to go back and forth through the lives of the losties' he would know that they will detonate the bomb. he would know that at the time of the bomb detonation, he would be saved from "death". Jacob seemed like a pacifist, since he didn't defend himself, so perhaps he was one step ahead of Esau and let it play out. So if the bomb worked, he would be saved yes?

That's assuming the bomb actually goes off. What happens if the bomb, like Faraday said, just absorbed or negated all that energy. The energy plus the bomb just made the ground inert and normal. They would be stuck in the 70s and jacob would still be dead. That just doesn't sound like it would happen for this show.

I'm probably rambling, but my brain hurts



Just thought of another thing, Miles was kidnapped by Jacob's "people" before he went to the island, why was that? What did he do that had Jacob not want him to come to the island?

 

[Rock83]

What if Juliet is the Smoke Monster?? She was wrapped up in chains, and the mechanical sound that held up the drill is the same sound we hear when the monster appears, and it sounds like chains unraveling or at least spinning when Locke was grabbed, and pulled through the jungle.

Perhaps Juliet becomes a vengeful spirit in the future??

Funny you mention that,check this clip:

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